hi
is 3006 180 gr fail-safe enough for hunting grizzly?
regards
yazid

I would not leave the house with the 30-06 & 180g
on a Grizzly hunt But there have been lots of grizzlys killed w/30-06. 220g would be my 30 cal bullet choice. If 180g is all I had in the 06 that is what I would use!! All bullshit aside the answer to your question is YES Good luck!

yes, I'd not hesitate to use a good 180 in the 30-06 on any interior grzzly.

Regarding the 180 FS however, I've had poor results with that bullet on elk. On one big cow I shot both hits penciled right through with little internal evidence of expansion. I may have had a bad batch, but I believe the bullet is designed more for 300 Mag speeds. I'm also of the opinion it needs to hit bone to be at its best.

In my mind, the best penetrating 180 would be the Barnes TSX. These seem to open real well and would certainly penetrate as well as a 220 of conventional design. The 200 gr Nosler Partition would seem to be a sound choice too.

i would use a .30-.06 on grizzly. i would consider that to be a safe minimum. guys do use .270 and 7 mm, personally i would not use less than .30 cal.

if you hand load a 200 n.p. loaded hot would be a good balance. if not, i would go with federal h.e. in 180 n.p.

as always, stay away from the t.b.b.c.

good luck.

Is the .30-06 all you have? If it is then use the Barnes bullet-- I have had excellent results with penetration. Not that it means it dropped em on the first shot although it was a "killing" shot. I like how the bullet "opens" up and does a precise job in the vitals- it is a bullet in any caliber without question. Grizzlies are very tenacious and require quite abit of courage and skill if you plan on hunting them as they can most definately figure that out and "turn" on you. Good huntin/shootin!

--- Your stated cartridge is o.k. , but minimal for a relaxed Bear that doesn't know you're around . -- And may not be adequate , in any sense , for larger Bears .

But as others ( above ) have mentioned , -- with these Animals ( and with their legendary reputation for Charging the hunter , or any other humans ) ; and considering that they are almost unique , in that they charge harder when wounded , I , personally , would never hunt with an .06 unless I had some reliable partners along -- that would stay with me constantly , and function as back-up shooters .

Further , they , would have to have more powerful weapons .

Although it is rare in national statistics to be charged by a bear , -- it is not unheard of to come upon a Sow with Cubs , a feeding bear , or a wounded bear . -- any of these will up your chances of a charge tremendously .

My advice , ( which is mainly from reading the Real Experts ) ; is the old Capstick phrase , " use enough gun " . I,d start by thinking in terms of .375 H&H with heaviest bullets , the .45-70 with the strongest heavy hardcasts , ( Garrett or Buffalo Bore ) , and if you can't shoot them well , the .338 .

Anyone hunting Grizzly alone , must consider the possibility of a charge .

IMHO , --- MMCOUGAR .

mmconcolor,

"use enough gun" is a Robert Ruark phrase with all due respect to you and Mr. Capstick.

Joe

Cold Zero

I dont understand your warning of staying away from the TBBC, i have never heard of anyone complaining about its performance. I have shot four deer with that bullet in two different cartridges and it performed perfectly. Both were factory loads, and one for the 6.5X55 was only moving @ 2,550 fps and expanded well on an average doe.

By the way, i would say that Federal's high energy 180gr TBBC for the 06 is the most powerful load(handloaded or factory) for an 06. I personally know a person who has chrono-graphed that round @ 2,900 fps out of a 22" barrel, thats 300 win mag territory.

--- REPLY TO OVIS ---

Thanks for the correction , --- I've never read Ruark or Capstick's books , cover to cover . Seems like I've skimmed around in both , on occasion . --- And seems to me one or both used to publish articles in one of the old time Magazines ?? ( Maybe Sports Afield , or Field and Stream , -- ??

Seems like I've read Articles by One of them , long ago .

Anyway , I always admired that title , -- says a lot in a short space ; -- and a principle a lot of folks forget when they get going on a favorite Cartridge or Rifle / Cartridge combo. .

But for real , I've been researching Bear Attacks for a few years now , -- ( lots of fun if you're a Gun Fan ) ; trying to arrive at the very best Cartridge , action , and shooting strategy to survive a Bruin Attack . --- fascinating stuff .

