You guys that have take bears with calibers from .375 H/H and up to .458.. .500??
What bullets/loads?
How far does the bear go after being hit? If not the cns are hit? just body shots..
How do they react? Have any one seen a bear going down at once and not come up agian?
Please tell me all your storys
//Overkill

I just returned from bear camp on the AK penninsula.

Of the three bear hunters in my camp two were shooting .375 ultra mags. The two bears shot with thease .375's required several shots each. the first one took five from the .375 and one from my .338. The second took 5 shots with his .375.
The last hunter took his bear with a 416 rem and that one went down with one shot. Somtimes you get lucky but most of the time you will need to take fallow up shots. You should go into a hunt prepared to keep the lead flying.

3 of us went 2 years ago.

One was shot with a 338 Win Mag shot his 5 times

One was shot with a 375 Weatherby once.

I shot mine with a 404 jeff 400 grain Swift A frame 2350 fps. The first shot (heart/lung) it started running and was headed for an alder thicket so I shot it again and stopped it. First shot would have killed it but did not want to go into the alders unless we had to.

BigB

What's a good 375 caliber bullet for the brownies? I need to work up some handloads for 375 Ruger and could use some advice.
Thanks

Any decent 270-300gr bullet, nosler partition, swift aframe, Barnes TSX, Northfork, kodiak bonded, are all good choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
You guys that have take bears with calibers from .375 H/H and up to .458.. .500??
What bullets/loads?
How far does the bear go after being hit? If not the cns are hit? just body shots..
How do they react? Have any one seen a bear going down at once and not come up agian?
Please tell me all your storys
//Overkill

Somebody who know?

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
I just returned from bear camp on the AK penninsula.

Of the three bear hunters in my camp two were shooting .375 ultra mags. The two bears shot with thease .375's required several shots each. the first one took five from the .375 and one from my .338. The second took 5 shots with his .375.
The last hunter took his bear with a 416 rem and that one went down with one shot. Somtimes you get lucky but most of the time you will need to take fallow up shots. You should go into a hunt prepared to keep the lead flying.

Wow! those bears sure took a lot of killing. I have to wonder though, WHY? Bears can be terribly tenacious but 5+ hits from a 375 RUM seems pretty excessive. I have to wonder what the shot placement was like. Also what loads were they using. Was it bullet failure? I have heard the barnes 300gr TSX has had some expansion problems. Its not uncommon for a bear to take a couple of shot, usually one good hit and then another as the bear makes a dash for some cover but 5.

Bear

That is a very good question and much of it has to do with me.

I always coach my hunters in making that first shot perfect. After that follow up shots should be as good as possible but if all you have is a shot at the hind end after it's allready wounded then take that shot as well while waiting for a better shot to present it's self. I know some woulden't agree with this but I've seen to many bears take a good hit and go into the alders never presenting another ideal shot.

Most of the time these bears would have died from the first shot but a little insurance won't hurt.

The bullets they used were Remington cor-locks and of the three we recovred they all seemed perfect. I don't remember the weight but I'm sure they were ether 270 or 300 gr.

I was backing up a buddy, he shot with a 300 win about 60yds behind the shoulder, the bear bolted like a rocket for the brush, i shot and hit behind the shoulder about 6 inches farther back than i wanted. 416 rem mag 400gr factory swift A frame stopped him right there all 4 feet strait up in the air, flipped him upside down.this one squared 7' 11" 22+ skull . got charged shot about 12 ft from me quartering as it turned toward me aroun some brush full run, was dead when it hit the ground. shot was behind shoulder went clean tru and shot back foot off 416 rem mag 400gr factory squared 7' 4" 22+ skull. a 416 rem will get full velocity with very short bbl 18-- 20 inches with factory loads. snuck up on a big black bear, had open sighted 375 H+H it jumped up about 10 ft away i shot it right in the chest 300 gr silvertip, it took off so fast all i could see was a blur at first i was puzzled how it could move so fast wondered if some how i missed, it made a big circle bawling and going on for a couple minutes i finally got another shot but didnt need it

I have read some of the old books with tails of the Kodiak bear hunters hitting a charging 10 ft. bear with the 375 H&H, 13 times before dropping it at 15 yards. I don’t know about shot placement in this instance. The first round fired at 150 yards and three hunters in the party fired a total of 13 rounds before bring down the bear. They fired at every open shot as the bear charged from 150 yards.

