quote:

Originally posted by mlfguns:
I don't live in AK. but hunted there a few. Here's my 2 cents worth.

People hunted in bad weather areas with blued steel and walnut before any stainless steel and tupperware stocks became the fad.
Wet inclement conditions demand maintenance, no way around it.
You have to keep all metal surfaces PROPERLY cleaned and lubed. Taking into account the extreme freezing weather and what will freeze your moving metal parts.
Stainless Steel does rust, it just takes longer than Carbon Steel. With Ceracoating and similar coatings, made it much easier to maintain. They have been tested against salt water immersion etc... and have been proven superior. With coatings, metal material are equal.
Make sure to have ALL the metal coated to limit the problems.
If your rifle takes a special tool to disassemble the bolt. Get it. take it with you to use in camp and most important, learn how to use it quickly and effiecently. Take the proper allen wrenches or screw driver to disasseble the barreled action for maintenance or to check scope bases and ring screws.
The metal that is not visible to the naked eye is the hardest to asses and maintain. The bore can rust easily or have obstruction. Keep in camp a cleaning rod and bore snake. Run a patch through the bore and check for color and lightly oil and wipe off. The bore cleaning can throw your first cold shot lightly. You are not hunting praire dogs, whatever minute changes are worth it.

Walnut stocks that are PROPERLY sealed everywhere including the bedding areas are not a disadvantage. A wood factory stock that has a quick cheap coat on the exterior surface is.

Wood is quieter and does not resonate like hollow plastic. It is much easier to tolerate in extreme weather on your extremities. It cannot become brittle or soft in hot weather. IF the stock get some character, big deal.

Scopes is another disputed subject. I prefer Leupold low fixed power scopes. I don't need 30 or 34mm. 1" is plenty and light weight aluminum tubing handles the weather and recoil much better than the hubble telescopes. No extra parralax adjustment dials/water funnels needed. My favorite as of late is the Leupold M8 4x28mm long tube. Fits all the actions and various LOP's. About $150. Save the difference and put it into binoculars and Helly Hansens Impertech rain gear.

We are all bombarded by successful marketers for the newest and greatest. Let reason be your guide and don't let equipment choice stop you from going hunting.

Sorry mlfguns, I totally disagree with you on wood stocks. I don't care what you do to them, they will never be as impervious as a synthetic stock.

Well maybe not as absolutely impervious but I have a post 64 (1965) Winchester model 70 .338 thats seen a lot of yearly Pacific Northwest rain and snow and it's never changed zero because of it. Those old shiny plastic finishes they put on gun stocks back then work very well even if they don't match what some think a classic rifle should look like. Remington's RKW bowling ball finish is a great example of a really durable stock coating.

Yes the blueing is pretty worn and yes there's some rust spots that later needed a little steel wool to remove but who cares? It does today what it's always done, shoot straight and be reliable. I'm not into fashion, I'm more into function. Seems to me a lot of people today don't want or don't know how to maintain their equipment in the field. That said a good stainless steel synthetic rifle is very practical but don't discount the oldies if that's what you got.

Last night I was reading through some of my old journals / diaries on my Alaska adventures in hunting 30 years ago.
I did two hunts in particular up NE of Kotzebue off tributaries of the Noatak river where a friend of mine and I hunted and rafted along that steam for 15 days hunting Caribou and moose. No guide! I was young, strong and a very competent outdoorsman. The hunts were in late August/ early September.
What I noted on practically every day I wrote down that I was very tired when I got back to camp. I do recall after a short evening meal I went to bed quickly.
My point here in my case is I probably was not to interested in have to take any more attention to things that might be avoided including maintenance on equipment. Sleeping on the ground in a two man tent for 15 days is pretty rough on you not to mention humping moose meat through endless fields of "N" heads.
I might mention those adventures back in the late 80's and early 90's cost me an average of $2,500.00. That included all my hunting tags. Air fare to Kotzebue and back and the bush plane to and from our final destination.
Reading those journals last night brought back a lot of memories.
In a nut shell on these type adventures, take as good equipment as you can afford and think "Light weight". Think about your feet and maintenance on them.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Last night I was reading through some of my old journals / diaries on my Alaska adventures in hunting 30 years ago.
I did two hunts in particular up NE of Kotzebue off tributaries of the Noatak river where a friend of mine and I hunted and rafted along that steam for 15 days hunting Caribou and moose. No guide! I was young, strong and a very competent outdoorsman. The hunts were in late August/ early September.
What I noted on practically every day I wrote down that I was very tired when I got back to camp. I do recall after a short evening meal I went to bed quickly.
My point here in my case is I probably was not to interested in have to take any more attention to things that might be avoided including maintenance on equipment. Sleeping on the ground in a two man tent for 15 days is pretty rough on you not to mention humping moose meat through endless fields of "N" heads.
I might mention those adventures back in the late 80's and early 90's cost me an average of $2,500.00. That included all my hunting tags. Air fare to Kotzebue and back and the bush plane to and from our final destination.
Reading those journals last night brought back a lot of memories.
In a nut shell on these type adventures, take as good equipment as you can afford and think "Light weight". Think about your feet and maintenance on them.