And at some point you've got to tap into the body of knowledge that came out of African D.G. hunting . --- Some of the old Classic PH's that survived hundreds of charges in the glory days of African Hunting , have stories that anyone who sleeps outdoors in Bear country can learn from .

------------ MMCOUGAR .

I always get a kick out the quote from Ruark use enough gun.

This was a statement said after Ruark muff a few shots on a warthog with a 220 swift. Ruark was one of the worse rifle shots there could be he muffed lots of shots.

I belive it was more a case of bum shooting then the rifle used.

The 30-06 has killed lots of Big Bears, they have also gotten lots of hunters in real trouble. I had a buddy up there who argued the point for years that the 30-06 was more than enough gun, and died when a Bear he had shot several times, hitting it with a fatal shot, however it killed him before it died. Yep, bullet placement is of paramount importance, Yep, choice of chambering is also your choice going in, why not hedge your bets from the get go. Good shooting.

I haven't read Ruark for some time .. but re: his poor shooing ... I don't believe that he started hunting (big game) until he was an adult and on his first safari and maybe he never had the practice initially .. ??? I could be wrong, however on the dim memory ..???

Ruark was an eastern N.C. shotgun guy; birds, ducks, other small game, etc....hunted whitetail growing up and that was pretty much his big game experience outside of visiting zoos before the safari that gave us "Horn of the Hunter."

Joe

'Shot placement is everything'

While true, I wonder how often it's used as an excuse for not buying a bigger rifle, or for someone with recoil problems?

I carry a .416 caliber, and it's not because I like heavy rifles.

I think it would be a good choice.

If you wanted something bigger I would go with the 250 grain .338 or 300 grain .375 or 416/458.

If you can't stad the weight stay on your porch and call your momma , ask her to shoot your big Gun for you !

Yazid,

Answering your question, yes it will do the job.

Success,
Roland

Yes it will do the job, I carry a 30-06 frequently when caribou hunting. I like the 180 gr HE load but I believe the best is the Nosler 200 part. if you handload. The heavy base gives it tremendous penetration. Haven't tried the fail safe I am responding to the 30-06 part.

I was wondering,
have more people taken Grizz with 180gn30/06,or have more Grizz taken people who carry a 180gn30/06?
I would want something that is effective in a worst case cenario,rather than an ideal one.

I have killed at least a dozen large Brown and Grizzly bears with my 30-06 and 200 Nosler Partitions. I doubt either the bears or I would have noticed any difference if I had been using 180 gr Failsafes.
I have been saying it for years and will say it again.
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

More bears are killed with 30-06 than bears get the hunter. There may or may not be a single incident per year when a person carrying a rifle is mauled (hunters and non-hunters combined) or killed by a bear. In those instances if would be very difficult to make a case that a different rifle would have made any difference. Bears occasionally do charge a hunter that shoot them. The majority of bears want to get away. Use a good penetrating bullet 180 gr premium or I would use the 220 grain or reload a 200 grain Nosler. I am firmly convinced that any hunter that uses a weapon he is confident with is ahead of the game than using one he is unfamiliar with and or afraid of. If a bear gets you it is more likely that it's because you surprised it at such close proximity you didn't have time to get off a good shot ergo it would be difficult to make a case that a bigger caliber would have saved anything.

-- BW - BRIAN , -- I like your logic on this subject , and concur . Many operate from a sort of " Rural Legend " that the old .30-06 will kill anything ; -- and they're right , in the same sense that One of those African Greats killed everything including Elephant with a 6.5 MM ( or similar ) solid to the brain . A lot of fishermen like to catch 20 Lb. fish on 6 Lb. test too .

But a Bear Charge ain't a sport unless you have a death-wish .

The same type of concept is cherished by those that push the " Placement is Everything " mantra .

All of this , -- DOES NOT -- Conflict with the " Use-Enough Gun " , principle . - It's all a mental game of PERSPECTIVE . ( BUT , come a real Bear Charge ; -- odds on , the trusty ol' '06 will get you killed . -- Whereas Shot placement , will only work if you hit the brain , -- OR , -- USE ENOUGH GUN , ( IN CASE YOU DON'T HIT THE BRAIN ) . And the chances of getting a Brainer are slim , under the stress of a Charge .

