HUNTERS: David Morris, David Shashy, Robert McCarter, Darren Kolbe

OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT: Royal Mountain Adventures/Global Hunting Resources

HUNT DATES/LOCATION: Oct. 24 - Nov. 1, 2009 in eastern Colorado

SPECIES HUNTED: Whitetail Deer


Just thought I would share with you guys some of our recent success from eastern Colorado, and show alot of you that are not aware, the quality of whitetails that the plains of Colorado can produce. I spent 10 days in eastern Colorado guiding my clients on whitetail deer hunts outfitted by my former guide, and now outfitter, Sean Sander of Royal Mountain Adventures. Although I am no longer the outfitter on these hunts, not since I sold the company in 2006. I still spend a great deal of time as a guide, and exclusively book ALL the hunts for Royal Mountain Adventures. Over the years, the farm and ranch country of Colorado's high plains has gained a reputation as a wonderful place for big muleys, and it is. But what most people still don't realize is just how good the whitetails are out there too!!

Eastern Colorado consists of 99% private property. Virtually everything east of I-25 to the Kansas border, and south from N.M., all the way north to the Wyoming border, is private. Yes, there are a few exceptions but very few. The terrain is mainly ranch & farm country, either landowners are farmers, cattle ranchers, or in some cases both. The whitetails of Colorado are a much different animal than in most other places, living a very nomadic life, much like a mule deer. Rarely do they prescribe to traditional patterns or movements. In fact, the only predictable habit of a plains whitetail is, they are sure to be unpredictable. Although the whitetails are originally in eastern Colorado because of the several major river drainages, mainly the Arkansas and the Platte. They have spread throughout the farm & ranch country, and it's extremely rare that I actually kill one in a creek bottom. Rough pasture is the favorite hide-out of the Colorado whitetail, and hunting these open country giants is a whole lotta fun! Not often do you get the chance to spot whitetails, often from 1-2 miles away and then plan a stock. It's a totally different style of whitetail hunting, but it sure is fun!!!!

Pictured below are the 4 whitetail bucks I guided from Oct. 24 - Nov. 1, 2009. David Shashy - 168", Darren Kolbe - 170", David Morris - 172", Robert McCarter - 179"

Hope you enjoy!

Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources

The sad part is, that up to about 7 years ago, you could knock on doors and hunt just about anywhere you wanted in eastern Colorado. Then, the outfitters get involved and nobody can get on the ranches and farms any more. Everything is leased up.

Too bad that what used to be available to just about everyone has now become a rich man's game.

MAC - That's funny, I still get permission when I knock on doors from time to time! Maybe you're doing it wrong????

Great deer.

All hunting is a rich man's game when you figure all of the costs. No matter, we still go and have fun.

Aaron - that is a pile of big deer - CONGRATS to all!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
MAC - That's funny, I still get permission when I knock on doors from time to time! Maybe you're doing it wrong????

I'll admit that casting the entire state into a general statement like that was probably a poor choice of words.

How about this:

It has become increasingly difficult for the average person to get access to what used to be wide open lands. The cash the outfitters continue to pour into the equation have caused a disproportionate amount of land to be leased and placed off limits to the average hunter.

I believe the blatant commercialization of wildife will be one of the things that will eventually cuase the death of hunting as we know it.

Isn't that guy in three of the pica
s from Tecomate Ranch in TX? If so, what is his association here?

MAC,
I can appreciate the dilema. However, wildlife must pay its way on this earth. Without sport hunting, that includes paying for the animal, the owner of the land along with the various state agencies, have nothing to show for the effort required to "grow" wildlife.

In Africa and other places, if the animal "pays", it stays. If not, it will be eliminated. I think the evidence in the US over the past hundred or so years confirms this. In my state, deer hunting was non-existant from the 1900's to the 1970's due to lack of incentive to allow the deer to live on the land. Management of the resource (land, deer, people involved) made the deer more valuable alive than somewhere else.

At the end of it, land carries animals, people and crops. Wildlife must pay its way. Leasing and access in the Western US are one way this happens. Without leases, you have no appreciable deer herds because there is no value in creating habitat for them when other crops (cattle, corn, whatever) are available.

quote:

Originally posted by Vinny:
MAC,
I can appreciate the dilema. However, wildlife must pay its way on this earth. Without sport hunting, that includes paying for the animal, the owner of the land along with the various state agencies, have nothing to show for the effort required to "grow" wildlife.