Now my wife killed a 7.5 ft. brown bear a few years ago with a 308 cal. 150 gr. round at 35 yards with one shot. Go figure… Now she hit it in the spine and dropped it like a stone. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement….

""have read some of the old books with tails of the Kodiak bear hunters hitting a charging 10 ft. bear with the 375 H&H, 13 times before dropping it at 15 yards. I don’t know about shot placement in this instance. The first round fired at 150 yards and three hunters in the party fired a total of 13 rounds before bring down the bear. They fired at every open shot as the bear charged from 150 yards.

Now my wife killed a 7.5 ft. brown bear a few years ago with a 308 cal. 150 gr. round at 35 yards with one shot. Go figure… Now she hit it in the spine and dropped it like a stone. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement….""

Becasue I hunt with a dog.. the shot distance will be from 2-3 yards to 30 yards.
Then it is best to hot the spine or brain? Or you could have a big brownie over you
I use a .460 Wby with 500 grainers.
//Overkill

quote:

he shot with a 300 win about 60yds behind the shoulder

60 yards behind the front shoulder thats a big friggin bear

....Have killed a number of them with 416+ 458 rifles at ranges 10 yrds-25 yrds. The much malighned , stubby little 458 win mag . just kills them right now ... mostly Bang Flops . . It just immediatly takes thier life away from them and they are usually dead at the speed of gravity .....The 416 is the same ,, but I,ve used the 458 more than the 416 .s .. my prefered loads in the 458 are 300 gr X @ 2700 fps mv . 350 X mv 2500 fps. and 400 gr X or Kodiak Bonded Core , mv 2380 fps ...A friend who guides Brown Bear Hunters out of Hoonah has had great success with the 416 Taylor , 350 gr Speer Mag tips and 350 X bullets @ 2350 fps ..to the point of knocking 9' 2" sq bears off their feet and upside down after being wounded by clients 300 mags.........Aiming for and hitting the spine of a moveing bear is probably much more luck than skill for 98% of the people who will EVER read these words....And if anyone wants to trust luck with their bear shooting , heck just use a 22 Hornet .....I Very Sincerly hope we don,t get into some big battle with this thread about apropriate cartridges for bear stopping as opposed to the man wounders ..... My personel real life experience has been that the 416 and 458 usually knock a bear off his feet and most times kill them right then ......I know some people haven,t had as instantanious a result as I mostly have with the large bores ,,, but the evidence is in great favor for them .... The 375 H&H was the Alaska standard guides rifle for along time and and works simularly if not as dramaticly always... The book in refrence to the 13 shots is probably The Last of The Great Brown Bear Men ...I know they , P&T had some problems with the 300 gr SilverTip factory load.... I know of a few Bang Flops from the 375 RUM this year alone...

i always used a 375 with 300 gr partitions. only bang flop i ever got was when i hit one in the head. i do remember one time however when a guy shot 11 times with a 06 and we lost the bear. he wasn't a very good shot, but at least 3 rounds hit the chest. once their adrenaline gets up they can be kinda tough

quote:

....Have killed a number of them with 416+ 458 rifles at ranges 10 yrds-25 yrds. The much malighned , stubby little 458 win mag . just kills them right now ... mostly Bang Flops . . It just immediatly takes thier life away from them and they are usually dead at the speed of gravity .....The 416 is the same ,, but I,ve used the 458 more than the 416 .s .. my prefered loads in the 458 are 300 gr X @ 2700 fps mv . 350 X mv 2500 fps. and 400 gr X or Kodiak Bonded Core , mv 2380 fps ...A friend who guides Brown Bear Hunters out of Hoonah has had great success with the 416 Taylor , 350 gr Speer Mag tips and 350 X bullets @ 2350 fps ..to the point of knocking 9' 2" sq bears off their feet and upside down after being wounded by clients 300 mags.........

