On a backpack trip where one is using trekking poles while hiking through bear country, how do you all carry you rifle for ready access in case you happen to bump into a bear?

This is one thing I think pack makers have missed the mark on this past decade. Gun bearers I can't stand. I wear an external frame pack, have a small hook bolted to my frame and run a 1" webbing sling. My rifle rides there, I can tie my shoes and it stays put, use both hands for whatever and still have my gun in my hand in less than 2 second. Other times I just strap it to my pack and hope for the best. I live in Alaska. I go lots of places in bear country without a gun as is.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
This is one thing I think pack makers have missed the mark on this past decade. Gun bearers I can't stand. I wear an external frame pack, have a small hook bolted to my frame and run a 1" webbing sling. My rifle rides there, I can tie my shoes and it stays put, use both hands for whatever and still have my gun in my hand in less than 2 second. Other times I just strap it to my pack and hope for the best. I live in Alaska. I go lots of places in bear country without a gun as is.

1st bolded: I'd love to see a picture or video clip of what you are describing.

2nd bolded: So have Joyce and I. But the second trip out of Clearwater Creek CUA in the dark using headlamps with bloody Caribou on our backs and trekking poles in both hands with my rifle in the sleeve of the Barney's Pack did not make us feel very smart.

I'll likely buy a Glock 40 (10mm) and start using chest holster. Certainly would beat harsh words or the pepper spray Joyce had on the waist belt of her pack.

Hiking without trekking poles under load is not an option for us old geezers.

Cheers
Jim

When I guide sheep or
Goats my 10mm rides my belt on my barneys pack. I skip the rifle. I'll get a pic later tonight of my hook on my Barney pack. Basicly the same as hanging it over the post of the pack but lower so I can reach it.

Never mind photobucket won't work tonight. Not sure how else to load a picture.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
When I guide sheep or
Goats my 10mm rides my belt on my barneys pack. I skip the rifle. I'll get a pic later tonight of my hook on my Barney pack. Basicly the same as hanging it over the post of the pack but lower so I can reach it.

Never mind photobucket won't work tonight. Not sure how else to load a picture.

Email it to me if you would. wojo@gci.net

I don't know if they still do but Cabelas used to offer a hook that attached to their external frame packs. I don't see it on their site anymore but essentially it was an L-shaped hook that used the top available hole on the frame. I suppose you could make one with a threaded bolt. I just put the sling over the top of the frame upright. I've done this for years.

Kifaru out of Colorado makes a rifle carrier that works great about $30. Nylon with velcro strapping that attaches to your pack belt , that is totally adjustable. The most important is the top holding strap is designed for quick release and the rifle is carried infront of your shoulder for quick engagement and can be easily pulled off with either arm. You don't feel the weight, since it is wore instead of carried. The weight is distributed across the hips. Your arms are totally free for carrying walking sticks or tripod.
I would not feel comfortable carrying a rifle strapped to the back of the backpack in dangerous game country.

I've had clients with the kifaru one as well. I didn't see anything about the set up that made me rethink what I was doing. If I recal correctly that rig has your gun barrell right in front of your body sticking forward, not friendly in the brush or if you need to use your binos a lot. One guy got hit in the face by his gun barrel once too.

My rifle is always in one hand or the other.

I have no sling mounts on my rifles and remove all sling mounts if they are present on any rifle I might acquire, that requires me to have to do as Phil made mention of "carrying the rifle in one hand or the other". This is without argument the quickest acquisition for ones firearm. Personally I liken slings and pack mounting systems as a brush drag net that seems to get hung up on the smallest of brush one will encounter while hunting. I do carry at times a small sling in my pack with some loops that I can sling it across my chest while dragging a deer or needing the use of both of my hands for a moment while hunting. Open country is a different story plenty of time to get to a rifle. To answer Larry's question using trekking poles, I just carry one pole and the rifle in the other switching back and forth, I use my rifle quite often as my trekking pole, I'm rough on recoil pads.

