gumboot seems convinced a 30cal will not kill a brown bear anytime soon, goes kinda like this " if you want your guide to shoot it for you, use a 30" . now 458 win says he's killed a dozen with an 06, . i dont know anybody who eats brown bear, the only person i know who tried had to paint his house to get the smell out. so the question is ; if you shoot a dozen, what do you do with them? rugs , full mounts ? i dont want a recipe either. what im leading up to here is----was 458 possibly backing up clients who shot their bear with what else, another 30? just curious

There's an Alaskan guide that carries a Ruger mini-14, and he guides brown bear hunters.

458win has backed up clients who could have been carrying many different calibers big and small.

Gumboot is right in not carrying a 30 cal himself as its sounds as though he would not have enough confidence in it to make a proper shot.

And it is the 5.56mm that was designed to wound men as the 30 cal had a tendancy to kill them right there if not two at a time.

There is no dought that a 30 cal and a lot smaller calibers well do the job.

But what changed my mine on what to use for big bears was standing in the museum at the U of Fairbanks next to a very big full body of a very large bear.

I asked myself do I really want one of my 06's or my 300 mags in my hands when push comes to shove with one.

I said no so I built a 416 taylor I myslef would feel a lot more comfortable shooting a big brown with that then with one of my lessor cailbers.

Could I and would I shoot and kill a big bear with something of lessor power yes. If that is what I had on hand at the time.

Rmiller the same thing was said about the 30 calibers when they went from 45-70's. Just to small to kill men just going to wound them.

Inspite of being a little recoil averse have gotten into the "big bore shooting" thing a little bit. Now I regularly hunt with a .375H&H and have a .375 Ruger and a .458 winmag ordered. I have used my .375 on moose and enjoyed the performance, but couldn't really tell the difference in the bulls reaction as compared to when I've used a 7x57 or 300 Weatherby.

I took the biggest bull I ever have with my 30-06. If I would of been given the proper opportunity I would have used the -06 to take a bear. Like I said though, since I'm prefering the .375 and up these days I suspect I'll be using them.

........Somebody has a quote from Jeff Cooper in their signature line , that goes something like the better hunter or trophy is the one taken with the shortest shot .......My last bear was @ 47 feet I,ll try to reduce that by half or more ....Should be exciting .......I think that for someone to go out by them selves and get in to spitting distance from a trophy bear ought to be the goal ........And @ 20 feet you may not think you are grossly under gunned until your plan falls apart and the bear is not very affected by your shot ..........................Everyone going bear hunting should find and read the book about Ben Lilly ,.,.,.,I myself ain,t qualified clean the mud off his boots ..,.,But his story does put , [close range ] into perspective ...........

To be sure that will be exciting Gumboot. As for me, I will not be trying to get 47 or less feet away from any bear wether I am hunting it or not. I'd prefer 100-200 yards, standing broadside, a sleepy expression on his face, perhaps he gives a little yawn, the gentle breeze ruffles his coat ever so slightly,.......BOOM the bullet crumples him!

I would be curious to hear whether Shoemaker observes clients shooting better at close range or distance on bears? I'm guessing they generally do better when the bear isn't real close.

I still smile when I recall reading his article about building a 505 Gibbs for guiding bowhunters to brown bear.

Just to stir things a bit, "LAST OF THE GREAT BROWN BEAR MEN", makes interesting reading. They seemed to prefer the 375.

Gumboot
I'm starting to understad a little bit more where your coming from. I would have to agree if my intent was to get close enough to the bear to smell before I shot then I would be choosing something with lots of horsepower.

I find that ranges from 50 to about 150 yards give the hunter (and guide) alot of control in the situation. A big part of hunting anything is setting yourself up for the shot so maybe your style of hunting dictates what gun your using rather than saying that a bear requires one minimum cal for all situations.

I almost always backup my hunters with one of my .338's I have to shoot my rifle on about one out of every 4 or 5 kills. I would say though that if I had a bow hunter I would be carrying my .458. Now you all have to admit that is the worst case situation when you combine close range and pissed off bear wich is a whole lot more likely at bow ranges and big bears with arrows in them.

About 99% of the hunters who have gotten hurt or worse by a bear have created the situation that led to the incident.

