Is the 10mm an adequate caliber choice for a sidearm (backup) when hunting black bear? What bullets or factory loads are good ones?

Thanks, Dirk

Personally I would say yes, and the bullets that I would use would be the flat nosed full metal jackets or the Hornady XTP both in 180 grain.
With that all said, I have never shot a black bear with a 10mm, but with my experiance with a 10 I would not hesitate if the opportunity presented itself.
Now with that said I still think that there are better choices, a model 29 in 44 mag, or a double action 41 mag would be my pistol of choice.
Just one thing to think about for a defensive pistol, if you ever were really in it and had one on you, if you shove a Glocks barrel into their hide and pull the trigger, it ain't going to go off.
It will shove the slide back and nothing works, where a double action revolver it makes no difference.
What are the odds of that situation happening? well you did say defensive pistol..

Dirk,

Take a look at doubletapammo.com They specialize in hot and heavy 10mm ammo.

I am not a fan of 10mm for any reason. I don't like plastic pistols either. Give me a nice 29 in 44 mag.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Is the 10mm an adequate caliber choice for a sidearm (backup) when hunting black bear? What bullets or factory loads are good ones?

Thanks, Dirk

No.

The 10mm is definately up to the challenge of any black bear and probably as good for any bear as any other handgun. 220gr FMJ will penetrate very well and can be hot rodded pretty good in the glock, especially with a good aftermarket barrel with a fully supported case. It is also as good or better than any 44 wheelgun, and this coming from a guy who regularly carries a 4 629 while hunting and fishing. 15 rounds controlable and in a hurry sound pretty good.

I used to shoot a custom double stack 1911 in 10mm for pin shooting and have taken a couple large whitetails with one, it will definatly do a number on any blackbear with quality bullets. I would say its on par with a 357 mag maybe a little big better. THe 41 mag wouldn't be that much more power.

This could be a good choice

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.p...1_25&products_id=105

Definitely.

If I had a Glock 10 mm, and I did not want to buy another pistol, then I would use it.

However I much prefer a revolver for protection from 4 legged animals.

This has been discussed a lot, research some previous posts.

Also take a look at Buffalo Bore 1mm ammo.

Also read what they say about the recoil spring weight with the higher power loads.

Those of us that shot HOT loads in our 45 ACP's back in the 70's knew this, we used 20 to 24+ lb recoil springs.

Yes, it certainley is. I have gone both ways, M29 and Glock 10mm. My final decision is the Glock. In fact, a pair of them. I use the heaviest bullet available and have spare mags in duffle bag.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
The 10mm is definately up to the challenge of any black bear and probably as good for any bear as any other handgun. 220gr FMJ will penetrate very well and can be hot rodded pretty good in the glock, especially with a good aftermarket barrel with a fully supported case. It is also as good or better than any 44 wheelgun, and this coming from a guy who regularly carries a 4 629 while hunting and fishing. 15 rounds controlable and in a hurry sound pretty good.

I used to shoot a custom double stack 1911 in 10mm for pin shooting and have taken a couple large whitetails with one, it will definatly do a number on any blackbear with quality bullets. I would say its on par with a 357 mag maybe a little big better. THe 41 mag wouldn't be that much more power.

According to JD Jones (and me) you can load the 10mm as hot as you want but it'll never be a .41Magnum. I'm not speaking from my hat either. I've got four 10mm pistols. They're as close to a .41Magnum you can come in a PACKABLE semi-auto as you can get. That said, I'd rather hunt black bear with a 220gr.WFNGC at @1500fps or 250grWFNGC at 1450fps. If I need to go larger...that starts at .475Linebaugh.

A number of years ago a friend of my wifes killed a DLP brown bear near skilak lake with a 10mm. It took the whole mag but it dropped the sow.

Sometimes bears just dont know when they are dead, I'd prefer something much bigger and in a revolver.