You can see my hook on my pack where my rifle rides. It's a light rifle but being able to use my hands has been helpfull

I never packed much usually horseback but spent plenty of time in bear country. when on foot I carried my gun in one hand or the other..Same as I do when hunting..don't care for slings..Do keep some small cotton rope for emergency and serves as a sling if Im dragging or carrying quarters or heads out..

I'm the opposite. When I've got blood and meat on me the gun goes in my hands.

95 percent of the time I detach the sling and carry my firearm in my hands.

There are time when one needs both hands then I put the sling back on.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
You can see my hook on my pack where my rifle rides. It's a light rifle but being able to use my hands has been helpfull

Same here,,my rifle is slung 90% of the time, except for shooting or use as a climbing aid.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
You can see my hook on my pack where my rifle rides. It's a light rifle but being able to use my hands has been helpfull

Same here,,my rifle is slung 90% of the time, except for shooting or use as a climbing aid.

...or a club, or tent pole, or pry bar, or drinking straw, or to lean my pack on, or...

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
I'm the opposite. When I've got blood and meat on me the gun goes in my hands.

Oops!!

I find more satisfaction with my rifle in hand, doesn't weigh enuff to bother. When I climb I grab my sling and put it on my rifle for steep grades an throw it on my back. Seen some carry their rifles alongside the packs, not for me.

Probably should have had Larry clarify to us what he considered 'bear country', I had presumed (that will always get you in trouble) when I posted earlier, that Larry was referring to alders and thick pucker brush, but in AK 'bear country' could accurately be used to discribe the vast majority of the state.

I never did understand a chest holster. If hit from behind you would not be able to draw the pistol. I always thought it was called a side arm for a reason?

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Probably should have had Larry clarify to us what he considered 'bear country', I had presumed (that will always get you in trouble) when I posted earlier, that Larry was referring to alders and thick pucker brush, but in AK 'bear country' could accurately be used to discribe the vast majority of the state.

No. This is well north of of the arctic circle on the north side of the Brooks. From what I saw hunting there last year, there are very few bushes.

For the most part, I feel I need two trekking poles. Old age, poor sense of balance. Accordingly, I am trying to find a way to get a gun quickly should the need arise. For the record, I had to shoot (yes me, not the guide) a charging grizzly on my first trip to Alaska on the 90's). Thus my concern.

My options currently are as follows:

1- Have my rifle strapped up on my pack and rely on the guide. The guide carries his rifle with quick access.

2- Use something like Jake uses.

3- Have my rifle strapped up on my pack and carry my 10MM Glock.

4- Use something like Jake uses and carry my 10MM Glock.

I am actively hunting grizzly this time. I am a little more concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

No. This is well north of of the arctic circle on the north side of the Brooks. From what I saw hunting there last year, there are very few bushes.

Larry, thanks for the additional information about your hunting venue, in that setting Jake's setup, or one like it would work great for your situation with the use of your trekking poles.

I use the sternum strap on my pack alot so a chest holster may not work very well for me. When wearing my Frontier Gear guide pack I hang it on the horn of the frame. When wearing an Alice pack I have a hook similar to Jake's but a little wider. Sometimes I wear a handgun in a verticle shoulder holster. The shoulder holster or the chest holster are the 2 best for drawing with my left hand if the need arose. I have wore a holstered strong side revolver on the Alice pack alot when using it as my fallers pack. When I get to my saw I throw the holstered gun inside the pack until quiting time. Then slide it back on the hip belt and head to the road.
I have had real good success with slinging on the top horn of the frame pack and on the hook on the Alice pack. To get the rifle in action , I grasp the pistol grip, lift the rifle up a few inches, twist the rifle a couple inch and basically flip/pivot the whole thing forward while bringing my left hand around to grasp the fore end . Only takes about a second and is fairly intuative with a little practice.
By using barrel band sling swivel eyes on my barrels I keep the muzzle a bit lower so it doesn't hang up on as much brush.