My reasoning for recommending calibers like the 30-06 for bear hunters is that twenty- eight years of guiding hunters for big bears has taught me that I am LESS likely to have to shoot a client's bear if they are using a caliber they can shoot than one they are afraid of. A bear shot through both lungs with a 180 gr bullet from a 30-06 is a hell of lot less dangerous than one that gets into the brush with a 400 gr 416 bullet in his guts.

The world's record bear was killed with a 30-06 and Hosea Sarber, the territorial bear hunter from the early 1900's who killed tons of big bears as well as guided hunters, owned a 375 but actually preferred his 30-06 for hunting them as he loved the rifle and felt it was all he needed - even on charging bears.

hunters are free to use what ever caliber they wish but the fact is - as I have been saying for thirty years - is that anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried on or is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

I hope to have my new Lon Paul custom 30-06 this spring and if so plan on carrying it as back up.

I'm with you Phil. One thought just crossed my mind and needs to be thrown out there as well.

In Frank Glassers book Alaskas Wolf Man. He liked his .220 swift but recomends against using it for bears. It seems it left something to be desired after he killed a few with his.

I would agree with that but I bet Lyn Keough ( not at all sure of spelling) was happy his hunting partner was there with a swift when that bear had his shoulder in it's mouth.

.........Ak,. Did he shoot the bear in the head with the Swift ...????????.....................Really what this debate illuminates is more where the bears are hunted and how ............I have never been much enthused at the long range bears ,, Regardless their skull size ,,, I mean ,,kill bears , what ever the range .,.,.,.,.,But like a bow kill isn,t a bow kill if the rifle had to assist ....I consider a little gun isn,t much for bragging if things wern,t controlled .......Kind of the PONDORO vs. BELL argument.....With a proper bear rifle you can get in 20 foot range ,,, NOT HAVE to cns the bear and yet totally control the situation .....I,ve killed bears a fair amount closer than 47 ft by the way ...........Since you northern and western guides cling to skull size for trophy value ....I think my way works better ...

A friend of mine who is a subsistence hunter and lives in NW Alaska has killed a few brown bears using Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54R and I don't think he owns a larger caliber rifle.

Rad

Technically, there are no brown bears in NW AK. I'm not trying to be picky but there is a big size difference between mtn grizzlies and coastal brown bears. Not that the Nagant couldn't kill a brown bear...

Many large animals are killed by subsistence hunters each year with stuff like .222's, mini-14's and AR15's, .243's, etc.

For some reason Phil always seems to knee jerk react to any thing larger than the 30/06 being unable to be shot well by a client ......But speaking of a 416 bullet in the guts of a bear ...What about after that first shot with a little caliber when the bear takes off , the bullets will have to transit the guts to reach the chest .....a 400 gr bullet from a 416 [ not my first pick ] will go thru the guts , thru the chest and out , making a good size hole and generally dumping the bear ......30 calibers don,t do that very often ...............................I am totally convinced after a year of reading his posts ..The reason for his insistence on clients using , shall we call them [runner cartridges] is he always plans on shooting his clients bear and so isn,t concerned if the client kills it or not as he PLANS to ...................Maybe he is [M.S.] of the north .,client shoots , he shoots , client shoots ,he shoots .....ect ........Then Boldly declares ,06 works great on ,[BIG ] bears ... ?????????????.After all how did he kill a dozen BIG [ always got to use the word BIG] bears with the 06 before he went to the 458 ???...........................But ,, If thats how he wants to run his bussiness , thats fine ,, I just hope his clients arn,t too disappointed when they have to share their kill with someone else ......after that guide recomended a sub adequate caliber ..........

Dear Gumboot:

I have not hunted dangerous game, including bear, and have asked for opinions on rifles, cartridges, etc. on this forum and elsewhere to educate myself, and to construct an adequate firearm.

Mr. Shoemaker suggested to me personally that a 338 Win. Mag. would be great as would a 35 Whelen, 358 Norma Magnum or 9.3x62 Mauser. He did not push me toward a 30-06, 7mm or anything outside a medium bore caliber.

I intend to build a 35 Whelen Ackley using a Rimrock stock, also per his recommendation, and a 350 Rem. Mag. with a walnut stock, just because I have an intermediate length 1924 Yugo laying around that someone opened the feed rails up, and I hate to leave it in the closet.