More info:
I already have a Ruger Alaskan in 44mag and load it with Corbon 305 grain FMJ bullets I believe it to be overkill (in black bear country) and it weighs 41oz's empty. I just need a good carry gun for outings in Colorado and the 10mm is a good penetrator with the right bullets and put in the right place should do the job. Checking to see if some have heard (like the last post) that it was able to do the job.

Thanks, Dirk

Dirk, I dont even know the full story of my wifes friend, ie: number of shots hit, kill shots, etc. I dont even think he knows for sure, but I'm sure he has an idea.

He and his family where lucky. when the bear dropped his slide was locked back. he was empty.

.. Dirk , a friend of mine on POW was charged by a 250 lb [ approx ] weight black bear ,,, He had to shoot it like 5 times as I remember to stop it , [with his 30/06 180 gr bullets] . the bear died about 20 feet from him ....at least 3 shots were in the thoracic cavity ..... A 44 mag is definitely NOT overkill for a black bear ......... I think a Glock 10 , or about any other 10 mm pistol isn,t bad , and I do recomend them to some friends who ask , but a 44 mag will never be overkill for a black bear ....

It,s like , since men have killed elephant with a 256 Mannlicher , would the 458 Win mag be overkill ...... Not according to most elephant hunters ...

quote:

Originally posted by JOE MACK:

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
The 10mm is definately up to the challenge of any black bear and probably as good for any bear as any other handgun. 220gr FMJ will penetrate very well and can be hot rodded pretty good in the glock, especially with a good aftermarket barrel with a fully supported case. It is also as good or better than any 44 wheelgun, and this coming from a guy who regularly carries a 4 629 while hunting and fishing. 15 rounds controlable and in a hurry sound pretty good.

I used to shoot a custom double stack 1911 in 10mm for pin shooting and have taken a couple large whitetails with one, it will definatly do a number on any blackbear with quality bullets. I would say its on par with a 357 mag maybe a little big better. THe 41 mag wouldn't be that much more power.

According to JD Jones (and me) you can load the 10mm as hot as you want but it'll never be a .41Magnum. I'm not speaking from my hat either. I've got four 10mm pistols. They're as close to a .41Magnum you can come in a PACKABLE semi-auto as you can get. That said, I'd rather hunt black bear with a 220gr.WFNGC at @1500fps or 250grWFNGC at 1450fps. If I need to go larger...that starts at .475Linebaugh.

As you can see I even stated that the 41 mag was more power, just not that much more. 220s at 1300 vs 220s at 1500 isn't that big a difference and I have serious doubts that any bear could tell you the difference in what was hitting it.

I'm pretty sure that backup was the original intention of this post not what gun he would use to hunt for bears. hell if a dedicated hunting handgun was the goal I'm sure most everyone would shoot 454 or 500s. size and packability was a concern in the original question.

+1 for DoubleTap Ammunition. Good people and great products. Their 200gr WFNGC goes 1309fps from my G20 and really shoots tight groups with no leading of the bore even after an extended session. Their 10mm is the best there is, period.

I carry a 4.25" Ruger SRH in 454 Casull loaded with 405gr Beartooth WLNGC's @ 1330fps as my bear defense handgun.

I have also carried 10mm, 44mag and 45 Colt chambered handguns.

When in grizzly country I pack the 454 when I am in areas that do not support a grizzly population or bears are sleeping the winter away I carry a 5" Barsto barreled G20 10mm with Beartooth WFNGC's @ 1300fps (yes these are the bullets that Double Tap uses)

I have now parked the G20 and purchased a G29 with a 4.25" Barsto barrel the loads I mentioned above do 1280fps out of the slightly shorter barrel.

I feel that as a backup the G29 10mm will do the job very nicely I wouldn't want to face down a grizzly with it though.

10mm is a great cartridge, too bad it didn't have a better following. But those of us who know the 10mm are die hards fans. The 10mm is adeguate for bear with the right ammo +P solids corbon or reloads. I wouldn't use the G-29 though, I would prefer the full size G-20. I have carried a G-20 and have had great results. You can also carry the 10mm is S&W revolver, S&W auto, KIMBER, COLT, Dan Wessen, or CZ. Just my $.02!