However, if there is a chance of a bear problem , the rifle is in my hands.

quote:

I am actively hunting grizzly this time. I am a little more concerned.

For some reason peoples mind set in bear country changes when you have a tag in your pocket. I get clients worried a bears gonna come into camp or charge us or something. I just ask them why they brought a bear tag...?

Assuming the role of top predator should feel different but not in a way that makes you MORE concerned than you may have been just walking around in bear country.

When you set out to kill something, act that way. Predators aren't successful cause they are scared or worried, they are successful because they don't give up.

...unrelated to how to carry a gun...lol sorry

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
[QUOTE]I am actively hunting grizzly this time. I am a little more concerned.

For some reason peoples mind set in bear country changes when you have a tag in your pocket. I get clients worried a bears gonna come into camp or charge us or something. I just ask them why they brought a bear tag...?

Assuming the role of top predator should feel different but not in a way that makes you MORE concerned than you may have been just walking around in bear country.

When you set out to kill something, act that way. Predators aren't successful cause they are scared or worried, they are successful because they don't give up.

...unrelated to how to carry a gun...lol sorry[/QUOT

excellent observation.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

I am actively hunting grizzly this time. I am a little more concerned.

For some reason peoples mind set in bear country changes when you have a tag in your pocket. I get clients worried a bears gonna come into camp or charge us or something. I just ask them why they brought a bear tag...?

Assuming the role of top predator should feel different but not in a way that makes you MORE concerned than you may have been just walking around in bear country.

When you set out to kill something, act that way. Predators aren't successful cause they are scared or worried, they are successful because they don't give up.

...unrelated to how to carry a gun...lol sorry

What I meant by that comment was that I will be going into country where there are more bears than other areas. That will be the sole reason for going into that country as opposed to say going into an area where there are more sheep but there might be grizzlies.

Larry I was using your statement to address a common observation not so much addressing you as an individual.
I treat areas with more bears the same as areas with less bears, helps avoid complacency.and no matter where you are...there are always bears.

Jake:

I had an incident around 2000 that cured me of any complacency.

I was sheep hunting in the Yukon. The guide told me to sit where I was while he was going to make this dangerous climb and have a quick look. I sat down by this rock and leaned on my pack and fell asleep. When I woke up, I noticed grizzy tracks in snow about 10-20 yards away that had not been there before.

Yes, that one bothered me. I remember the guides eyes getting big when I showed him.

Yup. Makes ya wonder how many times that stuff happens we never know about.

Yup.

I hope I never have to shoot a bear with my pistol, at any rate one might consider saving the last shot for self! At least that's what John suggested in one of his movies..Sure as hell Id miss and wound myself..

I know fourtyonesix subscribes to this as well so it's no original or revolutionary idea I'm bringing to the conversation... but a light rifle is step one.

I'm a mid-30's 175lb mountain backpack hunts outfitter in BC, and I truly hate weight. It's not that one can't suck it up and deal with it, it's that the tool that should be mindless to use and carry, a cold metallic comfort and friend, becomes a leaden cursed log after your third or fourth consecutive backpack hunt in a season.

You're more apt to strap it down out of your hands, less apt to take it on a mountain goat retrieve and opt for a pistol, the more deadweight that friend is. It really doesn't matter how well and fast you can operate your 9lb custom .300 if you're unlikely to have it ready.

For that reason I had Stuart Satterlee make me a fully titanium Mauser 98 in .375 2 1/4 Nitro. That's English for 9.5x57, and no beast, but it's just right in a true ultralight. Down on the coast, coastal grizzly / brown guiding I carry a double rifle in .375 H&H and am in talks with Searcy to do a stainless .375 Flanged for me. But this Satterlee may well take over there too, it's just too handy and pleasant, and returned the friendship to the guide-rifle relationship.