From all my conversations via e-mail and over the telephone, I have concluded that Mr. Shoemaker is a real gentleman, well educated and is still learning each day of his life.

When I have sufficient cash, I will certainly sign up for one of his brown bear hunts. I really doubt that he will shoot my bear because he wants to, nor will I give him reason to by being a less than proficient shot.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Will try to extract all the personality from previous posts and stick to the limited facts I know......

Last year's big brown surprised us by standing up in the shoulder high brush inside of 20 yards. And, the bear was even closer to my Aleut guide who was a step in front. There is something surreal about the visual of him pointing his 416 up at a ~20 degree angle at the bear hoping I'd shoot quick and get it right. But the thing that really got my heart beating was the urgency in his voice as he yelled "Break his neck! Break his neck!". Until then, I'd never heard him utter anything other than flat inflection in the two weeks we'd spent hunting together.

In the then and there, I don't think it would have mattered if I'd hit him in the lungs with my 460 Weatherby. With those pinned back ears, the beady eyed stare....his body language had "this is going to get physical" written all over it. Gumboot was right, it was CNS or cage match time.....

It wasn't "hard" to hit a tree trunk sized neck that close. But I count myself relieved that I was carrying a 375 H&H, and in the moment would have happily opted for the 460. If only for another second of "roll around on the ground" after the shot had I not connected with spine and carotid. Come to think of it, if an RPG was an option, I would have been happily pulling the trigger on it!

Placement is King. Bullet quality Queen. But, punch can be a nice ace in the hole.

gumboot, since you wish to make this personal and know who I am and my experience, will you at least introducing yourself so I know who is accusing me of suggesting that my clients bring a rifle that they can handle properly in order that I can shoot their bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Dear Gumboot:

I have not hunted dangerous game, including bear, and have asked for opinions on rifles, cartridges, etc. on this forum and elsewhere to educate myself, and to construct an adequate firearm.

Mr. Shoemaker suggested to me personally that a 338 Win. Mag. would be great as would a 35 Whelen, 358 Norma Magnum or 9.3x62 Mauser. He did not push me toward a 30-06, 7mm or anything outside a medium bore caliber.

I intend to build a 35 Whelen Ackley using a Rimrock stock, also per his recommendation, and a 350 Rem. Mag. with a walnut stock, just because I have an intermediate length 1924 Yugo laying around that someone opened the feed rails up, and I hate to leave it in the closet.

From all my conversations via e-mail and over the telephone, I have concluded that Mr. Shoemaker is a real gentleman, well educated and is still learning each day of his life.

When I have sufficient cash, I will certainly sign up for one of his brown bear hunts. I really doubt that he will shoot my bear because he wants to, nor will I give him reason to by being a less than proficient shot.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

....Yale ,,Obviously Phil has operated a guide service for a long time and to do so he must have alot of satisfied customer ...........I also advocate the medium bores [338 on up ] ...But if you really want an exciting time , and the opportunity presents itself , try to get in way close ,,,well within bow range .,.,...chances are if you do that the bear will know you are there and his adrenalin will be up or at least the bear probably won,t be [CALM] ........................That is bear huntin ....bear hunting ,IN MY OPINION , shouldn,t be like sheep , deer , or caribou hunting ........It should be more like topping timber ,. or free rock climbing ,or sky diving ., or something that makes you VERY awake ...........The situation doesn,t always present it self but if it does , I just want to encourage every body to take full advantage of the situation and be a good shot with a big rifle ..........because in that situation perfect shot presentations may not be available and the smaller calibers [ie pos06] don,t work too well often ................................I,m glad you found Mr Shoemaker well educated , [ like that has any bearing on getting up close to a brown bear ] ......

Dear Gumboot:

The quality of the hunting/guiding service is dependent on the man or woman running it. In this case, I would not have a second thought about choosing Mr. Shoemaker's oufit.

How he suggests to hunt or my desire in getting real close to a bear is irrelevant to your charge that he wants to shoot his client's bears.