Just a new member digging up an old post, but I had to get my two cents in:

I've dragged my G20 around in the mountains of NW Montana for weeks at a time for hiking, camping, and hunting in Grizz country.

This pistol has been unmaintained for weeks at a time while being exposed to mud, dirt, rain, sleet, snow, submerged crossing streams, sliding down shale rock slides, and everything else these wonderful mountains has to offer.... I have yet to have a malfunction with "duty" ammo.

I used this pistol once to place three "insurance" shots into an approx 250# black bear from about 5' away. I was using Winchester 175gr Silvertip HP's and the shots were placed into the top of the back between the shoulders. Two rounds hit the spine going in, and were recovered on the bottom side of the chest underneath the hide. The other round went completely through. I would estimate that this bears chest was about 18" thick.

I haven't hunted Brownies in AK yet.... Hopefully moose & caribou next year.... But the skulls I've seen at the taxidermist would prove you don't need to get through too much to get to the brain or spine, and these are the only targets that are going to get things shut down immediately.

Currently I prefer the Corbon or Double Tap Ammo - The later being just as high quality & powerful, but half the cost and usually nickel plated.

If your a 1911 or wheelgun fan, the "tactical tupperware" is a hard pill to swallow, but the G20 is the most bang for the weight. 16 rounds of 10mm gives you 10 extra chances to hit your target, in addition to less recoil = faster follow up shots. Bears are unbelievable quick, and as a wise man once told me: "If there's lead in the air, theres still hope."

I've shot around 120,000 rounds through my G21 & G20, and have had less than a dozen malfunctions altogether - The majority of which were out of the G21 w/ cheap practice ammo.

I use the G20 w/ the factory 6" hunting barrel, 3.5# connector w/ NY1 spring, trijicon night sights, and a Blackhawk Serpa holster w/ pistol leash. Accuracy is around 4" @ 50yds off a bench.

The G20 is a lightweight to carry on the hip & will get things done. I wouldn't carry any other handgun for defense.

A well reasoned response .....!!!

mmw464

I am a 1911/S&W N Frame kind of guy.
But I had to carry a Glock 17 for several years.
I will admit, the Glock is a serious working semi-auto. They are almost indestructable.

My problem with any semiauto for animal protection, is if you are knocked down, or other wise in contact with the attacking animal then there is a good chance that the semiauto might malfunction, due to something, animal hair/part of the animals body, part of your body, contact with the ground, etc will impede slide movement.

This is why I prefer a revolver in the field.
My choice being a S&W 4" 44 Mag.

However IF a person JUST, MUST, have a semiauto, then either a 1911, Glock, H&K or SIG in 45 ACP, with Buffalo Bore 230 FP [or equivilent ammo] or a Glock in 10mm would be a good choice.

I have a box of Buffalo Bore 230gr fp on the shelf incase I get the 45 S&W M&P I,ve been looking at .. I was amazed when I found it , the BB ammo in 45 ACP on a dealers shelf ...I gave a magazine full to a friend who packs a 45 ACP .. .. The 460 Rowland has too heavy a recoil spring for me so the Buffal Bore ammo is a great find ...

As an aside . A friend of mine had a chance to shoot a black bear with the 10 mm a few days ago , It was on it,s way to the back door of the house and she didn,t have a good chance at it .. She got 2 shots into the bear then she accidently dumped the magizine and got discombobilated with the gun ..however the bear rolled /drug itself off the deck and made it to the brush , I guess it was found there and dispatched with a rifle ... So it did work ..No one and almost nothing got torn up ...
I don,t know what load was in the gun . But she is very thankful the gun was available ....

Back in the day, we used to get nuisance black bear tags when they regularly raided the ranch. We'd get out the dogs and once we found them would dispatch them using either a 30-30, .243 or a 45 ACP Mil Spec 1911. Just hit them in the right place with the first shot. I carry a Springfield Long Slide in 45 Super for that now (230g Golden Sabre at 1150 fps) ...