I think thats it is the real true.. I have use the .460 Wby on serval moose. And they have not get up atter the first hit...
I just dont know more about the brown bears that we have in our country.. and were I hunt, There IS A LOT OF THEM!
gumboat458 PLEASE tell me more about the brownies!
//OK

I'm starting to get an itch to try my .458 out on a brown bear. Nearly all of the bear hunts I've guided over the last 28 years I've carried a 375 or .338. When a backup shot was needed they've never faild me.

When you look at the knetic energy of a .375 handload giving you 4700 foot pounds at the muzzle its realy not that far behind a .458 @ 5200. Thats less than 10%. I have been curious over the years how much actuall killing power that big 500 gr. bullet in the .458 has compared to the .375's 300 gr. Especially on medium/large game like moose and brown bear.

The only test I've made on this has been in Africa. The most dramatic result was on a Kudu.
It was broadside at about 80 yards. The kudu dropped like it got knocked over with a wrecking ball. The first thought in my head was "my .375 wouldn't have done THAT".

If you want to see what a 416 will do to a brown bear watch expidition safari on versus network on 10/26 10/27 10/31 and 11/2. We filmed this hunt early this fall and Mike was useing a Sako 416 Rem.

Brown bear hunt Alaska Peninsula - Fall 2007.

I shot this 8.6 brown through both lungs & heart and broke his left shoulder by exit of the bullet. The bear tumbled of the bank in the water, he was spinning around, then came back up and was trying to get back up the bank, I shot him two more times in the spine and it was all over.

Amazing after skinning, I put my hand in the wound of the first shot, the heart was entirely mush. The whole killing was done in less than 10 seconds still after taken heart and lungs out he tried to get away, tough they are.

If you want to nail one on the spot, brainstem or spine. There is no substitute for shot placement (Never).

Rifle: 375 H&H – Ammo Federal Premium 260 Grain Accubond – 2700 Fps – Nosler Accubond performed flawlessly.


Roland

...Overkill;;;;; if you have a 460 you don,t need any advice from me execpt, {GO KILL SOME BEARS !!!!!!!! } If you can hit a moose with it , you can surley hit a bear with it....I,de like to make up a 460 and I may,, But I was thinking about a 475 A&M today ,, That would be a dandy fine large bore ..Say a 20 " barrel with a Vias Muzzel Brake on a Ruger rigby size action ...I bet RIP has already had one , seems he has had every good gun a guy can think up ...Any way .... It would be easy to find cheap blastin bullets for it and I think the 500 gr Swift bullet they use in the 470 Mbogo should be about ideal for Major trauma and exit, from any angle , no matter how big the bear.....If I had a bear that I had to kill at long range ,say 300 yrds I would want a 416,with a 350-300 gr bullet going real fast or a real fast 375 with a 300 gr BT bullet going even faster.....For the 10 yrd and closer bears that intense velocity isn,t necessary ,, BUT if you are useing a good bullet it sure makes a huge hole....That,s always nice ......And as always this is just my humble opinion.. ;;;;;

Wow I had no idea that those bears were that hard to bring down.I have killed quite a few black bears here in Wi. with my Bow and a 357 Mag revolver.The largest was a tad under 500 lbs.I never thought any of them went down extremely hard.I know we are talking two differnt animals here,but am still amazed how much tougher the browns and grizzleys are.I will have to rethink calibers if I ever get the chance to hunt them!!!!!

Had a pard shoot a 9'6" brown bear at 150 yards with his 458 Win Mag using open sights, when the bullet hit it he bowled that bear over like he'd been hit by a mac truck. One shot did the trick. Just recently I had another buddy shoot a 9'3" brownie with a 416 Rem, took him 3 shoots to kill it as it came at him. Those big brown bears can be hard to kill, thats for sure. I'll be hunting brown bear practically in my back yard next spring and i'll be using my M70 375 H&H with 300 grain Nosler Partitions and a Leupy Vari-X II 2x7x32. Gumboot's got it right, go big or go home!

quote:

Originally posted by M70Nut:.....
I'll be hunting brown bear practically in my back yard next spring and i'll be using my M70 375 H&H with 300 grain Nosler Partitions....