Might be time to hire a lawyer, sir.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Anyone who has ever been bear hunting with me knows that I prefer to be 50 yards or closer before shooting. My job is not to get close enough for the client to hit the bear but to get them close enough they can't miss. I do this not because I wish to shoot their bear but so that I will NOT have to shoot their bear. That is also why I recommend they bring a rifle and caliber that they can shoot well.

gumboot, Who ever you are - how do you know that the 30-06 doesn't work well on close bears?
how many up close bears have you used it on? where were they hit? what bullets were you using? and just how did it fail ?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
gumboot, since you wish to make this personal and know who I am and my experience, will you at least introducing yourself so I know who is accusing me of suggesting that my clients bring a rifle that they can handle properly in order that I can shoot their bear.

...........................No Phil ,, I love the ananimity ..........It,s not personal ,, I just strongly feel you like to portray yourself as the last word in brown bear hunting ...............While really you hunt very open country ................In a fall bear season , how many clients will you yourself guide , and how many of their bears will you put a bullet into ???and why ....And don,t say because they were shooting something bigger than an 06 .....Most hunters can,t even shoot an 06 well??????? I have known bear guides who were in the business alot longer than you have been and had alot more dead bears to their credit than you .......They advocated , medium and large caliber rifles .Not 06s .........Unfortunately they have passed away and so can,t put forth their experience and knowledge ... ..,.,., ....You have still not explained how it is that clients are unable to handle a large caliber rifle .,., ...Or is it that there is a good chance they will need to shoot their bear at well over 100 yrds and there by mitigate some of the advantage of the larger calibers ...,....

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Dear Gumboot:



Might be time to hire a lawyer, sir.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

........................For public discussion ????? Might be time for you to take your lawyer and stick him where the sun don,t shine ...................

Gumboot - you are Somebody with 1500 post who loves anonimity _ Doesn't know how many bear hunters I have guided or how long I have been at it but has known guides who guided longer and killed more bears but who unfortunately have passed away - and who obviously knows more about filling big bears up close with a 30-06 than anyone else.
My hat's off to you sir and when you will tell me who you are I will gladly communicate more with you more but until then I prefer to talk with real people.

Dear Gumboot:

I am a lawyer, although no longer practicing in Pennsylvania. At one point, not too long ago, I was an expert in defamation.

It's up to Mr. Shoemaker now.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Gumboot
I'm starting to understad a little bit more where your coming from. I would have to agree if my intent was to get close enough to the bear to smell before I shot then I would be choosing something with lots of horsepower.

I find that ranges from 50 to about 150 yards give the hunter (and guide) alot of control in the situation. A big part of hunting anything is setting yourself up for the shot so maybe your style of hunting dictates what gun your using rather than saying that a bear requires one minimum cal for all situations.

I almost always backup my hunters with one of my .338's I have to shoot my rifle on about one out of every 4 or 5 kills. I would say though that if I had a bow hunter I would be carrying my .458. Now you all have to admit that is the worst case situation when you combine close range and pissed off bear wich is a whole lot more likely at bow ranges and big bears with arrows in them.

About 99% of the hunters who have gotten hurt or worse by a bear have created the situation that led to the incident.

...........

AK..................Your last sentence is what I have always been talking about ........I guess I just viewed it totally different than others because of how close things can get here in southeast , not just my style of hunting .................A gut ,only shot with a large bore isn,t much better killer than a gut only shot with an 06 ...,.,.,...People seem to get all set up with a 375 or larger to hunt Cape Buffalo , but want to hunt bears that hopefully will be nearly as big as a buffalo with an 06 .. ........ ,And a good part of the 99% were hit in a spot that wasn,t immediately incapacitating often by less optimum calibers and bullets ..........................................

Gumboot,

Your adversarial tone in addition to your nearly illegible writing, anonymous signature, and un proven skill, experience and technique all add up to giving you zero credibility.

For all anyone on AR knows, you are just another internet hero.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Gumboot,

Your adversarial tone in addition to your nearly illegible writing, anonymous signature, and un proven skill, experience and technique all add up to giving you zero credibility.

For all anyone on AR knows, you are just another internet hero.

I gotta chime in here as well. I totally agree with Scott & Phil on this one. Who the hxxx are you to come in on this or any other forum and within a year have over 1500 postings, few of which anyone can read? We've had numerous braggarts on board before - Morty is the troll that most readily comes to mind.
Hows about trying to "can it" a bit in the future? There are a lot more guys here on the board with more experience than what you show. There!!! I've written it. Bear in Fairbanks

There are so many different variables that go into killing game that it seems senseless to fight about whether a 30-06 or a .375 is more proper for hunting bears.