EZ

EZ:

Wow, I hunted a lot in the mid 80s out of Kotz, except I flew to Kiana and hired a transporter who lived there. Hunted along the Squirrel River. Those were the days!

I recall one trip where it rained/snowed constantly for a week. We had three guys in a three man tent (yea, it was crowded). The tent had standing water in it. Totally miserable - in fact, probably the most miserable week I have ever had hunting.

High quality misery is what Alaskans do best !

Misery is the stories we retell to dazzle.

I always leave the telling of dazzling stories to the clients !

Lol not me, I got six kids to put in bed and they all want dazzling stories!

I like to bring out my old Kodak slide projector to add to the dazzle.
Aludes to my "vintage".
I could write for ever about those trips.
It was so remote where we were that I remember when the wind stopped blowing the silence was erie. Real wilderness. Hoping a storm did not blow in and leave you stranded if your pilot could not get back in.
We flew into a little lake off Seagull creek and rafted down to the Noatak where we were picked up. Hunt a few days in a spot and move down stream. We were always successful and I believe the reason we were as that there was no hunting pressure. Most people were smarter than we were and stayed away from the "N" heads.
The Caribou and Moose did not mind them.
The Kelly River; a tributary of the Noatak west of us was gaining fame as a hot spot for 70" moose.
I have one story I always tell family that has nothing to do with hunting.
On my second trip up there in 1991 we were picked up at the end of the hunt on the Noatak and stayed in a plywood shack that my hunting buddy (native Alaskan) called a "Cabin" ??? It was probably 12' X 12' with two beds a fold out table and a pot bellied stove but was the Waldorf Astoria after sleeping in that 2 man tent for 14 days.
It belonged to a somewhat religious guy named Abraham Horowitz. A sort of untold law up there is that anyone can use these remote shacks for shelter.
There was a box built into the wall and a sign that said please leave note if you stayed here.
I spent all night reading these stories all on the front and back of paper plates. It just captivated me in the adventures that passed through those cabin doors over 20 years.
One story in particular was written by a guy named "Walking Jack". The story began as he decided to begin a walking journey one summer from Yukon and cross northern Alaska and end his trip in the village of Noatak about 60 miles down stream of the cabin. There was a lot of detail to his adventure and to much to write here but it was unforgetable.
About two years later I was at my parents home for Christmas and my mother took Readers Digest.
She said there was a story in a recent volume that she thought I would enjoy.
Low in behold it was Walking Jacks story but the author was not Walking Jack.
Someone removed that story on those paper plates from that cabin and submitted it to Readers Digest and Readers Digest published it.
I wrote Readers Digest with a picture of the box on the wall from which the story was in Abrahams Horowitz's cabin. Told them their author was a fraud. I never heard anything back from them.
This guy said he was Minnesota and Walking Jack was an Alaskan who claimed his name from walking across the country.
It must have been a great story to be published in a national periodical....I had the opportunity to read it in its true unedited form, written in ink in its proper home prior to reaching the masses. Little "cabin the tundra" In the middle of no where above the Arctic Circle.

EZ

I love those old “cabins”! I was in one around cold bay once and all the writing was on the walls of all the past hunts. I laid in bed with a flashlight that night just reading thru all the stories, great history to places and so much fun to read.
Once a boat stopped by our bear camp to sit out a storm and came in for coffee. It was an old native guy, he sat by the oil drip stove nursing a hot cup of coffee staring off into a small flickering candle lantern...then he began to talk. Stories of the old ways and the old people. You don’t talk. You just listen. Moments like that don’t come by everyday.

Nothing to do with a rifle. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

Sorry mlfguns, I totally disagree with you on wood stocks. I don't care what you do to them, they will never be as impervious as a synthetic stock.

Pure and simple.

Absolutely.