The Ti M98 .375 2 1/4" in progress, it's now field ready. And it's big brother the Merkel .375 working for a living- it may be retired.

Angus:

I also have a super light rifle. I think something like 4.5 pounds unloaded without a scope. The issues are twofold. First, I am very protective of my rifles in the sense that I want to keep them zeroed. Secondly, I need both trekking poles. I have never had the worlds best sense of balance. It sure as hell hasn't gotten any better as I have aged.

My basic question is how to carry this rifle so I can get it quickly if need be while at the same time using two trekking poles ?

Keep in mind that I am from the sea level flat lands with no rocks. I will be just shy of 62 when I go on this trip. I also sit behind a desk everyday.

Gotcha Larry, makes sense, I segwayed there a healthy jaunt. I am not a big fan of it, but I carry a Mossberg 590A1 14" (no barrel length rules here in Canada) on an elastic single point sling for certain bear duty when I need my hands free. It just dangles at my side and when needed comes into the hands in an instant, and the elastic allows it to be brought to bear, pun intended. I don't believe slugs are great stoppers but the gun is light, short, and ugly enough it makes sense to carry. I'll try and dig up a picture of the setup in use, could work for other light / compact guns and I intend to sling my Satterlee the same.

Single point, elastic sling Mossberg 590A1 setup. I rather hate this gun as may be apparent. It ended up in the river when I was skinning out a big grizz, it's my long form Glock 20.

Angus how about a couple of full photos of that beautiful 98 rifle. Whose stock is on it.

I'm 60 degrees north in the rest of the year job flying helis and the Satterlee's too valuable for that, cheap shotgun duty, so when home I'll take some proper photos. Stock will be painted by then too, and Stuart roughed one of my walnut blanks for me using the synthetic as a pattern. I'll complete that too soon as I'm a wood lover.

Not sure who's composite it is, Stuart is on this forum and may be able to chime in, but I do believe it's a custom layup for him.

I have never been impressed by a shotgun on DG..I suppose if one can hold fire until you can stick it in his mouth is OK..

Slugs are terrible killers IMO..Ive seen them do their work on deer and not impressed at all. A load of buckshot up real close is better, but penetration is not all that good, I suppose on Leopard the shotgun is Ok,but I stillprefer a big bore rifle..Just my two bits, give me a .375, .416 or 458 etc. if something is going to eat me in Africa...For the big bears of Alaska I would want at least a 30-06 with Noslers, but a .338 or 375 would be a better choice..To me the shotgun is at its best on a charging Phesant..

Ray; I agree with your acessment of the shotgun on bears, however. It will prolly keep him from getting bit. And it does seem he has a handy way to pack it. If I couldn't pack a handgun , I would prolly have something like a 416/300 WSM or 458/300 WSM built on a short action Stainless Ruger M77 Mk ll or Hawkeye with a 16" barrel and 16 oz synthetic stock. It wouldn't have to weigh over 6 lbs loaded . And would possibly hang on a single point bungy sling. A guy could get 4k ft.lbs out of it with 300 gr mono Metal expanding bullets and that would work great. Even as a general purpose big game rifle.

Actually agree with both you gentlemen, here in Canada it's frustrating to do the permits to carry a handgun for work, however shotguns can be purchased over the counter with barrels as short as 6 1/2". They're simply used as a long form handgun, and at that with a Brenneke slug (one of a rare few worth carrying) they outperform near any handgun up to the .500 Smith from a long barrel. That's not saying a ton as I don't like handgun rounds, or .45-70s, I like speed for shock on big bears. So the shotgun is a cheap, light, compact compromise that's better than nothing. In the weather pictured don't have the heart to carry my usual guiding gun for big bears, the .375 H&H Merkel.

This said, also resemble the statements on a light compact all-weather .375 etc, and that's exactly why I had Satterlee build my titanium M98 .375 2 1/4.