I just returned a couple of days ago from a hunt with Steve Lefforge of Sky Mountian Outfitters in Wyoming. The hunt was booked from 10-15/19-2011. I had a total of five hunters including my wife, and three good friends. There were also two other hunters in camp. I wish I could report a good and happy hunt but cannot. The first four days were good and fun until the morning of the last day. Two of my friends were tagged out on the third day with two very good mulies. On the morning of the last day we went to where those bucks were killed. My wife and I and the two who scored on the third day were glassing a river bottom with a bunch of deer bucks!!! The only bucks my wife and I had seen on the trip. We were going to try and pull of shooting two bucks @ the same time. Our outfitter and guide took the client who had two more days left out into the meadow which spooked a couple of deer and the two bucks we were trying to line up on. The client took a small buck and scared off even more bucks that were working their way into our direction. All four of us could not beleive we were seeing this with our own eyes. I could not shoot one of the bucks in the meadow because the outfitter and client were behind the deer!!! After he packed out the deer all of us left the area and went to where the trucks were parked. We had some ugly words and Steve the outfitter said he did not see us on the ridge.
How he did not see four orange hats on a rock 30ft of the ground I will never know. I asked him why he went there and he said he did not know where we were. " Your'e just mad you didn't get a deer" Bad on your part!!! You as an outfitter are the boss and leader of your clients. Brian and Kevin had too make arrangments to transport their deer from the cooler back to Riverton. Steve Lefforge said he had a back up plan but it was never disscused.
He has offered me a hunt for next year @ a discount but we are not going to take it. I asked for a refund of $3000.00 dollars for the three of us(a thousand a person). Kell who did not even get to see a buck was also very disapointed. Out of seven hunters six were unhappy, even the two hunters who took good bucks could not beleive what they had seen. In the future lessons learned
1.Use a booking agent.

2. When an outfitter tells you he has not done any scouting because he did want the locals to know his honey holes, beware.

3.When the outfitter tells you he told a couple not to come because he has not seen any deer look out.( It was to late it was the afternoon of the first day)
I asked him over the phone on 10/23/11 for a refund of the thousand a piece. He said no you had a full five days, you ate, and had a place to stay. He said get a laywer. It is not about the money. I had a chance to take a good mulie and so did my wife but it was screwed up by the outfitter and guide.


Here is a copy of an email that was sent.
From: Steve & Carrie Lefforge [mailto:slefforge@wyoming.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:29 PM
To: kdavis@phmga.com
Subject: Re: Hunting Trip - October



Kevin,



I hope that everyone made it home safe from Wyoming. The reason that I'm contacting you is you're the only one with I have a email address. I was hoping that you can forward me John and Ruby's email address as well as Kell's.

After you left on the plane I had a long talk with Byron about this weeks deer hunt and some of the problems that he could see with the way things were done and I need to make them right with everyone, starting with the Cannon's and Kell.



I feel that there were mistakes made by both party's however, since I'm the Outfitter and I'm providing a service that it's my responsibility to the clients to go home happy whether they killed a deer or not and that didn't happen.



I would call John however, I don't think he would listen at this time, so if I can send him a email and get things straighten out to where everyone is happy.



I'm happy for you and Brian to have killed two nice deer ,and I also want to apologize on my part for the blow up yesterday. First off, I should have never let John, Ruby and myself hunt that area when Kell and Byron where there first. My mistake and I'll make it right.



Thank You



Steve

I was one of the other hunters in camp, and was actually the hunter that took the "small buck" and "spooked" the deer away from John with Steve. To start off that morning, Steve, John, Ruby and I rode the in the same truck, while their friends, whom Steve did tell John and Ruby that they shouldn't be going, which I heard with my own ears, followed in another truck. Once we got to the hunting area, John and Ruby got out, went to the other truck, grabbed the 2 other hunters and walked right past Steve and I, went through the gate, and left the outfitter standing there, with me. I thought it was rude to walk right past the outfitter, and not wait to hear what he had to say or to see what he wanted all the hunters to do that morning, I know impalaslayer's buddies had been in the area before, but that still doesn't mean they are calling the shots.