Take out your dial calipers (I just took out mine) and look at how wide 67 thousandths is. (difference between .308 and .375). Looks pretty insignificant to me.

Much more important, at least in my mind, would be, as has been said, where you hit the animal, and what you hit the animal with in the spot where you hit the animal, and even more important than where you hit the animal, what did you hit inside the animal.

So bullet quality is important as well, but what you hit inside that animal is most important. If you hit the right blood vessels that animal is going to die of shock, and if you hit the right joints that animal is not going to move, and if you hit the right organs that animal is also going to die from a shut down of body processes.

Sometimes it is a matter of mere millimeters between hitting the decending Aorta and missing it, meaning that the animal will die of shock, or will run thousands of yards or more and not die at all. You gotta get in there where it counts with a good bullet, whether its a 30-06 or a .375.

Take a look at those calipers and see what 67 thousandths looks like.

Personally, I like my 375, but if I'm going to be carrying a load I take my (much lighter) 30-06 with 220 noslers.

I agree that dangerous game hunting should be a close range affair, because shot placement is so critical on an animal that can bite back, not for any other reason. I try to get as close as I need to to feel comfortable making a 2nd shot at a running bear should the first one not do the job.

Close as I need to (ideally 30-50 for me) is a big difference from "as close as I can." I don't think of bear hunting as some sort of thrill seeking, I'm-a-rad-extreme-dude finding myself quest.

quote:

It should be more like topping timber ,. or free rock climbing ,or sky diving

I like Gumboot's posts because they offer a very unique and much different perspective on the world than my own, but this is a Timothy Treadwell sitution in the making that can only end one way, seeing how close you can get to Mr Chocolate and his friends rather than close enough to ensure a quick very high % kill.

Bob

I vote we stop bashing gumboot for his literary skills. Two things to consider here is that it has no reflection on his knowledge of bear hunting but more importantly I'll be next.

I do think it's a bit over the top surmising what Phills intentions are by reccomending certain calibers. I personally have faith that phill has his hunters wellbeing in mind. He dose have a reputation for that coming from inside the industry.

PDog Shooter is right on....stand next to a large coastal brown bear and tell me your 25-06 or deer rifle or 30-06 is enough gun...you simply have no idea...to me, I lived in Alaska and have seen them up close and personal...and the 375 is good with a 338 and 250gr Partitions as a minimum.
Even the 416 is fine...think of when Murphy hits the fan...will you be ready all by yourself...?

Gumboot, I see that you are stirring up trouble again. I know it's difficult to be humble, but at least try. If you appologized to Phil, it might be appreciated, and get things on track with discussion, rather than making it personal. Go ahead, let's see if you can do it.

I have heard the stories of folks up north using mini 14s and mini 30s to shoot moose and bear, but never witnessed it first hand. That seems rather radical to me. But shooting a 30-06 doesn't seem radical or foolish. It will obviously get the job done, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

As an analogy, recently I took a CZ in 7.62x39 hog hunting in Texas, and found out what my logic already knew. The cartridge is at the lower threshold of enough to be sure of doing the job expediently.

Saying it another way: I got a quick reminder of how much I dislike following a blood trail into the thick stuff, not knowing for sure whether the hog is down for good or not.

Yes, Gumboot, I know you told me so, and really I was listening, but for a long time I had been wanting to try the 7.62x39. Now I'm satisfied, but I may try it again just for the heck of it. It sure is fun to shoot and accurate too. Then again, I may just use it to hunt squirrels when I retire down south.

For the same reason, and the possibility of getting really hurt, I would put the 06 for big bear in the same class as the 7.62x39 is for hogs. Sure it will kill the animal, but the probabilities are not so much in my favor as I would like. One could make the argument of shot placement, and getting close all day, and that wouldn't change my mind about this even a little. I'm a pretty good shot, and I had a rest, and the hog still ran off, and I never did find it.

Incidentally, the bear I shot with my 9.3x62 didn't even get up, but I did shoot it more than once, just to make sure.