While I am certainly a proponent of using the best tool for the job and in 1980 was likely the first guide to build and carry a hunting rifle with a synthetic stock. But I am also fond of classic rifles built with wood and blued steel.
They still work as well as ever and if using them adds to your overall enjoyment of the hunt there is no reason not to use them. They simply require a little more diligence.

quote:

Once a boat stopped by our bear camp to sit out a storm and came in for coffee. It was an old native guy, he sat by the oil drip stove nursing a hot cup of coffee staring off into a small flickering candle lantern...then he began to talk. Stories of the old ways and the old people. You don’t talk. You just listen. Moments like that don’t come by everyday.

Having experiences like that, or seeing beautiful country, always wish we had a hard drive in our head that you could flick a switch and replay those things. But that's the treasure of it.

I do like the salt and pepper (black and gray) laminated stocks with SS barrel and action.

Ruger did a few 375 Rugers with 20 and 23 inch barrels. I got one with 23 inch barrel. Riluger use to put a lot of rifles together like this.

Winchester-FN did a run of Alaskans with a laminated salt and pepper stock with SS barrel and action.

I wanted one in 30/06 in the worst way and never could find one. Before moving on to the 270 X2. I know they were offered in 30/06, 375 HH, and 338WM in that configuration.

Similar after market stocks I have seen are just too bulky.

I have a laminated stock from Stocky's that I was going to put on my .416 but I never did because the walnut stock is bedded and it shoots great. But if I ever took my .416 to AK, that would be the stock I would use. It isn't bulky at all, but I wish I would have got one with checkering; it is pretty slick.

Thank you all for these posts. At this point I am leaning toward
Montana Rifle Company for the stainless steel action to wind up
with a .375 H&H rifle. I am lanky, long arms and neck. I think I
need a stock more like a Manners T or T3, as opposed to the standard
MRC V2 Stock. I'm starting a new thread on that stock subject. See
the next thread here:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...5832&a=tpc&f=4711043

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Thank you all for these posts. At this point I am leaning toward
Montana Rifle Company for the stainless steel action to wind up
with a .375 H&H rifle. I am lanky, long arms and neck. I think I
need a stock more like a Manners T or T3, as opposed to the standard
MRC V2 Stock. I'm starting a new thread on that stock subject. See
the next thread here:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...5832&a=tpc&f=4711043

I am a lanky, tallish fellow. The comb on my 2 is too low for perfect check weld, eye-scope alignment. However, if the rifle had iron site it would have been perfect for iron sits.

Arizona: The Ruger factory stock had checkering. But I bnever heard or saw them do it in 416 Ruger. They use to do all No 1 SS with that laminated stock. And a lot of the catalogue had a sister laminated and SS. However, as Ruger streamlined those were the first to be sacrificed to cheaper and black.

I just sent my rifle to Mark Brown to be displayed at his SCI Booth.
It's a little Brown Precision, 300 WM his father built in 1982. It's hunted Alaska for 35 years, been all over the world, filled trophy room with over 200 animals and really is the prefect gun for Alaska.
Stainless with composite stock, nice and light to carry, tough as you can make them and shoots MOA. Killed Marco Polo ram at 1 Kilometer, per the range finder.

My wood and blue rifles have all been thru the worst of it over the years that can be and actually survived, but it took way more care every evening and a hard headiness to do it...My 338 Win is the African and its blue and wood, but I do have an old boat paddle Ruger stock that fits it that I got gifted with by a fine gentleman on AR..I switch it out sometimes when the snow flys in Idaho.

I would have often liked a Ruger African in stainless 375 Ruger or H&H with the old boat paddle stock but at my age its no longer needed because when the snow is on the ground and the temp is below zero, Im home in front of the fire drinking lots of coffee to my cardiologists pain and concern, and if I get out in that kind of weather I will be in the pickup with spot and stalk in mind and I can even legally shoot from the pickup for that matter, they give you a tag for a buck and a half allowing you to shoot out the window of your pickup at my age in Idaho, Ive earned it. and have no problem with shooting my yearly cow elk, loading her up in the pickup and hauling her to B&L for meat and jerky once again making the heart doc smile with glee because Im not eating beef.

If I had it to do over, I would have a couple of SS guns with composite (boatpaddle is my favorite because it so damn tough) in a 30-06 and a larger clone like a .338 win or 375..

Makes no sense to me to use an ugly rifle because you're afraid of making a pretty rifle ugly and then you would have to use an ugly rifle.