And , not to paint a halo around my head , or anything , but when writing some of this stuff , we should all remember that many novice folks read these posts , and may venture out into Bear Country armed with our recommendations .

REPLY TO BEAR PAW JACK , -- Agree fully that shooting a gun you're familiar with is an important part of the formula .

--- But take a little exception on the point that going bigger and more powerful won't make any difference in surviving an Attack . -- It's ok as you stated it , -- i.e. since a significant percent of Attacks are so close , you're going to take damage , -- because you won't be able to get off a shot , -- so more power won't help you .

Other side of the coin , however , is that Bears full of adrenaline are extremely tough to stop , -- and therefore , there are ALSO many cases where adequate stopping power will save your bacon . --- And the venerable '06 , -- is a long , long way from an adequate D.G. Stopping Round . ( Not arguing , just inputting ) .

All JMHO , --- MMCOUGAR .

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I have killed at least a dozen large Brown and Grizzly bears with my 30-06 and 200 Nosler Partitions. I doubt either the bears or I would have noticed any difference if I had been using 180 gr Failsafes...

Phil, if you were choosing an all-around rifle for mixed bag combo hunts like sheep & Grizz or Grizz and Caribou or Moose, what cartridge would you choose? I am trying to decide among an 8.00 lb. 30-06, a 8.30 lb. .300 win. mag. and an 8.50 lb. .338 win. mag. Recoil nor marksmanship is an issue with any of those cartridges. BTW, my heavy rifle, I have decided, would be a .375 Weatherby.

I will unfortunately have to admit to being predudice towards the 06 because I have used it for so long I know it works. But to be fair I have seen so many animals killed with both the .300 Win and .338 I know they work just as well, but not noticibly much better
If I were to go tomorrow I would take my 06 loaded with 200 gr Partitions however if you held my feet to the fire I suppose I would recommend the .338.

Thanks. I value your experience. Would you share a little info on your rifle set-up: ex. Model 70? Weight, Barrel length & contour, stock... Also, do you handload or use factory ammo and have you ever chronographed it?

Cheers,
CL

If you handload you could work up some 200 grain Barnes TSX loads. You can push them around 2600 fps and you have a really reliable load for any north american game. I did shoot a nice black bear this fall with the 180 grain failsafe, and it worked flawlessly. Entered right behind the near shoulder, liquified both lungs, tore the heart in half and left a hole about the size of a silver dollar on the far side of the bear. The bear only went about ten yards.

One other point in the 30-06's favor is it'll hold five down instead of three and muzzle jump is less pronounced.

I don't think the 30-06 is touted by "rural legends" (whatever that is) I believe it's touted by those that have enough real-world experience with it to know it works.

Gunwriter's (and folks on these forums) tend to reccomend "ideal" cartridges for this or that application... problem is, the concept of "ideal" exists in a sort of vaccum that doesn't take familiarity, portability, shootability and all manner of other factors that are hard to qualify and don't fit in neat litle packages.

My favorite 30-06 is built from an older FN Mauser action. The rifle was originally a JC Higgens (Sears) but I eventually wore out the barrel and replaced it with a surplus (still new) 22" FN barrel from Numrich Arms. It now rides in a Borden synthetic stock. In this rifle my handloads ( 59 gr MRP) push 200 gr. Nosler partitons a bit over 2700fps.
Besides the dozen Brown Bears (including one serious charge from a wounded one that almost got me)I have killed black bears, Moose, Dall sheep and caribou with it in Alaska.

A 30-06 loaded with 180 grain fail safes is more than enough for grizzlies.

I find these responses very entertaining. I have taken grizzly with both 30-06 180 Nosler and .338 250 Nosler. No problems with either.

Although I am not advocating the following, I have seen grizzly taken without any problems with: 6.5-284 140 grain X bullet, .270 150 grain Hornady, .25-06 117 grain Sierra and .25-06 115 grain Nosler.