If I can, I'm going after a big black bear this spring, and my 30-06 is staying home. Instead I'll take my 338, or perhaps the 9.3mm. Of course, most likely I won't have a backup, or a guide who is willing to follow my bear into the devils club for me, and I sure don't want to. Hopefully I'll find one in the grass along the beach and drop him right there. That's enough excitment for me.

KB

I tend to side with Phil on this topic.
I have spent countless hours at our local rifle range and witnessed MANY magnum debacles. Most of these with just a puny 300 mag, a few with 338's. These guys were so scared of the rifles kick that from the bench on 100 yd targets they were barely able to hit the standard target let alone group anything. I sure in the hell would not want to be guiding that Cheechako when the time comes to shoot a big Brown Bear (bullet in the guts guaranteed).
Better he uses that non magnum 06, 35 Whelen, 9.3X62, etc and gets it in the vitals because he is concentrating on the shot and not flinching or pissing himself over the rifles impending kick and roar!
The number of fellas that can nonchalantly fire the big mediums or Ele rifles are slim pickins indeed.
If your honest on your recoil limits and work within them, you'll be more satisfied and successful in the long run.
It will make the guides life a little easier too.

Yea, I know what you mean about shooting a rifle that you can handle. But, honestly to me the 9.3x62, and 338WM don't kick any more that a 12 guage with 3" shells.

Also, there is a difference between hunting with a guide and hunting without one as backup. Generally I have no backup, and I would rather not deal with the consequenses of needing one, and not having one. So, I'm more comfortable with the medium bores. They are still managable, but just have a lot more thump.

Choosing or recommending for clients is something outside my experience. I don't like hunting with jumpy people who don't appear to be able to handle their rifle. I sure wouldn't like guiding one either. That might make me jumpy too, and after a while, if I was determined to stay in the business, I too might resign myself to letting the client bring whatever he felt comfortable shooting, and learn to deal with it -- even if it meant planning on a finishing shot from whatever I was carrying -- wich incidentally in that scenerio would probably be a 375 somethingorother, or bigger.

KB

i would still like to know if 458 's 06 kills were first shots or backup shots, which would begin to clear up this delima. anybody who has ever hunted anything knows your heart rate is going up when you see the big one . ive got a video of a guy who takes so long to shoot a grouse with a shotgun i think it laid an egg before he shot. your bench rest accuracy has just gone out the window when your heart rate goes up, ask your range master on that one. i hear so much about shot placement but you are shootin at a fairly large target like heart lungs and it is probably moving, so now you are depending on bullet performance. so can somebody not tell me about how many yrs guiding but talk about how what they have acually seen the guns do on the first shot. what percent of 30's atcually put then down without a second shot or how far do they run

Several years ago, when I first moved to Alaska, I became friends with an older gentleman, who was the real deal. He was in his seventies then, and has since passed away. He came to Alaska from Montana, and I can't remember when, but I think it was in the 50s. Anyway he loved the pre-64 mod 70, and had several, some were full custom rifles. But his favorite was one of the early 338 Alaskan Mod 70s.

He told me why it was his favorite. He used to go sheep hunting in his younger years, and his favorite then was the 270. He believed everything O'conner ever wrote. He killed moose, sheep, black bear and such with it to his complete satisfaction. This guy was a real hunter, from the old days, and he could shoot, and he and I went to the range often.

He told me that one fall he was out moose hunting, and watching a grassy place near a lake, and he saw a big brown bear come out on the other side, about 90 - 100 yards away. So he shot it.

You would have to have been there to gain full appreciation of his telling of this story, but I'll try. He said that bear, spun around, roaring and biting at whatever had hurt him, so my friend shot him again, thinking surely the bear would go down. Well, after the third shot, the bear figured out where the pain was really coming from, and charged full blast. After the fifth shot the gun was empty and the bear was still coming. Extra shell were in my friend's pocket. He said he had shells all over the ground, and in the grass before he could get one pointed toward the chamber. He killed that bear with the sixth shot -- in the head at about 15 feet.

He said he was so shook up, and his knees were shaking so badly that it took him a while before he could just stand up properly. Then he found some more shells in the grass, loaded the rifle and shot the bear two more times, even though it wasn't moving by then.

So, he said that he liked the Mod 70 because he could chamber a round and fire it with grass and dirt in there as well. I don't know if he was joking or not, and never tried it myself. But he put the 270 aside as a deer rifle, and went out the next week and bought the 338 Mod 70. He said shooting that brown bear with the 270 was the biggest mistake he ever made while hunting, and he would never do that again.

KB

There have been a few guides, including one on Kodiak, that liked their 270's as bear rifles and got away with it as well. For fifty or sixty years the 30-06 was THE Alaskan guide's rifle of choice. And like I say, Hosea Sarber, who probably killed as many bears as any man, claimed in print (see the April 1947 American Rifleman magazine) to own and have used his 375 but PREFERRED his 30-06, even on charging bears.
i don't go that far but have used my 30-06 to kill six that my hunters had hit in non-vital spots (two were only hit in the lower legs) and I seldom had to shoot more than once to put the bears down. Of course I hit them in my favorite spot - which is high, directly between both shoulders.
I have even used the 06 to stop one actual charge at six feet. Killing bears is easier from the front as all the vitals are exposed - if the bear is not full frontal then you are in no danger - and at close range the vitals are a mighty big target.
I have preached this for so long I now it must be tiring but
ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS NOT EFFECTIVE HAS EITHER NEVER USED ONE OR IS UNWITTINGLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP.

As true as that may be, I have always recommended that anyone who hunts dangerous game should use as large a rifle as they can handle.
My favorite bear rifle is my 458 Win but experience has taught me that BEING OVERGUNNED CAN BE AS BAD A BEING UNDERGUNNED.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Gumboot,

Your adversarial tone in addition to your nearly illegible writing, anonymous signature, and un proven skill, experience and technique all add up to giving you zero credibility.

For all anyone on AR knows, you are just another internet hero.

I gotta chime in here as well. I totally agree with Scott & Phil on this one. Who the hxxx are you to come in on this or any other forum and within a year have over 1500 postings, few of which anyone can read? We've had numerous braggarts on board before - Morty is the troll that most readily comes to mind.
Hows about trying to "can it" a bit in the future? There are a lot more guys here on the board with more experience than what you show. There!!! I've written it. Bear in Fairbanks

..............................Bear , Do you own this forum ,?,Do you pay for advertising on this forum ? Does this forum have a moderator ? Has he given me the boot , [ which certainly is his right to do if he chooses] ...This is a public forum ...................It is my right to express my opinions as it yours to do like wise.......If you disagree with me ,,,,SO...,.But I will still express my opinion ............I don,t sell my opinions to magazine s or some other form of commercial service as some on this forum do and potentially gain an amount of free advertising ..........Nuthin wrong with that if this forum,s benefactor doesn,t object ........Since I think there is plenty or room for other people to share their thots ,I wouldn,t think I was impeding that ,,,,It is a free country you know ..........So since I very much enjoy my freedom of typeing away to my hearts content , and you don,t like reading my posts , why not just put me on ignore .... .......One of the single best things ive read on all of Accurate Reloading .com forums , was a line from Idaho Sharpshooter ,,it went like this ,,,If you don,t like it [don,t read it ] ...........................

.Maybe I,m just stupid [being a timber faller ,carpenter ,bulk carrier super cargo and construction laborer ] I may be ,but I would think that with the litterly INFINITE amount of topics that any member of Accurate Reloading.com forums can start and participate in ...If there is a thread who,s very heading has someones handle in it that person didn,t like,,, why would they bother to read it..........................Why not start their own discussion thread ?? .................................I think some of you are confusing [good ole boys, , the cool ones , ]] with public discussion forums that are open to the whole world ...............Are yall the [THOUGHT POLICE ] ????????????????????????????????????????????? I do find it interesting that Mr Shoemaker hasn,t replied about the bears he says he has taken with the 30/06 ..............Same questions I asked about the monster bear that Jake Jefferson posted pics of ....Just simple descriptions of the kills , How big was the bear , how far away was the bear , where was the bear hit ,how many times was the bear shot before it stopped moving , post postmortems ect ......The normal things alot of people like to talk about concerning a bear kill ???????????? I,m real sorry this has basically got into such a shouting match .................................................................................It appears some people don,t say too much if they can,t sell it for money or influence ...........Nuthin wrong with that , as its a free country ......