I have 4 boxes of the 300 gr Nosler Partitions headed my way for loading some 375 Ruger cartridges. A colleague at work who is an experienced big game hunter said that NPs are not the best choice for brown bear. He recommended the Swift A-Frame.

What do the experienced brown bear hunters have to say about that?

Where are all the 30-06 and 270 Alaska hunters.I think the 338 win mag is the smallest gun that should be carried in Alaska with 250 gr bullets at that.My bear guns are all 416 rem mags with 410 gr woodleighs.I have a friend who changed from barnes x bullets to the woodleighs because of a bear chargethat took 3 shots from a 416 taylor with 400 gr x bullets.I like the 350 speer mag tip also.I think a 458 or 416 rem mag is the best bear gun in the thickets.I think the 416 would be my choice if I had to shoot a bear at 200 yards .My taxidermist killed a 10'4" bear that took 3 .375 H&H 300 gr partitions in the shoulder before it droped.He said he would use at least a 416 rem mag or bigger next time.Bears are very tough to kill on a charge like stopping a tank at times.They also will bite after they are dead on their feet.

.......DGR 416 ..Lets not get that brew ha ha started this winter...If any one remembers that spring bear hunt with Max Schwab , and how many shots it took from his 375 ,, .,. That is not uncommon...I know of a few bear on the Penninsula and in southeast that were lost after being hit not terribly off by 416 Rem mags with 400 gr Swift factory ammo.....But I know of ALOT more that were killed instantaineously with that load.... It,s kind of a ,,go figure...I know the 338 win mag w/ 230 Fail Safes works well ... Most people can shoot thier 338,s well and I think that helps alot..Slatts ,., Nothing wrong with the 300 Part. but I think the Swift a better bullet.. Still my 375 Ruger may never see a 300 gr bullet... I vastly prefer the 270 gr . Essespecially the Trip Shok . and I,de like to try the GS ,HV.....An old guide told me one time that for a guides rifle you should be able to get 5 feet of penetration thru a bear from ANY ANGLE.. I don,t know if the 300 Partitions will do that , but alot of bears have been killed with the 300 gr Nosler Partion in 375,???

Would you consider yourself undergunned with a DR in 9.3x74?

Anyone out there used this combo on the Big Bears?

AzGuy, The 9.3x62 with 286 Partitions is a great rifle for big bears and there is no reason that a 9.3x72 DR wouldn't be just as good - and in certain situations even better.

I'm considering using my 30-378 for my upcoming brownie hunt. Any thoughts on this caliber and what type of lead? I'd rather not have to borrow or purchase another gun and the guide seems to think its more than adequate.

The 30-378 is designed and excells as a long range cartridge, which bear hunting is not.
With the super premium, tough bullets however it will work very well. I would prefer something over 180 grains in either TSX, North Fork or Swift.

quote:

Originally posted by darkside:
I'm considering using my 30-378 for my upcoming brownie hunt. Any thoughts on this caliber and what type of lead? I'd rather not have to borrow or purchase another gun and the guide seems to think its more than adequate.

There is an article in the Spring 2002 issue of Hunting Illustrated that a man wrote that got his brown bear with a .30-378. He used a 180gr Barnes X bullet and he had the rifle sighted in for 350 yards. The bear took 3 hits and was 10 foot 7 inches and 29 3/16 B&C

If you are interested I can try to scan the article or pm it to you. I would say the 30-378 will be fine, but I would go with handloads with Northfork bullets. Especially after seeing all of the TSX and other barnes bullets failing on large game in some of the other threads on here.

Justin

..When or how did a Barnes X or 3 X fail..???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Check the Africa section, I don't remember which thread it was as we have tons of forum members here on AR

There were some early problems with Barnes X bulets that failed to open but that is a lot better problem than coming apart - which is how most other bullets fail.
The barnes TSX bullets come as close to 100% reliability as any other bullet made. Just because someone wrote that they once had a failure some time ago doesn't hold much weight with me unless I know all the details - especially if it contradicts virtually all of my exeriences and those of thousands of others.
In my opinion the TSX bullet is one of the very best bullets avaliable for use on dangrous game and esecially the big bears.