Second of all, Steve and I did not see them in the rocks, nor did we see any other deer in the meadow (other than the group that had the deer I took). I find it hard to believe that 40 deer were in the meadow that Steve and I both did not see. Another thing, when John told the story originally, there was one 30" mule deer buck walking into them, not 2 bucks walking in so John and Ruby could shoot them both at the same time. In other words, he's lying, and I don't believe they saw any other deer in that meadow. I could be wrong, but the story definitely changed, and we all know what that usually means. As to not seeing the hunters sitting in the rocks, I couldn't figure out how not only did Steve and I not see them when we walked in, but also when Steve walked out to get his pack frame, came back with the frame, and then when we both walked out with the deer. Steve went and sat in those rocks with John and Ruby that night, and I asked him how we could've missed them, he said there were boot tracks going further down the meadow where they were out of sight, but they were certainly not where they said they were when John and Steve had their blowup. In any case, we did not see them in the rocks when we were going after my deer, or recovering it. and if we did, we would have not gone after the deer that we did, because I would not have done that.

Next, when impalaslayer came out when Steve and I were sitting by the truck with my deer, he verbally attacked Steve for all the things he mentioned on here, yelling, cursing, and what he was saying did not jive me with me, and I was there to see the whole thing. Steve defended himself, but only defended himself, John started that blowout, he should have handled it much better. Not only did he act like a jerk, he came back to the truck right after I had killed my first mule deer (on my first Western hunt), yelling, screaming that John and I shot a deer from in front of them. As to the comment John made about Steve taking the hunter with 2 more days into the meadow, what was he supposed to tell me? That I couldn't go after a buck because you guys were on the last day of your hunt? If we were hunting together, I would have gladly let either John or Ruby shoot. The night before I snuck up on a big forkhorn, saw that I didn't want to take it, and ran back to the truck to see if John's wife wanted to take it (John was glassing somewhere else), she said that she didn't, but I didn't go to shoot a deer from out in front of someone (sound familiar John???).

In any case, I did have a great hunt with Steve, and I would not only hunt with him again, but I would reccomend him to my family and friends. I would not like to hunt with impalaslayer again, and not to get into personal attacks, but he told some boldface lies in his original post, and I think they are despicable. How about posting your real name, too, impalaslayer?

-Justin Lancaster

PS-
I was at my girlfriend's house when you called me earlier, John, if you want to talk to me about anything I said, you are more than welcome to call me again, I work until 7PM tomorrow.

Anyway, there are

Let me start by saying a couple of things in response to this post.

I have known Steve a long, long time. You will not hunt with a more honest and competent guide than Steve. Not only do I know him very well, he worked as my head guide for 6 years. Also, he went through a guide school In Montana where I was an instructor. He graduated top in his class of twenty people. Steve worked for a fly in operation in Idaho for a very well respected outfit. He knows what he is doing!!

This post sound is a bunch of BS. If you want a guaranteed kill, go hunt behind a high fence (Africa would be a great place to go). When you book a hunt with anyone, you are paying for a service, not a kill! That is why most of us call it hunting and not killing.

I have experienced many people who get disgruntled when they don't get an animal. Look, the outfitter has no control over weather, game movements, hunters lack of ability to shoot or hunt. If Steve told you that he didn't see you on the ridge, I believe him.

And asking for $3000 back. What the hell!!! Boy you really gave away your intentions of this hunt when you said that. Steve tried to make it right with you, but sounds like you had a burr in your saddle over what could have been a misunderstanding. I'm betting you are the one that did not follow his advice. I have seen this happen way too many times with over expecting hunters. You guys read too many articles written by mostly incompetent outdoor writers and watch too many hunting shows!

--- "It is not about the money. I had a chance to take a good mulie and so did my wife but it was screwed up by the outfitter and guide".
*** Then why are asking for $3000 if it is not about the money? I just love some of you guys, always looking to blame someone else and not take responsibility for your self. Obviously you didn't do anything wrong, right!!!??? I know your type, so do many people including outfitters. It's always the outfitters fault, right!!??

[/quote] ** When an outfitter tells you he has not done any scouting because he did want the locals to know his honey holes, beware.

----BS!!! I have done this on many occasions on public land. This is a very smart and tactical move on Steve's part. There is no doubt in my mind that Steve does extensive scouting. Hell, he wants everybody to get an animal just as all outfitters do. But if this is what a successful hunt means to you, QUIT HUNTING!


