There is no doubt that you can carry large, heavy pistols, or rifles every day if you choose. It's sort of like a dog getting put on a leash. He doesn't mind because he is going out to do something fun.
But when you live and work in the wilderness everyday and also have to carry other items where any additional weight becomes burdensome.

quote:

There is no doubt that you can carry large, heavy pistols,

I do carry a handgun everyday even working around the farm doing chores cutting firewood ect ect.

About the only time do not carry is if I am planning flying commercial.

A lot of it is in what type a rig one uses the bigger the hand gun the better the rig one needs.

I generally carry something a lot lighter than my 7.5 inch red hawk.

When I do carry it is in a custom semi chest rig cross draw with a shoulder strap to help support the weight.

When carrying my 460 S@W BFR 10 inch it is in a chest rig with a shoulder strap but unless I was hunting with it I would not carry it day to day.

Good holsters and rigs help a lot but the bigger the pistol the bigger the pain it is to carry.

I hardly notice a full size 1911 or 4 inch 357 or a glock 22 or 23. My Ti. 41 is a joy at 27oz.

But due to back problems a set of suspenders is mandatory with any holster on my belt.

I carry the Ti. 41 in shoulder rig when back packing.

But a pistol a leatherman and maybe a extra mag or speed loader is nothing compared to a 13lb duty rig and all the stuff on it.

I don't think anybody here ever said you have to carry if you don't want to.

That's a personal choice that has to be made.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
You react in the OH CRAP moment the way you train.

It has been demonstrated many times over.

You think and train if this happens I am going to do this or that. You play the what if game what if this happens what am I going to do.

Then you practice and practice. You mount your rifle or draw you handgun over and over until it becomes 2nd nature,

You dry fire, you live fire you condition your mind to react, not stand there and say oh crap what am I going to do.

Best of all you develop a heighten sense of what is going on around you. Then hone your reactions to warning signs.

So you are reacting instead of just standing there wondering if it is really happening to me.

That is how you train and develop good solid defensive skills.

Then when the OH CRAP moment happens and you end up winning. And you are wondering afterwards most likely you well say that is how I trained.

It's a technique called "visualization". I did it throughout the day, every day, for my 25yrs in LE. It ultimately becomes subconscious habit and will serve you well in many aspects of your life!

But do you also carry a rifle, wear a jacket, raincoat and heavy backpack all day also ?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
But do you also carry a rifle, wear a jacket, raincoat and heavy backpack all day also ?

Only when I am hunting or back packing.

The jacket, rain, coat depending on the weather.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
But do you also carry a rifle, wear a jacket, raincoat and heavy backpack all day also ?

Do you carry all that?

Were you carrying all that gear when you shot that bear with your 9mm?

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
But do you also carry a rifle, wear a jacket, raincoat and heavy backpack all day also ?

Do you carry all that?

Were you carrying all that gear when you shot that bear with your 9mm?

I'll chime in just because I do have some experience and I do think at least in this case what I have to say is worth repeating.

For back ground, I live and work in bear country all day every day, year in and year out. I have brown bears around my house, around my work, on my streets and hillsides. River valleys too. Here in Unit 17 there are so many bears the Fish and Game allows us two (2) bear tags per year, over the counter, no fee and a very long season.

That all being true, uncomfortable bear encounters are very easy to avoid.

Using your brains, i.e., common sense or at least a little caution goes much further than a handgun or pepper spray. There are any number of easy to use practices that will nearly guarantee complete safety from bear attacks. Where you are at what particular time of day is much more important than what caliber or cartridge in bear defense. Wind at you face or at your back? Brush over your head or ankle deep? Just some simple consideration regarding who you might be sneaking up on and do you really want to surprise them.

In many of the cases of bear attacks, plain poor judgement was used. Tim Treadwell used poor judgement as did the McKinley Park photographer. There was a guy on Bird Creek I think it was that killed a purported maurading bear with his handi AK. likely he went looking for trouble with his AK and found it. There was a couple killed and eaten up in ANWR and I never did see how they used bad judgement, I sort of thought their jig was up, poor folks.

As usual here on AR, the tourists, the folks like the posters here with less experience than the residents that "live in such dangerous country" are the loudest proponents of being armed to the teeth. One nice fellow from Texas not to long ago compared our bears to man eating tigers. Another guy on AR from California somewhere mentioned that he sleeps with his handgun strapped to his side in bed! In the friggin' sleeping bag.

Good Lord.

DLP'ing a bear in AK is an unpleasant experience that any Outdoorsman, resident or not can and should easily avoid. Historically my hunting camp has killed more than three and as many as five good bull moose in a week of hunting. All during the fall season, all along salmon streams with salmon in the water and bears on the stream bank. In several cases not only have we had moose hanging in camp along the stream at night but we've left carcasses in the field quite aways from camp over night. Never once have we had to shoot a bear off.

Seriously now, having a handgun or not has nothing to do with my bear safety.

The odds are you well never have kill a bear in self defense.

When one considers the man hours spent in bear county across North America.

The number of mauling's and then the lessor number of deaths.

Saying that any one person at any one time getting mauled or killed by a bear or killing one in a DLP shooting is relatively slim.

A lot of people do most everything they can to avoid getting mauled and or killed.

Out of season bear killings are most of the time investigated, in the lower 48 any time a grizzly is killed it is thoroughly investigated.

If it was ever proven that any body purposely went looking for a bear with the intent of provoking a charge as an excuse to shoot it.

They would be charged under the proper statute.

The article first posted was not just written about Alaska but has bear attacks from all over.

They do not cover attacks just by the grizzly family of bears.

If I remember right two of the deaths last year were predatory black bear attacks.

The are great numbers of black bears in AK Canada and a lot of the lower 48 states.

My state is always near the top for the number of black bears harvested. I have bears on my property on a regular basis's. I had them in the yard on the deck.

I have had boars fighting over a sow with in a hundred yards of my house I killed a 500lb bear with in 150 yards of my house.

They are opening a grizzly season Wyoming this year, the number of grizzlies have greatly increased.

One does not have to live or be in Alaska to find oneself dealing with bears.

I have shot a bear the that the day before I shot it grabbed a young lady by the foot and tried to drag her of into the woods.

But her companions beat it off with canoe paddles and chased it away.

That was in northern MN. I personally talked to the young lady and saw the bite marks.

There is more the one save from bears in the lower 48.

Yes this was posted in the Alaska forum by an Alaskan it was first posted in the big game forum.

It is just not about bears in Alaska.

Most of these people did every thing right except for being around a bear that didn't know it was not suppose to attack a human.

I don't think anybody said anybody has to carry a firearm that's a personal choice.

I carry a handgun for many reasons every day the biggest is the threats hard core felons have made against me and my family.

I have shot a number of varmints that would have got away if I had not been carrying a sidearm.

I shot a number of big game animals with one when my rifle was not handy as it should have been.

There is are many reasons to carry a sidearm bears can be just one of them or part of it..

If I am ever the subject of a bear attack I well be glad to be properly armed.

So you carry a gun at home to among other reasons be prepared for a black bear attack in Wisconsin?

Wow........

Some people are very happy in living in a world where nothing bad ever happens.

33 years as a LEO tells me they are living in a fantasy world.

And critters never attack people.

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...f-chat/3641332/posts

Just an isolated incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...tle=Special%3ASearch

When one lives in the country and has domesticated animals around there is more to protect then oneself.

I am sure that all of the varmints that I have killed over the years would have been very happy had I not been carrying a sidearm.

According to some it seems it much better to spend ones time and money paying vet bills or ER bills, or buying new live stock, dogs ect.

Then it is to carry a handgun to protect themselves and their property.

But then the odds say it well never happen to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
So you carry a gun at home to among other reasons be prepared for a black bear attack in Wisconsin?

Wow........

33 years in law enforcement has led him to believe there are Boogie Men/ bears everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
So you carry a gun at home to among other reasons be prepared for a black bear attack in Wisconsin?

Wow........

33 years in law enforcement has led him to believe there are Boogie Men/ bears everywhere.

Or it has made him very aware that a threat of any kind can appear when you least expect it, and fortune ALWAYS favors the prepared!

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
So you carry a gun at home to among other reasons be prepared for a black bear attack in Wisconsin?

Wow........

33 years in law enforcement has led him to believe there are Boogie Men/ bears everywhere.

Or it has made him very aware that a threat of any kind can appear when you least expect it, and fortune ALWAYS favors the prepared!

Ahh, another law enforcement officer.

Scott we have had this discussion before.

You have your point of view I have mine.

Both built on our personal experience.

In the USA most people go through with out ever any thing bad happening to them.

I am glad you are one of them. Enjoy it has as long you live and hopefully you never have to experience any of the evil that is out there.

Stroll down the link and you well find the crime sats. for your slice of heaven.

I found it an interesting read.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Dillingham-Alaska.html

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Scott we have had this discussion before.

You have your point of view I have mine.

Both built on our personal experience.

In the USA most people go through with out ever any thing bad happening to them.

I am glad you are one of them. Enjoy it has as long you live and hopefully you never have to experience any of the evil that is out there.

Stroll down the link and you well find the crime sats. for your slice of heaven.

I found it an interesting read.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Dillingham-Alaska.html

Don't need to read it, I live here! I know the folks by either face or first name that make up your stats.

How this applies to Pistols and Lions & Tigers & Bears oh my! I dunno.

Oh wait your angry.

The fact is the keys are in my pickup as we speak, the kids are playing outside in the yard and I slept all night last night with the door unlocked.

Like you said, Slice of Heaven.

Crime stats for Dillingham aside, you continue to promote a mindset that Alaskans like myself and others here don't share or agree with. No, I don't care that you really are that afraid, but I find it wrong to pass around bad advise as it applies to where I live and I feel compelled to call you on it. In Wisconsin you may be quite the authority, in AK, you ain't. No your friend that compared bears to man eating tigers ain't right, neither is you friend that sleeps with his pistol duct taped to his belly button.

So, maybe not the next time you post one of your, "Big scary monster bears!" post I won't bother, but rest assured I eventually will.

So Scott what does anything you said have to do whether handguns are good for bear protection or not

You make it very clear you don't think people to should carry handguns for bear protection.

I have always stated it is a personnel choice,

I have shown documented cases where handguns have been used successfully.



I have not found any of the people who saved themselves say wow I sure wish I would not have had one with me.

But I have talked to bear attack survivors where spray has failed and now they carry a handgun.


Again I could careless if you or anybody else carries one. It is a personnel choice.

You keep saying one does not need one.

If you know of bear attack survivors that have that opinion feel free to document it and post their stories.

You can keep up with the personal attacks.

Or you could provide data the proves that handguns are not needed and do not work well for personal defense.

Well all I know is statistically I'm far more likely to be struck by lightning.

Now where's that roll of tinfoil to line my hat.......?

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Well all I know is statistically I'm far more likely to be struck by lightning.

Now where's that roll of tinfoil to line my hat.......?

Very true with most things most drivers well never need their seat belts, most boaters their PFDs, most home owners well never need their fire extinguisher. For most people it would be cheaper to be self insured.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
So Scott what does anything you said have to do whether handguns are good for bear protection or not

You make it very clear you don't think people to should carry handguns for bear protection.

I have always stated it is a personnel choice,

I have shown documented cases where handguns have been used successfully.



I have not found any of the people who saved themselves say wow I sure wish I would not have had one with me.

But I have talked to bear attack survivors where spray has failed and now they carry a handgun.


Again I could careless if you or anybody else carries one. It is a personnel choice.

You keep saying one does not need one.

If you know of bear attack survivors that have that opinion feel free to document it and post their stories.

You can keep up with the personal attacks.

Or you could provide data the proves that handguns are not needed and do not work well for personal defense.

If you think its a personal choice why do you push this same flawed line of thinking on everyone here over and over and over and over and over?

We get it, the Wisconsinites like walking around with their pistols everywhere. Now that we get it will you stop? If you will I will!

I knew when I posted this study, that there would be a lot of interest based on the other topic about "Back Up revolvers" also received many views and comments.

Can we try to get back on topic and keep the discussion on the study and sidearms and not the back and forth personal stuff please. If need be take those comments to private message or better yet, let it go. We do not always agree, which is fine, but lets not derail an intersting discussion please.

Firearms are useful for protecting oneself against a bear attack.

This research shows 97% success rate when used.

It doesn't say if one should or should not carry.

One can draw their own conclusions if or if not one wants to carry a firearm for self-defense.

If you don't agree with it please post the documented cases where they have failed and they well be added to the data base.

If ones argument is just you don't have to carry because it is not going happen to you.

That neither proves or disproves how effective handguns are for bear defense.

That argument only proves that that you are against the carrying of a fire arm for self- defense not if they work or not.

Carry a firearm for self defense is a personnel choice. To be made by the person who carries.

Feel free to post data that changes the numbers.

Look, no one says you have to carry any handgun.

But if you choose to do so, don't carry something light-n-fluffy, nor a boat-anchor heavy Mega-Magnum you've only fired once or twice.

I'd recommend a 10mm G20 loaded hot, but whatever you choose, you absolutely need to practice, practice, practice - specifically doing move-n-shoot drills.

Remember, the big bruins savor tasty Tyro meat, especially panicky, unprepared Tyros.

So don't be a Tyro. Get it figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
I haven’t found a good way to train for 400-1500lbs of gonna tear you apart coming at me. I can practice shooting. But I haven’t found a way to train for that oh crap moment. Having been in that oh crap moment and know what actually happens, I don’t think there is a safe way to recreate that moment.

Thank You !!
What did we do before computers were available.
Other than the USFS annual qualifications for personell doing stand exam, sale administration, contract inspections ect. I never knew of any training or qualifications . WHERE THERE IS ACTUALLY DENSE BEAR POPULATIONS.
Nowadays they probably have tons of alphabet agencies urinating away tax dollars on all kind of training to justify their ever expanding budgets.

Best training in the world is to Actually go kill a bunch of bears.
I have yet to experience being to slow whipping out my pistol to defend myself against a bear. And for years I wore various large caliber revolvers. Including 7 1/2" Super Redhawks. I know a guy that used his 500 Smith 4" . 400 gr bullet , 40 gr H110. To kill a big bear at close range as it charged him and his toddler son. I don't think he's ever seen a shot timer. Most of his practice was shooting paper plates stuck in the sliver pulls of old growth stumps.
Its more important to keep your head and not do foolishness like throw a useful rifle on the ground in favor of something silly like bear spray.
The whole surprise attack thing is so rare, its not something to be worried about.
Unprovoked attacks are not uncommon but that's a different thing all together. And something that can be delt with if someone did not stupidly bury their gun in a pack or some other brainless thing. Generally the best practice is to shoot the largest caliber , bullet and velocity the person can shoot well enough to stay safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Oh it matters! I ain’t gonna waste a bear just cause it’s running my way.

This is my huge rub with the commercial services board.

A bear runs at me, I'm gonna kill it.
Since most of the time a bear doesn't even know what it going to do before they actually do it. I'm not waiting for it to decide , yup I really do want to try to make this guy bleed. At about 30 feet away the gunfire starts . Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

I used to carry a S&W 626 in .44 mag when in bear country, but it is a pain.

I now have a Taurus 44 Tracker. It is light and easy to carry, but a pain to shoot.

When adrenaline kicks in I doubt I would even notice the recoil.

Having been charged by both a cape buff and an elephant gives me the confidence to know my shooting will be true.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Oh it matters! I ain’t gonna waste a bear just cause it’s running my way.

This is my huge rub with the commercial services board.

.....Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

Not sure what this has to do with commercial services board.
And killing stuff cause it don’t make you money is horrible. Bears are an amazing part of what makes alaska Alaska. If you don’t like them, maybe best to live where they aren’t.

Nope I just love killin bears. But only the ones that are bothering me. Getting into my stuff . Beins I've been in Alaska since 78. I guess I'll stick around.
Fewer bears means more moose , bou and deer. That's a good thing.
Kids can go deer hunting without their parents being worried about them bumping into a problem bear. I know lots of guys that shot every bear they could get close to just for that reason. Ain't no shortage of bears in Alaska.

There would be if many folks held with your opinion.
I live in one of, of not the, densists population of bears in the world and have had to shoot only one unwounded bear in 40 years !

I don't like killing bears !

But I do love hunting them .

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
There would be if many folks held with your opinion.
I live in one of, of not the, densists population of bears in the world and have had to shoot only one unwounded bear in 40 years !

I don't like killing bears !

But I do love hunting them .

I love hunting bears also.

I like eating a good black bear never ate any grizzly.

Most bears are not a problem, until you run into one that is.

In 50 plus years of living hunting, camping back packing and other activities in bear country.

I never had to kill one in an DLP shooting came close a couple of times.

Sights on target finger on the trigger but the bear decided not to take that extra step.

The fact that most people never encounter a bear that is intent on doing them harm.

They some times get a warped sense that it can never or well never happen.

From the earliest history of man human's have recognized that bears can be dangerous.

A lot of modern humans raised on Disney have a warped idea of bears and other animals.

Like any large animal one is around one needs to have a healthy respect of them.

Does that mean your afraid of them no.

But a little fear goes a long ways to keeping you safe.

Just as I wouldn't walk behind a horse with out letting them know I was there or not being extra careful around a bull or stud.

I try not to get careless around bears because any one of them can hurt you or kill you.

Familiarity some times breed contempt then all of sudden that nice horse, bull, sow, boar, bear or other animal you never had a problem with.

Decides for a reason only known to them decides they don't like you that day.

If you paying attention you noticed the change and get out of harms way.

Or there is no warning, your distracted and the cute fuzzy critter is trying to kill you.


What you do or can do about it depends on the circumstances.

I prefer being prepared.

Killing bears to make the woods “safe” for kids to deer hunt?!
Sounds like the folks by anchorage after that boy was killed by that black bear. Remove the bear. It’s the bears fault for being in nature before we got there.

If you step into the woods in Alaska you need to know what your stepping into. I’d rather teach my kids how to be safe in the woods than try to change the woods to be safe for my kids. Cause no where
Out there is gonna change for them.

quote:

It’s the bears fault for being in nature before we got there.

Humans and bears have been interacting for ever.

Depends on ones thinking I would bet if one is older then 25 there is hardly a bear around that been there before them.

Being older then 60 I know there is no bear alive that has been around longer then I have.

Modern living for a huge majority has insulated most people from nature.

One has to be very careful not to fall into the anti's trap of animals are more important then people.

My family has live on the same ground for over a hundred years so am I and intruder or is a bear born just a few years ago an intruder into my space.

I like having bears around for many reasons I don't believe in the unreasonable killing of them.

But I well not put up with one causing problems or endangering me or mine.

I like your last two paragraphs.

quote:

A bear runs at me, I'm gonna kill it.
Since most of the time a bear doesn't even know what it going to do before they actually do it. I'm not waiting for it to decide , yup I really do want to try to make this guy bleed. At about 30 feet away the gunfire starts . Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

I agree ...

Stop all this politically-correct, animal-rights horse sheit.

Just shoot the frickin' bear.

Then skin the hide, just like in that awesome flic, Revenant.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

A bear runs at me, I'm gonna kill it.
Since most of the time a bear doesn't even know what it going to do before they actually do it. I'm not waiting for it to decide , yup I really do want to try to make this guy bleed. At about 30 feet away the gunfire starts . Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

I agree ...

Stop all this politically-correct, animal-rights horse sheit.

Just shoot the frickin' bear.

Then skin the hide, just like in that awesome flic, Revenant.

Snarky post aside, You live in Texas, do you shoot feral hogs. If so why?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

A bear runs at me, I'm gonna kill it.
Since most of the time a bear doesn't even know what it going to do before they actually do it. I'm not waiting for it to decide , yup I really do want to try to make this guy bleed. At about 30 feet away the gunfire starts . Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

I agree ...

Stop all this politically-correct, animal-rights horse sheit.

Just shoot the frickin' bear.

Then skin the hide, just like in that awesome flic, Revenant.

Snarky post aside, You live in Texas, do you shoot feral hogs. If so why?

Of course. Why not? ... They're hogs.

Focus, dude. This bear-killin' sheit ain't rocket science.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

A bear runs at me, I'm gonna kill it.
Since most of the time a bear doesn't even know what it going to do before they actually do it. I'm not waiting for it to decide , yup I really do want to try to make this guy bleed. At about 30 feet away the gunfire starts . Bears don't make me a penny so the more of them that people kill the happier I am.
I used to fool around waiting to see if they were bluffing or not. Now , I beller at em, if they don't run for their life , I kill them right then and there.

I agree ...

Stop all this politically-correct, animal-rights horse sheit.

Just shoot the frickin' bear.

Then skin the hide, just like in that awesome flic, Revenant.

Snarky post aside, You live in Texas, do you shoot feral hogs. If so why?

Of course. Why not? ... They're hogs.

Focus, dude. This bear-killin' sheit ain't rocket science.

Thank you for pointing out the folly of my responding at all.

Out........

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
There would be if many folks held with your opinion.
I live in one of, of not the, densists population of bears in the world and have had to shoot only one unwounded bear in 40 years !

I don't like killing bears !

But I do love hunting them .

I doubt it has a denser brown bear population than the N.E.Chichagof Is. Controlled Use Area.
Spend a bunch of time out in the brush there and you will have ample reason to have to shoot bears to keep from getting bloody. Southeast brown bear don't seem to be as domesticated as bears out west.
I've had to kill very very few of the hundreds of brown bear I've been up close to over a span of 3 decades.

Some people have a bear magnet in them some don't .I have one of those
Magnets in me no fun .I had more surprised bears than anything.The worse place
WAS at the dump .You never knew if the bears were coming or going.We would go to
Just watch the out there at dark .They were so quite you never heard them in the grass.
I told my old gf not to go over some cross ties one evening and she got stuck .I had to get out
Of the truck and we just saw four grizzlies .We had no gun and the bears were still coming in .
My old gf was in charge of the city and the dump at the time .She came up for this idea for a new fence
For the dump .They spent $25,000 on this fence we had to inspect it .The bears took about 30 minutes to tear through the fence .We has many surprised bears pop up around the truck .I told here
No more trips to the dump unless we had protection .The bears had torn.the doors off a bunch of
People's cars and destroyed their cars in the process .
Valdez was the other problem bear area where you can't hunt them there .We had a bunch.of
Them jump in the back of the truck to get into closed coolers .
I always camped on the pensula sea otter camp ground to stay away from.the bears down there .
A friend always camped at the glacier camp ground and always had bear troubles.In alaska just because
Your in town don't think there are not any bears .Alaska has them any where you go just about even around
Anchorage alot of people have been.attacked around it .It's that 3percent when you want the biggest gun you can handle .I.practiced with my 454 Rugers alot didn't just carry them !