Guys,

I have to agree with Phil. The last 20 animals I've killed have been with the TSX in 375 and 308 caliber. Bullet performance has been consisently good with a total of 3 recovered bullets. Accuracy has been amazing and all my rifles so far like or prefer the TSX. Also the bore fouling of the previous X bullet has been vitually eliminated.

Mark

Phil - Here is the link

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/478106047

The last few pictures, but you may as well read the story to figure out all that happened

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The 30-378 is designed and excells as a long range cartridge, which bear hunting is not.
With the super premium, tough bullets however it will work very well. I would prefer something over 180 grains in either TSX, North Fork or Swift.

Phil:

There is a 200 gr. N.P. available factory loaded from Weatherby.

I had a friend who took his early off the line, 1997 .30-378 with zeiss high powered (3-12x?) scope B.B. hunting on the Penninsula when they first came out. I thought it was a lousy choice. To me, this is a longe range elk cartridge, not a B.B. caliber.

He did not get a bear and later sold the gun as he could not hit anything with it, due to recoil. He did get one thing with it, scope nose. l.o.l.

........Not that there arn,t gobs of bullets available today that we could only hope to have 20-25 years ago.... But where heavy and dangerous game is concerned penitration , and straight penitration is the most important feature along with relative accuracy ...I have never had an X bullet fail and most were very accurate in my rifles ...The ones that wern,t were related to twist , not bullet construction ...ie a 185 gr X @ 3250 fps from my Ruger 338 win mag....2 1/2 " groups .. the 200 gr X would only print 1 1/2 " groups where as 275 and 300 gr bullets would print 1/2" and 9/16 - 5/8 " groups constantly ...The 250 gr X was very accurate as well in my Ruger 338s..

Until the Nosler Partition fails to kill like it always has in the past I will continue to use it and will do so on my brown bear hunt. I hear lots of people raving about the Barnes X bullets but have never tried them myself and probably won't since the NP has always done it's job quite efficiently.

quote:

Originally posted by M70Nut:
Until the Nosler Partition fails to kill like it always has in the past I will continue to use it and will do so on my brown bear hunt.....the NP has always done it's job quite efficiently.

I'm with you. I've never had a negative experience with a Partition. They've delivered on all game big and small for me.

Now that I think about it, I've rarely if ever heard of NPs falling short of their intended purpose. I suspect that there are some negative Partition stories out there; statistically there must be some negative experiences given how many have been used in the past. However, I hear people say that the Partition has never ever let them down.

My 338-378 Weatherby has shot .25" groups at 100 yards with 250 gr partitions.If I hunted coastal bears I would take my stainless model 700 416 rem mag with 410 gr woodleigh bullets.I love the 338-378 for long range but I have a 6.5x 20 power nikon on it not good for up close bears.I usually take my 416 Rem mag one of them and keep it in the tent also for up close and personal bears.I think the 458 would be just fine for bears in the bush or tent also.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The 30-378 is designed and excells as a long range cartridge, which bear hunting is not.
With the super premium, tough bullets however it will work very well. I would prefer something over 180 grains in either TSX, North Fork or Swift.

Does this mean that the 300 Win Mag would also work (provided that you'd use real good bullets of course), or do you draw the line there somewhere around the 30-378?

Not trying to start any debate, just curious as it will be the biggest boomer in my posession shortly.

I guess that if one were to go on a hunting trip specifically for really big bear then it would be a good idea to invest in a 375 barrel for the Blaser.

The 300 Win mag with good bullets works just fine on big bears. So does the 30-06. My personal back up rifle for years was an old FN 30-06 using 200 gr Partitions and I killed a number of big bears with it.
If you pay close attention to stories of big bears either getting away or taking multiple hits you will notice a common theme - which is the shooter was using a big bore that they were afraid of.
Bore size is no substitute for bullet placement - nor bullet weight a substitute for bullet performance.

In my opinion the best calibers for hunting the big bears start with cartridges like the 338 Win. 35 Whelen & 9.3x62 and go up to the 375 H&H ( and new Ruger )
The 416's and larger kill well but unfortunately usually work better than their shooters. Which relults in PPS ( piss poor shooting) and wounded bears.