Regards,

Chuck

I just loaded up a couple hundred 220gr hard cast loads for my glock 20. I ordered one of the lone wolf 6" barrels for it and will wait for it to get here to chrono them.

Not trying to cause trouble, but why do you need a pistol when your carrying a rifle? Any rifle is better then any pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Not trying to cause trouble, but why do you need a pistol when your carrying a rifle? Any rifle is better then any pistol.

Now that's some sense.

I think he was assuming the rifle is incapacitated or empty, but not sure. All but the weakest of rifle calibers carry as much or more energy than the 10mm. Now I know I am a fan of overkill, but I prefer an X frame loaded with 454 or 460 for any type of bear defense, at the ranges you would be using the pistol to defend yourself, unloading 10 rds to stop the teeth and claws from causing major discomfort seems like it would take too much time for my taste. But a 10mm beats any other semi auto except the desert eagle, but thats not what I would want to lug around, and it sure beats nothing.

Now, for something completely different! For a hunting, especially treed bears, I would feel comfortable with a 10mm. Just not with a fuzzy tooth monster thats agitated in any way. To coin an addage, when the shit hits the fan, I have never wished I had a smaller gun.

I love these caliber arguments, it passes the time until the fall.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Not trying to cause trouble, but why do you need a pistol when your carrying a rifle? Any rifle is better then any pistol.

You cannot always carry the rifle.

If the bear knocks you down the rifle is useless.

If you have a semiauto and fire it after you are knocked down, contact with the bear, your body or the ground/foliage may cause a malfunction.

This is why a big bore revolver is the best choice.

I agree it is good not to have anything in the way of a semi .. However , some people due to financial or other reasons only have one hand gun ...
with the testing I did last year . I came to a caliber impasse ,and some pretty heated discussions about this handgun best caliber controversy .... I,ve pretty well decided that as much velocity as you can handle is best , and if the cast bullets break up , get Belt Mt Punch bullets ....... John Linebaugh told me he thot the Punch bullets were a good idea ..For a snubby cannon a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 454 Cassul 2 1/2" barrel .. It's lighter than the X frames , tho they are substantially more powerful .....
If money wasn,t an object I would have John make me a 4 5/8 Bisley Vaquaro in 500 Linebaugh .. And if I stumble on a great deal on a BFR in some great big round I will probably get it , as the barrel can be shortened to the length of the ejector rod housing and it can be loaded to the velocity I can handle ...

quote:

If the bear knocks you down the rifle is useless.

If you have a semiauto and fire it after you are knocked down, contact with the bear, your body or the ground/foliage may cause a malfunction.

Yes but if the bear knocks you down the pistol isn't going to help much either. Besides we’re talking black bears here. Unlike their larger cousins they aren't likely to come at you without provocation. Even when provoked they still tend to run the other way. But if a guy wants to carry a sidearm that’s his choice.

i wouldnt carry 2 guns when i am in the act of hunting. done it a time or 2 but just a nuscance but ther has been plenty of times when around camp , cabin tent or whatever somethin was walking around outside at nite. could have got a wolf once an a couple times uninvited people showed up didnt stay long but we had guns
10mm w anythin but target bullets shoul work

Black bears kill a lot more people every year that the brown ones.

Usuually when a black bear attacks he is planning on eating you.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:


Yes but if the bear knocks you down the pistol isn't going to help much either. Besides we’re talking black bears here. Unlike their larger cousins they aren't likely to come at you without provocation. Even when provoked they still tend to run the other way. But if a guy wants to carry a sidearm that’s his choice.

..
.
.. I know several people on P.o.W. who have had to kill black bears in defense of their life . I had a little Ruger 41 mag save me from a mauling in the Coffman Cove area .. I didn,t have to fire a shot , but the bear wasn,t over 10 feet away and when he left I was within a sec of pulling the trigger ...... The caliber of pistols I've bluffed bears with include 9mm para, 40 S&W 357 mag 41 mag . 44 mag . 45 Colt ,and 480 Ruger ........ Alot of the time a handgun doesn,t have to be a monster smasher , just enough to give you the confidence to stand or advance and fight ........................... And 450 #2 is right , you don,t want to fool around with a black bear , they'll eat ya .