I have seen the following wounded and lost or requiring multiple follow-up shots: grizzly, bushbuck, duiker, warthog, blacktail deer, black bear, and caribou. These were intially shot with .338, .375 or .416.

I do have a friend that was mauled by a wounded bear initially shot by his hunting partner. The shooter was using a 375.

No, I am not saying a 25-06 is a better bear gun than a 375. I will say that in my experience, a 30-06 with quality 180 grain bullets will cleanly take a grizzly in the hands of someone that can shoot straight. I've done it, and would not hesitate to do it again.

Heck,

We've all heard of the Native woman who shot a griz dead with a 22lr, why carry more?

My friend BW
I remember an article in camels&guns for a couple of years ago. according to the journalist a young native hunter from greenland had killed more than 23 polar bears all with a gun in 222 rem and fmj bullets all were shot in the head or neck and no one needed more than one shot with exception of two !! which took more than one shot. it seems the man behind the gun is more important than the caliber itself. if the hunter is yellow then even 460 weatherby would not help.many are advocating 375 and 458 for bears ,then what would be needed for hunting rhino and elephant? maybe bofors 23mm canon or a field haubits
regards
yazid

Barnes makes a 250 gr round nose. Anyone have any experience shooting 250 gr bullets out of a 30-06 or 300 win mag? I was thinking of loading my 06 or 300 with a 250 for bear. I may be way out to lunch here!

Greg

keen perceptions here. Can I jump back in the boat? May as well tell you about a bear or two myself. .30-06 at 25 yards this grizz would not back off, smelled my dried salmon in my duck blind. Kept making a step closer and no matter how hard I tried to convince him to back off he cared nothing for me at all. Had a pump .06 with 220grn corelokts, shot em thru the shoulder as he made a circled approach. He jumped and took off like he had a turbo charged set of legs-died after hitting a tree with his head-or not- some fify yards back in the brush. It is capable of killing but I still like my .45-70 for close work as it has proved very effective for me anyways up close-drops em like no tomorrow. I've used .30-30's as well but it was not my choice of rifles either but it worked. As I age I tend to lean to heavier bullets, I too have noticed no difference with my .300mag and my other .338's that I gave to my boys --like my .375 or my .45-70, well proven and deadly. just my .02

hi
why you guys in alaska don't shoot them in the head or neck? it would be a better spot for stoping a grizz at place?
regards
yazid

When they are running at you 35mph you shoot the biggest part with the biggest gun.You can shoot 3006 if you like but I would rather have 338 win mag or bigger.I have a friend who was charged by a griz while moose hunting this fall.It was a one eyes 7'2" interior griz.It took him 6 shots to put it down for good while it was running.It finally stopped charging after the second shot.He was shooting 225 gr remington bullets which only two exited.One bullet stopped in the neck and two in the shoulder.I told him to use 250 gr partitions if he ever shot a bear.I had already shot a fat black bear that stopped my 225 gr bullets through both shoulders.When a grizzley is biting on you do you then say I wish I had used a bigger gun.I switched from my 338 win mag to a 416 rem mag as my tent gun.You will never feel you have too big of a gun when they start messing with you at night.

A 180 gr. Failsafe will do the job if you do yours. When I take my wife hunting for her brownie she'll use an "06" with NP but I'll be there with my .375 H&H stoked with 300 gr. Failsafes or Barnes. I really like how the NP tears up those lungs.

-Ron

I think the Fail-Safe is the best all-around big game bullet ever invented. If your rifle shoots it well, you can do no better. I've taken over fifty big game animals with the 180 gr. Fail-Safe out of a 300 Win. Mag., and this includes all varieties of deer, plus elk, bears, sheep, and a slew of African plainsgame animals from did dik to eland, plus lion, leopard, and Cape buffalo. I've also used the 270 gr. Fail-Safe out of a 375 H&H on elk, black bear, and grizzly.

I have NEVER had this bullet disappoint or otherwise not perform superbly of any sort of big game. It's a true hunter's bullet........

AD

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
My friend BW
I remember an article in camels&guns for a couple of years ago....

You don't really have a magazine called camels&guns do you? Sorry, that just cracks me up

my friend stu c
sorry the real name of magazin is actually guns&goats
regards
yazid