When the outfitter tells you he told a couple not to come because he has not seen any deer look out.( It was to late it was the afternoon of the first day)
I asked him over the phone on 10/23/11 for a refund of the thousand a piece.
He said no you had a full five days, you ate, and had a place to stay ***( He's right, you're wrong! You're paying for a service, MORON)***.
He said get a laywer. It is not about the money. I had a chance to take a good mulie and so did my wife but it was screwed up by the outfitter and guide.[/quote]
I call BS on this too!! You're just pissed because you were wanting to buy a kill. I know that Steve would never hunt people on top of one another intentionally. Sounds like you and your group struck out on your own and/or didn't listen to him.

Why don't you tell the whole truth instead of bashing a very good outfitter that has an wonderful reputation. You sound just like these people that go to Africa, where you can shoot until you run out of money. Hell, you don't want to hunt, you want to buy a kill, then piss and moan when you don't get an animal! You are paying for a SERVICE!!!! It's illegal to guarantee a kill!!

Don't blame Steve or any outfitter that is of high class and quality when things don't go your way. He's trying to make it right from the response he posted. Why don't you "man-up" and talk to him instead of just posting this half baked BS of a story.

I would never hesitate to send Steve hunters. I know they will be well cared for and given a good hunt and 100% effort! Notice I said hunt! I have done more than one reference for Steve's hunts and the people had a great time. Some successful, some not. I will continue to send people to him without reservation.

It's all about the adventure, experience and having a good time. Not just about taking an animal so you have something to brag about to your friends and family. Are you a Safari Club member?

You are the type of hunter I never did like to have in camp!!! Most outfitters would agree with me. You are not worth the money you pay for the trouble you cause!

Hang in there Steve, don't let this clown get to you.

Paul

ps looking forward to the Pronghorn hunt!

Steve posts on here occasionally but I am sure he is too much of a professional to get into a public pissing contest. I have never met him but have never heard any but good things about Steve and his outfit until now.

So far we have heard from a satisfied client who was in camp at the same time and a close personal friend. Good enough for me. I have guided for outfitters here in Montana and could read between the lines enough to see most of Justin's story coming. Especially the part about the hunter and his friends striking out on their own with no instructions or regard to the outfitter's plans.

I do totally agree with Paul that some hunters are just not worth the money. My tips suffered greatly for that sentiment. But is the Africa-bashing really necessary?

jj,

Just to clarify, I never knew impalaslayer until I went on this hunt. He brought 4 people with him, but I was not one of them. Also, I called a sporting goods store in Riverton before my hunt, and talked to the owner, he said the absolute same thing as Paul, he is a hard-working no BS kind of guy, and he knows his stuff. One of the advantages I had to this hunt is I had never been out West before, and I had no idea what I was doing, so I was really depending on Steve's guidance. I told that to Steve before the hunt, and told him I would do whatever he told me to do. I did the best I could in listening to what Steve told me, and I had a great hunt with him, and I took a deer and a coyote that I am really proud of. That's why I'd have no problem hunting with Steve again or recommending him to my family and friends. Not to mention, Steve has to be one of the toughest, hardest working people I've ever met, and I came away from the hunt feeling more like a friend than a client.

I found this post interesting as I too have hunted with Steve and Sky Mountain. I have no dog in this fight, but feel it might be worth mentioning my experience I had with Steve....

I have not been on a ton of hunts (yet) but after a few great trips to Africa and other hunts in the US, I can say hands down that my hunt with Steve and the crew was one of my most memorable and by far one of the best values. I took my wife with me who was with us every step of the trip, and hunting with Steve that says a lot. Steve is very honest and passionate about what he does, and he is a firm believer in both safety and fair chase. Keeping up with Steve and his long stride was a challenge, but I would not have had it any other way. We could have easily drove his big F-350 truck to recover my nice mule deer, but Steve gladly packed it out even though it was a long uphill walk. He made two trips to my one carrying my deer out. There was absolutely no lack of effort by Steve to do the right thing at all times.

When driving out to what ended up being the place I took my nice antelope we seen a few huge "shooters" and lesser of a guide might have told me to lean on the hood and drop one so the hunt would be over, but knowing that these were not in an area I should shoot we glassed them a bit for fun then proceeded to have another good "hunt" with a lot of walking and stalking (even a missed shot), but his patience and cool headedness prevailed and he worked to get me into great position for a nice antelope.

It's too bad impalaslayer did not have as good of a hunt as he was hoping for, but hunting is exactly that.... hunting; and from what I experienced with Steve, if you ever decide to book a hunt with Sky Mountain Steve will definitely give you a good hunt.

As a side note my wife and I miss the awesome country fried steaks at the nice little hotel we stayed in, and waking up for a ride in Steve's big truck out to the field listening to a little rock music to get pumped up for a day of great hunting, sight seeing, friendship, and living!

If you can't tell by my post, we would definitely recommend Steve and plan to hunt with him again in the future.

P.S. JustinL... How did two hunters from SW PA end up booking with the same great outfitter clear out in Riverton WY? (I only live about 25 minutes from Monessen)

Justin and lengleng,

You two are the type that keep guides and outfitters going on those long days. Good on you both.

I'll shut up now and just read more hunting stories from Steve's successful hunters.

Impalaslayer.

Please clarify. Were you, your wife and two hunting companions hunting that day without a guide? If you had a guide, what was his response to the situation?

Thanks,
Ski+3

quote:

Originally posted by jjbull:
Steve posts on here occasionally but I am sure he is too much of a professional to get into a public pissing contest. I have never met him but have never heard any but good things about Steve and his outfit until now.

So far we have heard from a satisfied client who was in camp at the same time and a close personal friend. Good enough for me. I have guided for outfitters here in Montana and could read between the lines enough to see most of Justin's story coming. Especially the part about the hunter and his friends striking out on their own with no instructions or regard to the outfitter's plans.

I do totally agree with Paul that some hunters are just not worth the money. My tips suffered greatly for that sentiment. But is the Africa-bashing really necessary?

+1 for unnecessary Africa-bashing.

quote:

We were going to try and pull of shooting two bucks @ the same time

and righ there, i lost all interest.

Sorry you have bad feelings about the hunt.. I just returned from one that my entire party didn't see the game we were paying for.

but it was HUNTING, and we didn't even have to say a thing.. the guy came to us and offered a good solution.

shooting 2 deer at once.. I don't know you, so i can't question your ethics... but to me, a 2fer on big game is risky at best, and is likely to result in WOUNDED and LOST game.

just my 2¢

In the hunting industry and specifically in this internet community, a person's reputation speaks for them.

I can honestly say that I personally know hunters who have hunted with Steve, and from their stories,I look forward to having the opportunity to do so in the coming years. I have heard nothing but glowing reports about Steve's dedication and commitment to see his hunters succeed.

I have been on numerous big game hunts throughout the west with rifle and bow and I probably came home empty handed 40% of the time. I am not a "record book" hunter. I just want a chance to hunt and I will gladly pay for services provided but I will not pay for an animal or a "canned" hunt.

Steve, I hope our paths cross someday and I feel as they just might.

I came across this post, and was a little surprised to see the criticism leveled against Steve Lefforge and SkyMountain.

I hunted with him a couple of years ago, and have full intention of hunting with him again. He is a gentleman, an ethical sportsman of the finest caliber, a dedicated hunter and a fine outfitter with top-quality guides. Let me put it this way--when our hunt was over, I and my companions had a good enough time that we offered to serve as references. Steve didn't approach us and ask us to do so--we offered because we enjoyed ourselves so much that we wanted to return someting to Steve. And about six months later, when I saw that our contact information wasn't on his website, I e-mailed him and told him it was time to put it up there, because we wanted to let other folks know that he is an outfitter that is really a pleasure to hunt with. The whole trip (we hunted both antelope and mule deer) was more like hunting with family or friends than with a hired outfit--except that these folks knew what they were doing, which is something that you can't always say about family...

If anyone out there is thinking about booking a hunt with Steve and SkyMountain, all I can say is "Go ahead and do it." But be warned that you're not going to ride a 4x4 up to some fenced-in deer. You're going to walk, climb, glass, crawl through sage and slip and fall in the gumbo mud from before dawn 'til dark. You're going on a hunt, and when it's done, you're going to be able to say that you earned your game. As far as I'm concerned, that's hunting the right way, and I've seen enough of Steve to know that they right way is the only way that he treats his clients.

I was on this hunt with John and Justin and will say certain things could have been done better. I did not hunt with Steve for the deer part of the hunt but did take an antelope with Steve prior to the deer hunt.

I enjoy hunting with Steve and will do so again. I was hoping John and Steve could have worked something out on a future hunt but things did not work out that way.

I think part of the problem with this hunt was opening day was a Saturday and nice weather so every local person with a tag was out. I think this altered Steve and his guides plans as we encountered other hunters at their favorite spots. We also had 7 hunters and 3 guides and Steve was working Overtime to make sure we had supplies, fuel etc.

I did not shoot a deer but had the chance to shoot fork horns and small 4X4 in the same general area where Justin got his. I have been on a lot of hunts and at this point only shoot big deer. Did not see a deer I wanted to take. I was hoping my hunting partner Kell would get one but it did not happen.

Next year I will put in for elk, deer and antelope tags in Sky Mountains area and hope to hunt with them again.

BigB - Byron

That's why it's called hunting and not killing.

Guides and outfitters always love it when they hire themselves out to clients, that know more about hunting whatever it is the guide/outfitter is in the business to put on hunt for!!!!

I too have no dog in this fight, but I have seen clients that waltz into camp and are convinced they know more about hunting than their guide does.

Always makes for a fun(?)camp.

I've been on many hunts where I have not fired a shot, either through choice or bad luck. That is hunting. It could just as easily have been hikers, predators or a shift in the wind that spooked the deer. The fact that it was another guide and hunter in your party that didn't know you were there is just more bad luck.

I have met with Steve on different occasions and found him to be a stand up kind of guy. I dont think you will find anyone who loves to hunt anymore than him. He would not under any circumstances do anything to hinder one of his own hunters, or any other hunter.

I also dont see Steve as a person to get in a public pissing match, he is just not that type of guy.

Tom

Curious why "impalaslayer" hasn't chimed back in?

Could it possibly be that he did not recieve the kind of responses he wanted?

I feel bad that the man felt he had a bad hunt, but, if a client decides that they do not have to go along with the guides instructions, then I lose any feelings of the problem being strictly due to the guide.

I have had it happen a few times on the hunts I do, and seen it a few times on the hunts I have went on with other guides. I often wonder why people hire a guide/outfitter/PH, if they feel that they have much more expertise.

+1

I have been working a lot the last 2 weeks since I returned from Wyoming on the mule deer hunt with Sky Mountain Outfitters. My name is Kevin Davis and I was one of the hunters with John Cannon. I was able to get a good deer, a 5x6, it was my first one and I enjoyed my first hunt out west for the most part. There were some things I think could have been done better and like Byron (Big B)I wish that Steve and John had been able to work out their differences. John nor Justin did a very good job of relating the events that happened that morning. Here is what I saw and you can believe me or not, but I haven't been known as a liar in my 48 years.

The evening before at dinner, Brian and I (Brian was the other hunter who tagged out) were asked to go on the hunt the next morning to show the group where we were and where the deer were coming from. Steve was in on that conversation that night. When we met at the hotel the next moring nothing was said. When we stopped to gas up on the way out nothing was said. When we got to the area we hunted nothing was said. So if Steve said something in the truck to John, Ruby and Justin about us not needing to be out there - I nor Brian knew about it.

When we arrived at the hunt site, we walked down the road and took up our position about 30 ft off the ground. We were on the same rock I shot my deer from 2 days earlier we were not any further east. The tracks that were there going east were from the second deer killed by Brian on that Monday afternoon, at that time all three of us, Brian, our guide Jake and I walked down that way. That was the last time I ever saw anybody walk any further east from that point. Nobody, I repeat nobody walked any further past the spot we were on that Wed morning

While we watching deer out in the open area to our south - and Justin here are the facts - we saw 2 big mulies along with a couple of other smaller bucks and the two bucks that were fighting one of which you shot. There were at least 30 plus deer out there when you and Steve walked out you had about 8 to 12 that were further south of you, not sure if yall saw them or not. Now you also did not see both of the moose that were down by the river. Steve and I talked about this becuase he only saw the cow he said he did not see the bull and he was closer to yall than the cow. And as for the 2 big mulies they were both probably bigger than the 5x6 I shot. And we definitely were not trying to take them simultaneously, I can assure you of that. Were you also aware that while you sitting with you deer when Steve went back to get his field dressing supplies that 4 does came toward you from the east and saw you and went back toward the east. We were glassing the entire time we were on those rocks, that is why we saw all of the activity that you missed. And all of it was within 300 to 500 yards of you at anytime you were on the rocks or out in the open. I can give you the coordinates and you can look them up on google eatrh if you want to double check my estimates.

You guys walked out at the most, 400 yds from us going west to east once you got in the field. Where you shot your deer from, was where we first spotted the deer I shot 2 days earlier. It is hard for me to belive that the three times Steve came back in front of us and got close to 300 yds away that neither of yall saw us, but I do realize that can happen on hunting and maybe yall didn't see us. But we never got to that point because when we got back to the truck John and Steve exploded on one another. You said John acted like a jerk, yeah he was upset. But did you not hear both of them dropping F-bombs and GD's ?? I did, I also heard Steve say if John was such a big long distance shooter like he bragged about then he should have made the shot. I think that was taking it to the personal level don't you. Or when he said John was just jealous because his buddies got a deer and he didn't?? You remember those statements? You said John told some boldface lies...I'm not sure what part you are referring to because I am pretty sure what I am telling you is the truth, I did see what happened and I did hear what was said. You made some assumptions on things you did not see, maybe that's where it is coming from.

I just wanted to try and explain what I saw that morning and maybe that will help everyone, John and Steve included, work this out. I think anyone can see that if this had happened to them what a cluster it could and did become on both parts.

KD

Kevin,

I wasn't near you the night before at dinner, and I don't know what happened or what was said there, but I was in the truck, and Steve in no uncertain terms told John and Ruby that you shouldn't have gone. Should he have said something to you? I don't know, but I don't believe he asked you 2 to go, either.

As to you guys going to the same area you shot your deer from, how was Steve supposed to know where exactly that was? You guys walked right by him and I, I didn't hear you say anything, Steve said someone said good luck when you 4 walked past us, and left us. So Steve and I left to hunt the other side of the river. I don't know if Steve was planning to hunt on the other side of the mountain on that side of the river or what, but as it turned out, when we got out to the meadow, Steve spotted a deer, and it was one I would like to take, so we went after it. We looked over to where we thought you guys were going to be sitting, and we didn't see you, if you were there. I told you guys that when we were standing back at the truck after the ordeal, too. If I would've seen you, I wouldn't have done what we did, because I wasn't out to ruin someone's hunt, and I know Steve wouldn't have, either, because that's his business, why would he screw a hunter of his like that? John even made the comment back at the truck about how he saw Steve purposely go around other hunters (not with us) so he didn't disturb their hunt. John didn't understand why Steve would do that to his own hunter, in my opinion, he wouldn't, and he didn't, we didn't see you guys there. Now, if you guys were concerned about someone spooking deer from you and anyone in our group not getting messed up, don't you think you 4 should have stopped to at least consult the guide? I stood there wondering what was going on when you guys went past us, but I had the guide with me, too, so I wasn't worried. It was no fault of Steve's that you 4 went off on your own, you acted like you didn't need him.

As to all the deer that were out there, I find it pretty hard to believe that there were 30 deer in that meadow that Steve and I didn't see. Maybe there were, but we saw the group of deer that had the one in it that I took, and another group that was around the mountain that you guys couldn't see (I'm still not 100% sure where you were, but if you were on the other side of the river, you could not have seen this group of deer. They were all does, though.). That's a little beside the point, but again, we didn't see those deer, and again, even if we weren't concerned about John and Ruby's hunt being disturbed, why would we go through a meadow and scare all the deer out of it when we were hunting deer, too? It just doesn't make sense. I did see the group of does come up while Steve went back and got his pack frame. There was another group of deer that came out on the other side of me when Steve got there, it had a little buck in it. While Steve was dressing my deer, a coyote ran through the meadow, as well. Moose? I don't remember anyone saying anything about moose that day, or the whole trip other than when Byron and Kell said they saw a small bull moose when they hunted that area. Again, that doesn't have much to do with anything, either, though.

When you guys walked back to the truck, John is the first one that exploded, Steve yelled and cussed back at him, but what was he supposed to do? Stand there and let John talk to him like that? As to Steve saying about John bragging to him about what a great long range shooter he was, yes, he said that. And him saying that John was jealous because his buddies got a deer and he didn't, yes, he said that, too. After you killed your deer, about the only thing John had to say about that was, "Sucks, don't it?" or "I oughta kick Kev in his @#$!" I never met you or Bryan before the hunt, and I didn't get to talk to you guys much while we were in WY, but I told him, "No, it's great they had those opportunities, and they did great." Why would someone say that about their friends killing a nice deer, unless they were jealous? Like I said in my original post, if I never shared a hunting camp with John again, I would be OK with that. Nice guy to talk to about other things, but not hunting.

As to me making assumptions, maybe I did, but I didn't lie about anything, we never saw you guys in the rocks, and we didn't see the 30 or 40 deer in the meadow, or the 2 moose. John did lie about not seeing a buck before that morning, because he saw a buck the night before. