Will this load work for Kodiaks
Thanks
Ed

Sorry, I don't understand the question. a 300g what dia bullet? Going 2000fps where? at the muzzle or at 100yds?

The Kodiak brownies are the biggest of the big and the brush is supposed to be the thickest of the thick so if you think the load is marginal then mebbe you should consider something faster. I think a .338 pushes a 250g TSX a heck of a lot faster than 2000fps.

depends on the quality of the bullet is my guess. 2000 fps at 100 yards with a 300 grain bullet sounds like a max 45/70 load. If the bullet is a barnes XFN design, might work. If its a 300 grain remington corlock or hornady hollowpoint--- its going to break up and you got a very big and angry problem.
I'd prefer a .458 diameter 500 grain at 2000-----read 458 WM.

a 300gr TSX from a .375 cal at the muzzle

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Sorry, I don't understand the question. a 300g what dia bullet? Going 2000fps where? at the muzzle or at 100yds?

The Kodiak brownies are the biggest of the big and the brush is supposed to be the thickest of the thick so if you think the load is marginal then mebbe you should consider something faster. I think a .338 pushes a 250g TSX a heck of a lot faster than 2000fps.

If you put it in the right spot - sure.

My (very limited) experience with TSXs and bears is that when velocities are low (below 2000fps) the bullets don't open up much.

If I were limited to that velocity I would look for something softer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nyatiinc.com:
a 300gr TSX from a .375 cal at the muzzle[QUOTE]

This is probably a keyboard question, and hypothetical, but I'll discuss it anyway.

You didn't say the rifle is a 375 H&H. Could be any chambering in 375 somethingorother. If a H&H, I see no purpose in downloading for such use. Starting at 2000fps is anemic, and at 100 yds, even slower.

I would think very unfavorably being anywhere in the vacinity if someone I know wanted to try something like that. I sure wouldn't do it myself. There is no good reason that I can think of, and there are plenty of better options.

There is no doubt that doing what you suggest is a choice, and IMO a very poor one. Going after a big brown bear is a once in a lifetime hunt, most likely, and guided for non-residents, and expensive. Spending that much effort, time and money and choosing to use a rifle/cartridge combo that's iffey doesn't make much sense.

I'll give an example of a load that I do find acceptable, in theory anyway, since I haven't shot a brown bear with it. I load 270gr TSX bullets in my 375H&H, at about 2500+ fps. It's the load I settled on after testing others, and found it to be the most accurate. I use H4350 powder, and the load is slightly compressed. IMO, it's nearly perfect for that rifle/cartridge combo, and also IMO a good choice for Alaska moose and bear. There are other good choices. For example, the 9.3x62, which I have taken a brown bear with, and it did the job efficiently. The 375 load with 270 gr TSX ought to be as effective or perhaps a little more.

The rifle I'm playing with lately is a short barreled 458 WM, and the loads I'm doing are the 350gr and 400gr Swifts, and the 350gr Barnes TSX, using AA2230 moderately compressed. Judging from the recoil, it ought to be packing a lot of punch out the muzzel end.

If it's recoil you are worried about, I would rather shoot a 300WM with a 200gr TSX bullet, loaded to full velocity, than a 300gr .375 TSX at 2000 fps, because I think the 300WM/200gr combo would be more effective of the two choices, and recoil tolerable.

KB

Bob Reeves shot one of the largest bears ever killed in the world with a 405 Win. At the muzzle the 405 launches a 300 gr. .411 dia bullet @ 2000fps and the Reeves bear was killed at over 200 yards.

Phil,
You answered a question that wasn't asked. I suspect there are hundreds of stories of big bears killed with lesser bullets at lesser velocity. Perhaps even a 30-06.

A friend who lives in Hoonah showed me some old pictures of a giant brown bear his father killed in the old days in Neka Bay with a 30 Rem simi-auto. The bear was in the chicken coop, and the old man was drunk. After dark in early fall, he heard the commotion, walked out the back door, the bear stood up on its hind legs facing him, about ten feet away. In poor light, he shot it just below the chin, right in the neck bone. Dropped him right there. Good thing because the rifle jammed regularly, so he used it as a single shot. I don't think that makes a 30-30 a good choice for brown bear.

The rest of the story is that the old man just went back inside, slept off the booze, and dealt with it the next morning. They dragged the carcass to the beach at low tide with a skidder, took pictures, and let the tide float it away.

They said the chickens remained in shock, and didn't lay another egg for at least a year.

The question was will the TSX "work" - a specific bullet, at a specific muzzle vel, at a range 100yds or less. I figure the question required one to define the word "work".

If that simply means the bear will most likely die sooner or later, with a good hit from such a combo - then the answer is yes.

If the word "work" means the bear is likely to expire sooner than later, then the answer is most likely no. By this latter definition, such a combo doesn't work for me.

If the question had been about a 405 Win with a 300gr (expanding) bullet, the answer might have been different. Although I don't like that combo either.

So, the questions for you specifically, given your expertise and background, would you prefer to guide a nimrod who chose such a combo, or perhaps another guy shooting a 300WM (or 30-06) with 200 gr bonded bullets or TSX? Which do you figure is most likely to require you to follow up on a bear in the bush that you are not sure has expired or not?