Anyone have experience with a Kimber Talkeetna?

I traded for one in .375 H&H to use to hunt bear with Phil one of these days.

I have admired those at SHOT and SCI for a number of years and think they would be just the ticket.

I've abuse/stress tested ALOT of rifles . Rem, Savage, Sako, CZ, Winchester, Interarms, Ruger and Springfield, Enfield, and military 98 Mauser . Know of Weatherby's that have.

Hands down , the single toughest, won't break down or look much worse than it did originally is the M77 Mk2 stainless steel canoe paddle Ruger. And along side it the Stainless Hawkeye.
Next toughest was the military triggered 98 Mauser and 1917/P14 Enfield actions.
The only problem I ever had with a Ruger crf ss action was the fireing pin spring. It was blued steel . After a year of salt spray and at least 10 full submersions and no cleaning. The fireing pin spring rusted enough so it wouldn't allow the gun to fire.
I pulled the bolt apart . Scrubed it with a wire brush in a coffee can of saw gas , then a can of diesel fuel for about 5 minutes . rinsed it off with gas . put a 45 cal cleaning brush on 1 section of cleaning rod . chucked that up in my electric drill and scrubbed out the bolt with diesel fuel.
Wiped it all down with light gun oil and put it all back together. Worked like new. . Later when I discovered Corrosion Block © I cleaned it and sprayed it down with CB.
The stainless Shilen barrel on my 458 has proven to be very corrosion resistent.
I have yet to damage a Ruger " canoe paddle " stock.

For a tough dependable rifle, you want big robust internal parts. Fancy , adjustable triggers with sideplates and tiny levers and springs stop working under tough conditions . Little plunger electors fail and can't be fixed out in the brush. Rotating extractors have a tendency to cut through the rim of a case , leaving you with a plugged chamber.
There is a reason why trench warfare bolt action rifles were built the way they were.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Anyone have experience with a Kimber Talkeetna?

I traded for one in .375 H&H to use to hunt bear with Phil one of these days.

How does the Talketna differ from the Montana. I should be picking up one by the end of the month in 338 Winchester.
It will be my first crf non Ruger in a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Put a teflon, ceracoat, or plasma type coating on a stainless rifle with a plastic on strong laminate stock.
In some regards I like the laminate as it does not make a scratchy noise going through brush like a plastic one but it is heavier.
Take some duct take of electrical tape to put over you muzzle.
Lens caps for your scope and there are lens wipes that will help with the external fogging issue.
Remove your muzzle break if you have one.
Any idea what might happen if you pull the trigger with one filled with ice??

Better the muzzle break than inside the barrel. I've seen a couple rifles where the kdf style muzzle brake got blown off . They sheared off at the closest to the barrel set of holes. The barrel was unaffected in those 2 incidences. Not much of a sample group. But I use muzzle brakes on most of my hunting rifles. I tape over the whole thing with at least 2 layers of tape.
The way I look at it , the brake protects the crown. If somehow the brake gets messed up they can be unscrewed with a pipe wrench or pair of Channel locks or vise grips. It might look funny, but the rifle will still work fine.
Others experiences may vary .
I've used my knuckles on hollow synthetic butt stocks . To make something of a sound like a bull moose's paddle . In combo with grunting. Didn't call in any monster moose , but did keep some cows and a couple meat bulls that had alerted to a friend and I from running off and spooking everything in the area.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Anyone have experience with a Kimber Talkeetna?

I traded for one in .375 H&H to use to hunt bear with Phil one of these days.

How does the Talketna differ from the Montana. I should be picking up one by the end of the month in 338 Winchester.
It will be my first crf non Ruger in a long time.

Kimber just likes to name stuff different names. As far as I know, the Talkeetna is the same setup as the Montana, just a longer action for the 375HH.

Ok. Thank You !!
I've been looking at this particular rifle for over a year at a local store. I liked it and figured someone would snap it up. They didn't so I put it on layaway at Christmas. Planning on putting a Viper PST 2 , 2-10 mil mil on it. I've been wanting another 338 for quite a while. Got a good price on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

But I use muzzle brakes on most of my hunting rifles. I tape over the whole thing with at least 2 layers of tape.
The way I look at it , the brake protects the crown. If somehow the brake gets messed up they can be unscrewed ...

Great point.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Last night I was reading through some of my old journals / diaries on my Alaska adventures in hunting 30 years ago.
I did two hunts in particular up NE of Kotzebue off tributaries of the Noatak river where a friend of mine and I hunted and rafted along that steam for 15 days hunting Caribou and moose. No guide! I was young, strong and a very competent outdoorsman. The hunts were in late August/ early September.
What I noted on practically every day I wrote down that I was very tired when I got back to camp. I do recall after a short evening meal I went to bed quickly.
My point here in my case is I probably was not to interested in have to take any more attention to things that might be avoided including maintenance on equipment. Sleeping on the ground in a two man tent for 15 days is pretty rough on you not to mention humping moose meat through endless fields of "N" heads.
I might mention those adventures back in the late 80's and early 90's cost me an average of $2,500.00. That included all my hunting tags. Air fare to Kotzebue and back and the bush plane to and from our final destination.
Reading those journals last night brought back a lot of memories.
In a nut shell on these type adventures, take as good equipment as you can afford and think "Light weight". Think about your feet and maintenance on them.

EZ

Is there another name for "N" heads? I'm guessing the "N" is offensive.

Thank you.

Tussocks. Or turtle shells.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Tussocks. Or turtle shells.

Good to know.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Anyone have experience with a Kimber Talkeetna?

I traded for one in .375 H&H to use to hunt bear with Phil one of these days.

How does the Talketna differ from the Montana. I should be picking up one by the end of the month in 338 Winchester.
It will be my first crf non Ruger in a long time.

Kimber just likes to name stuff different names. As far as I know, the Talkeetna is the same setup as the Montana, just a longer action for the 375HH.

Is the Montana a blind magazine rifle?

Montana is blind box magazine. Newest Montana model is threaded for surpressor. They also have no iron sights.

Whatever you choose, just send the whole thing to Birdsong in Missouri(?). His Black-T finish treats everything including springs and screws, doesn't cause any changes in dimensions, and is guaranteed to hold up to any weather condition. IIRC it survived a 4000 hour salt- spray test when the .gov was testing it. Only thing it doesn't cover is the rifling. Get it treated and never look back.

Some peoples children don't know the difference in use and abuse..I use the crap out of my wood and blue custom rifles, scars happen, gouges happen, wear happens, but its honest use, and everyone of those scars has a memory, that's worth the trouble for me...A plastic Stainless steel rifle is a tool, has no heart or soul, something you just can't explain to some dumb bastard!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Some peoples children don't know the difference in use and abuse..I use the crap out of my wood and blue custom rifles, scars happen, gouges happen, wear happens, but its honest use, and everyone of those scars has a memory, that's worth the trouble for me...A plastic Stainless steel rifle is a tool, has no heart or soul, something you just can't explain to some dumb bastard!

Ray, this dumb bastard finds all kind of soul in any well built, reliable and trusted hunting rifle no matter what the handle is built from

I lived in and hunted Alaska for 12 years .I started hunting with the regular rifle I had been hunting with a Ruger model 77 blued 338 win mag .It went through so much abuse my first Alaska hunt I bought a stainless 338 win mag mark II paddle stock.I don't know who.wrote that Ruger paddle stocks are the greatest stock.ever made but I hate them.If you have one use it as a porcupine club and its about as good on.as rifle as it is paddling a boat .You shoot one on a 338 win mag it's terrible .I.sold the paddle stock bad bought a laminated stock.My.rifle didn't shoot.good with that crappy paddle stock.and it hit your cheek shooting the 338 win mag like a boxer every time you shot it.I really liked the laminated stock that replaced it .My rifle shot five times better with the laminated stock than that chunky paddle stock.I shot.many groups under an inch at 100 yards and a bunch.under an inch at 200 yards with the laminated Boyes stock.Then I kept seeing game in the tundra too far for shots for my 338 win mag Ruger and I.needed a new long.range rifle !
Weatherby came out with the 338-378 weatherby accumarks at this time .I.bought one put.a 6.5x20 power Nikon on it and had the perfict tundra rifle for Alaska .It's held up to riding.four wheelers hundreds of miles.I now want a 30 inch barrel 338-378 weatherby accumark and try to.see if I.can shoot 300 grain bullets out of it.The tundra is a place where a 30 inch barrel is not much.of a problem.I bought three accumarks in338-378 weatherby so you know I.really like them !

My 338 boat paddle ruger would clover leaf five shots off the bench. Worked just fine out over 400 yards. Never tried to reach any farther. Figured i wasn’t hunting anymore past that.

quote:

.I don't know who.wrote that Ruger paddle stocks are the greatest stock

Don't know anybody said the greatest.

I believe the correct words are the toughest.