Origonally posted by Gumboot

quote:

.. I know several people on P.o.W. who have had to kill black bears in defense of their life . I had a little Ruger 41 mag save me from a mauling in the Coffman Cove area .. I didn,t have to fire a shot , but the bear wasn,t over 10 feet away and when he left I was within a sec of pulling the trigger ...... The caliber of pistols I've bluffed bears with include 9mm para, 40 S&W 357 mag 41 mag . 44 mag . 45 Colt ,and 480 Ruger ........ Alot of the time a handgun doesn,t have to be a monster smasher , just enough to give you the confidence to stand or advance and fight ........................... And 450 #2 is right , you don,t want to fool around with a black bear , they'll eat ya .

Gumboot

You hit the nail on the head with this posting.

First of all I don't agree with anothers posting that a handgun won't do you any good if your already down. I feel quite the contrary, If your on your back and your foot is in a bears mouth a handgun may be the only thing that will save you.


No handgun has enough power to do a bang flop DRT with a body shot on a 9&1/2 foot brown bear. At this range the brain is not a small target and you should be planning on putting your bullet in the bears head.

With this in mind what you need is a handgun that has ample power to penatrate the bears skull. Although I carry a big bore revolver and I do feel that is best in bear country other less powerfull handguns will do in a pinch.

At five feet away a 10mm or .357 between the bears eyes likely will save your backside. If you belive what I say you will likely keep your composure when the time comes. If you loose confadence and do something desperite like try to run then it dosent matter how big your gun is.

I have been charged by both brown and black bears. I've had some exciting moments a couple of times when charged by brown bear but the closest encounter I have had was a charging black bear comeing from above on a hill. I shot at about 10 feet and the bear dropped and rolled inches past me and stopped about 10 feet down hill behind me.

That was the only black bear that ever chaged me but like N.E.450#2 says there are more encounters between man and bears envolving black bears. There are a whole lot more black bears coming into contact with a whole lot more people all over North America than there are brown bear encounters in the deepest of the northern wilderness.

.... The sidearm when hunting is a different mind set than always having a sidearm on you when out and about .......I pack a pistol most all the time I,m out in the brush or boat .. Not only is it fun to be able to blast at stuff, But they have saved me from mailings and possibly death . And helped fill the freezer just because they were with me ...
. . When you are hunting with a rifle , imo , That is what you do all the killin/stopping with ...Some people ,and not saying you dirk ,have some wierd ideas that you shoot once of twice with a rifle then throw it down and whip out a pistol and fill the bear full of lead ...
.
. Some retards think having a big pistol makes up for a smallish rifle , AND BAD SHOOTING !!!!!
. . If most of these 30 cal BIG game hunters were dead eye Dicks with their small rifles , That would be great , it,s obvious a 6.5 x54 will kill anything that walks ,IF the bullet gets to where it is supposed to be .. Just like an arrow will .......I,ve seen guys shooting a 22/250 not nearly as well as I shoot a 458 Lott ... I'm not braggin about my shooting , but illuminating their bad shooting . To use a handgun to make up for bad shooting is the wrong idea !!!!!!!!!! And if you are paying attention , a bear should Never be able to knock you down .And if your little rifle won,t insure that.. Then you need to move up to a 416 or bigger

Getting way off track here, and I hate to say it, but the bear spray is probably the most effective option.

I've been OC'd numerous times, and if bears sense of smell is hundreds or thousands of times more sensitive than ours, it would really suck to be a bear with a cloud of OC in your nose.

.. Tho I wouldn,t try to dissuade someone from packing it also .. A handgun is way preferable ..

A sidearm is a lot more convenient when you're on a four wheeler and want to go behind a bush to defecate, as opposed to a rifle that you have to uncase from the machine.

Um, won't the use of cast bullets void all warranties in a Glock?

I have shot several thousand cast bullets reloads through a couple of Glock 17's 9mm,s.

No problems.