KB

The 405 Winchester with it's 300 gr .411 bullet at 2000fps was considered by many Alaskan hunters to be a perfectly acceptable backup rifle for big bears. I have even seen a few that are still in use and when I guided Dave Scovill on a bear hunt it was one he used.
My point is that if a .411 dia bullet at that velocity is acceptable then a .375 bullet of the same weight, with greater SD, should work just fine and I wouldn't hesitate to guide a hunter using either combo.
Poor shooting causes a hell of a lot more problems for us guides than the choice of caliber, bullets or velocity.

Since you didn't mention it -- what I'm referring to is the alledged tendency of the TSX to not expand if impact velocity is lower than that which the bullet is designed for.

Since you have taken the discussion in a logical direction, for comparison, consider the Nosler partition 300 gr. Since the nose of that bullet is designed to expand at low velocity, and perhaps blow away at higher velocity, I would have probably said OK if the question had been about that bullet at 2000 fps, with great shot placment.

I disagree about the 405 being a good choice with a 300gr bullet -- even though Teddy shot lion, hippo and buff and other stuff with it. A 405 with a 400 gr soft nose - different answer.

KB

I too was skeptical about the 405 but after seeing it used and carrying and using it for a year with both TSX and Woodleigh bullets I decided it was not a bad round. The TSX bullets opened well by the way and I even learned to like the M-95

Although I would prefer it in 9.3x62.

I looked up the SD of the 300gr .411 TSX bullet. It's .254, which is a game changer, IMO.

The data shows the .458 TSX 350gr as .238 SD. I have little hesitation in using that bullet out of my 458WM for bear. Although I haven't shot one myself with it, I have a friend who says he has and the penetration is awesomely effective.

So, accordingly, I see no reason the 300 gr .411 TSX shouldn't be a good choice. It's made to perform in the velocity window of the 405 Winchester.

My reservations about the 300gr .375 TSX are that it's not made for that velocity, but several hundred fps faster. Also, I took a look at some 270 gr .375 TSX and some 350 gr .458 TSX bullets, and the hollow point on the .458s is much bigger. I suspect the 300gr .411 bullet also has a proportionally large hollow point to enable it to open quickly.

Anyway, I agree with you now about the 405 Win being adequate for big bear, but I'm only agreeing because of the TSX bullet use. I don't have the same confidence with Woodlieghs, but they could be OK, since they are designed to open at low velocity, and hold together. They are certainly a better bullet than what Teddy had in his day.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I looked up the SD of the 300gr .411 TSX bullet. It's .254, which is a game changer, IMO.

The data shows the .458 TSX 350gr as .238 SD. I have little hesitation in using that bullet out of my 458WM for bear. Although I haven't shot one myself with it, I have a friend who says he has and the penetration is awesomely effective.

KB

The 350 TSX became my favorite load for my CZ550 in .458WM. It went moose hunting but never saw a bull to use it on. However, it was used on a smallish 200lb bl.bear. The shot was at 90 yds (downhill) into the front of the chest and it made exit in front of right hip. Exit hole was quarter size. I don't know if the bullet expanded or not, but the bear still ran 40 yds. I believe a flat-tip (like North Fork) would have expanded and flattened the bear on the spot with that hit. I know I've flattened some with the plain-jane 405 Rem from my Marlin .45-70 at about the same range with an MV of 2000+ fps.

The MV of the 350 TSX from my CZ was 2750 fps. With the long action I seated them "long", crimped into the bottom cannelure, over a heavy dose of H4198. Very accurate. Probably would "work" better on a BB or lion.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

That's interesting. I suspect that I can get somewhere between 2300 and 2400 fps, since I have to seat to the top groove. My rifle has a short throat, and that seating depth works out perfect.

I think H4198 allows me to reach a max load, before running out of capacity, or closer to it than some of the other powders with similar burn rate. If so, I suspect 2400fps is achievable in my rifle, with the 350gr. Probably 2250 to 2300 with the 400gr Swift. All the other powders I've tried use up all the space available, slightly compressed, yet seem to be significantly under max pressure.

I have a variety of bullets, 350 - 405 gr. It's just that I have 40 or maybe 50 of the 350gr TSX, so I would like to load them, and count on them. Spendy buggers. I can't see much use or point in them unless loaded to potential. IMO, reduced loads with the TSX would be close to worthless. That's what I use the 405 Rem bullets for, and they seem great for that use.

I always liked the looks of the 400gr Swift, although I've never shot anything but targets with them. They remind me of the old 400 gr bear claws, which I did shoot a moose with, and very effectively.

KB

To address the original question, I believe I would call Barnes and ask what the lowest velocity that the bullet will fully function is. They know from the testing they do what that velocity is. If any of you are in Utah and want these questions answered call Barnes and schedule a tour. They will take you through the whole process, answer questions and show you real results. Ive been, its very educational. Theres a lot of science that goes into making the TSX bullet. DW

I'll bet the Rem or Hornady 300 grainers will do more than break up on a bear. 270 grain Rem factory load easily penetrates 3 feet of bone and muscle. Still not my favorite round, but it will do.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nyatiinc.com:
a 300gr TSX from a .375 cal at the muzzle[QUOTE]

What is the Cal at 100 yards???