In Africa and other places, if the animal "pays", it stays. If not, it will be eliminated. I think the evidence in the US over the past hundred or so years confirms this. In my state, deer hunting was non-existant from the 1900's to the 1970's due to lack of incentive to allow the deer to live on the land. Management of the resource (land, deer, people involved) made the deer more valuable alive than somewhere else.

At the end of it, land carries animals, people and crops. Wildlife must pay its way. Leasing and access in the Western US are one way this happens. Without leases, you have no appreciable deer herds because there is no value in creating habitat for them when other crops (cattle, corn, whatever) are available.

While I agre with some of this, this part is utter bullshit: Without leases, you have no appreciable deer herds because there is no value in creating habitat for them when other crops (cattle, corn, whatever) are available

Colorado has always had really good herds of deer. Where most of the deer exist out on the plains is in the undeveloped land, not in the farm fields. They don't "create" habitat for the deer in Colorado like they do elsewhere, the deer have alway been there. Without the leases, there would still be just as many deer. It would just be easier for the average man to get a chance to hunt them.

I grew up in Colorado and have seen lots of land end up being off limits to the average guy. This leads to a reduction in the number of hunters because they can't find a place to hunt. Every survey that has been done to question why people are ceasing to hunt has pointed to the lack of available land as one of the prime reasons hunters are leaving the fields.

It's the average blue collar guy that buys the majority of the tags that bankroll the Division of Wildlife. It isn't the few rich paying clients that pay the bills. The state makes the same amount for the tag sold to the millionaire as they do the tag sold to the plumber. There are a hell of a lot more plumbers buying tags than there are millionaires. The millionaire will always hunt if he/she wants. What does the state do it the plumbers, truck drivers, construction workers, factory workers, etc... stop buying tags? As hunters decrease in numbers, the funds dry up.


And the commercialization of wildlife is one of the reasons tags are decreasing. People simply don't have access to lands like they used to.

MAC - Facts are, deer in eastern Colorado thrive because of the habitat, period! More so, the deer thrive because of the farming, or farm fields as you put it, that are there and growing as farmers expand! The deer numbers have grown in leaps and bounds because of the additional farming/food supply available, not because of undeveloped land, period! Plus, the regulation of tag numbers. Secondly, the quality of the deer in places such as those we lease & hunt has also greatly improved, and not just in the quality of the bucks, but the overall herd and genetics in the area. Before we came along, as is standard practice with most locals, and trust me, I have seen it out there more than anyone. Usually there motive is total dis-regard for game & fish laws, as shooting from the road, trespassing, etc, etc, is the norm. Again, I speak from experience as I spent the past 2 weeks, and the past 15 years, dealing with these clowns. Secondly, they generally have no concern for what they are shooting as long as they GET ONE!!! Fork horns, little 3 pts, and 160" 4x4's that promise to be something are shot at the first chance they get. The Colorado Div. of Wildlife has done a good job in regulating the number of available tags over the past 20 years, making it virtually impossible to OVER-SHOOT the deer in eastern Colorado. But trust me, if left up to most of the "average" guys as you put it, quality and quantity of deer in eastern Colorado would be almost non-existent! We shoot this quality of deer because of concerted efforts to manage the deer we have, sometimes at a cost to the bottom line.

Now, the biggest reason the land is leased by one outfitter or another is simple, the LANDOWNER wants to! I cannot tell you how many landowners in the past 15 years have told me the same story over & over. They grew tired of guys wanting to hunt for free, bring more hunters than they said they were going to, leaving gates open, shooting immature bucks, or just generally taking advantage of it in one way or another, and the list goes on. I would say in 90% of the cases in which we lease ground, the money has been the 2nd or 3rd consideration, rarely the first. Trust me on this, deer do not stay FOREVER out in the rough pastures or CRP, when crops are available almost everywhere. Deer are no different than any other animal, they eat what tastes best, and in eastern Colorado that's Corn, wheat and milo, sometimes alfalfa if its available. If you have a concentration of deer, they are there because of the FOOD! Food in the form of some farmer's crop, that he is not being compensated for by the guy wanting free hunting access just because its the right thing to do.

Man I have heard this complaining for years, quite frankly its pathetic. Someone else has chosen a different route to prosperity, so instead of commending them for it, you choose to criticize. Fact is, get a few of your buddies, get off your duff and go find a place to lease yourself. The old saying holds true in hunting, just as it does in life, "Nothing is Free", including good hunting spots! Besides, Colorado is FULL of public land with fabulous hunting. Me and my 3 buddies do most of our personal elk & deer hunting on public land here close to home. In the past 4-5 years we have killed 5-6 muleys from low 180's to as high as 218", with 3 of them over 200". We have also killed numerous bulls over 350", I shot a 384" in 2008, and Sean killed a 341" 5x5 about 2 weeks ago. You have to spend time looking in the field, rather than complaining on the internet to be successful.

Bluefin - Sorry man, I forgot to answer your question. Yes, David Morris is pictured in 2 of the photos, the last photo is Mr. Robert McCarter. Mr. Morris is a client, he and his friend David Shashy hunted with me the 1st week of the season, shooting two bucks scoring 168" & 172".

Very nice Bucks!!!

Matt, thanks man!!

Tim - When you comin????

We need to try to plan it for next year...e-mail me some details, I'll get it worked out, and we'll catch up in person at SHOT/SCI...I love the thoughts of spot and stalk whitetails...

Very nice deer Aaron!!!! Congrats to all involved.

I received permission to hunt a 40K acre ranch in eastern CO for prairie dogs early last summer. I had three friends coming in from Georgia to hunt p-dogs, which we killed about 600-800 in two days, which were relatively relaxed only shooting 4-5 hours per day. After everything was said and done, I also got permission for antelope, which I did not hunt this fall. Guess it pays to start small and work your way up, because I was perfectly happy with shooting prairie dogs.

Graybird - Just got back, been guiding a couple bowhunters for 6-7 days. Yep, starting small is sometimes how it works!!!

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:
The sad part is, that up to about 7 years ago, you could knock on doors and hunt just about anywhere you wanted in eastern Colorado. Then, the outfitters get involved and nobody can get on the ranches and farms any more. Everything is leased up.

Too bad that what used to be available to just about everyone has now become a rich man's game.

I've spent quite a bit of time this year looking at deer on the plains and in the mtns and the very best mule deer I've found was in a unit that can be drawn as a second choice by anybody that applies. It's a giant buck, over 200" typical. I'll post a pic or day.

I get so sick and tired of hearing people bitch and moan about not having a chance to hunt good country and that the rich man has kept then, the "average Joe", from having the same opportunity at quality deer. Would I like to hunt the ground I've guided on in th past? You betcha!! I can't afford it so I don't do it. Am I king to get pissed and create excuses as to why I can't find a big deer? Hell no! There are big deer in every unit in Colorado, some have more deer than others but the opportunity is there.

IMO, the majority of the people that make this arguement are just too lazy to put in the effort, not experienced enough to find big deer or just wanting to complain to hear themselves complain. I'm not implying that Mac is any of the above but he may be all of the above, who knows, I've never met him. It's frustrating because I have friends that hunt public ground every year, ground that is available to anybody that applies and they consistantly kill mature animals. What it boils down to is effort, if u put in the effort then you have a tremendous opportunity here in Colorado, if you can't get it done then you can either learn from your experience and apply what you've learned to future hunts or you can make excuses.

As a side note, the deer I found here in CO this year lived in an area that is heavily hunted! Found the deer before labor day and this area had a ton of bowhunters in there and 5 days into the muzzleloader season I was back in there and counted 10 blaze orange vests in the area. I glassed for 5 minutes and found the big deer bedded out in the wide open with another deer that was 30" wide. Yep, the rich man is keeping us down damnit! There's just no opportunity in CO for the "average Joe".

Drummond - I know the exact location you are referring to, and the deer! How come you gotta tell everyone about these public land giants, that lay in the open in an area that the every "average Joe" can draw 2nd choice?? Oh sorry, guess that was your point!!!!! Fact is, your assessment is dead on.

Aaron

Mac might be too busy serving our country to knock on doors, assuming he is still on active duty.

AnotherAZWriter - You may be right!

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Mac might be too busy serving our country to knock on doors, assuming he is still on active duty.

I was not trying to rail on him as a person, just the arguement that hunting is just a rich mans sport.

It simply doesn't hold water IMO. Some of the very best hunts in the country are on public ground, it just takes time to draw a tag.

If you look at the top 20% of trophy animals killed in the west every year I bet most people would be shocked to see what the percentage of public ground those animals came off of.

If Mac is active duty and is serving our country then he is one of the brave Americans that put their lives on the line to protect our constitutional right to bear arms. This goes hand in hand with the sport we all share a passion for. There are millions upon millions of acres of public land to hunt. I just don't buy that "average Joes" don't have an opportunity to hunt trophy animals. I am an "average Joe" and simply can't rationalize that arguement. Some of my buddies don't have a pot to piss in or a window to toss it out of and they smack some giant animals annually

Drummond - Defending your statement isn't necessary, you couldn't be more right!!

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
If you look at the top 20% of trophy animals killed in the west every year I bet most people would be shocked to see what the percentage of public ground those animals came off of.

The above is why I put in for tags in NM, UT, and CO . . . in these states with tons of public land, the above is most certainly true!

Now in TX . . . without access to the data, I don't think it would be going too far out on a limb to state that perhaps no more than 1% of the top heads killed come off of public land . . . of course, we're a private lands state (= different kettle of fish).

However, I am somewhat familiar with some survey data in Texas . . . one of the commonly voiced concerns registered on TPWD surveys in years past has had to do with the increase in "trophy hunting" resulting in increases in lease fees. In fact, I was on a lease a few years back that had as a lease rule NOT to publicize ANY trophies taken off the lease. This was not a LANDOWNER policy, but a policy of the primary lease organizers. Why did they have this rule? They were afraid that if someone else found out that there were 140 class deer being killed on the lease property that that "someone else" would find the landowner and "outbid" the lease organizers. This sort of issue is a real and legitimate concern.

In Texas (particularly East Texas) there is a lot of animosity towards the new "thirteen inch" rule (QDM measure aimed at improving the deer herd's age structure). Now don't get me wrong, I'm personally in FAVOR of it, and I hunt that way except my personal rule is "4 1/2 years or better". However, for a lot of folks, the 13" rule is a hindrance to them getting their deer (and deer are a public resource, we don't live in Africa). A lot of these folks simply don't care about antler size, but rather getting tasty venison, and could care less about QDM . . . should their concerns NOT be taken into consideration because YOU are a QDM adherent? I'm not offering a right or wrong answer here . . . just food for thought.

Finally, I think that there is a fine line that we as hunters and game managers (along with the agencies) will have to negotiate. We still need to increase hunting opportunities both for "joe the plumber" and his children while at the same time improving the health of the wildlife populations. WE NEED more hunters (= more voters) and we can't afford to let potential hunters in this VOTING democracy become disenfrancised and disillusioned with hunting.

Troy Hibbitts

I am an average hunter who has to save carefully to hunt out of my home area. I've hunted in BC Canada for 6 days only because I was in Chicago on business & the extra cost of hunting was justified as I had to find something to keep myself busy for those 6 days between Trade Exhibitions. I have hunted with guides in NZ as well.

I do not understand how outfitters and guides make a living, let alone save for retirement. I paid US$3000 for the 6 days hunt for Black bear & mule deer on public land in 2007 (no trophy fees). The guide got paid $150 a day by the outfitter. The food was great. The set-up at camp was a basic wilderness camp - an old abandoned ranch house that had been repaired & insulated. The overhead cost of operating there with a cook would have cost at least $1000 a week. Add to that the cost of license, hunting lease, trucks, fuel, guns, ammo, warm clothing, boots etc. and I cannot imagine how much money they have leftover for the rest of the year!!

Guiding in Alaska - I cannot even start to imagine how those guys can afford to operate such camps with planes & boats....!

Here in NZ the guides cost anything from US$200 to $750 a day depending on what you hunt. We also have to pay trophy fees.

Africa is very different - the US$ to local currency exchange rate is so huge that overseas hunters actually support whole communities of thousands of people. The average villager probably lives on US$500 a year or less! The camp staff are very wealthy by their local standards as they get tips of $100 or more from each hunter! An African PG hunt is more affordable than a Elk hunt for a 300+ bull!!

The most affordable hunting is to do the research and organise your own hunting group and go hunting. Make new friends on the internet & exchange hunts with them. I made friends with guys through another forum (they post here as well) & I ended up shooting double rifles with them in NC and hunting deer. I made similar friends in the South Island and he took me hunting for Himalayan Tahr last November. I then took him Sika deer hunting in December & he was thrilled to get his first sika deer after a challenging 4 day hunt.

Yes..hunting opportunities are not easy as they were 30 years ago. We just have to create them by working at it.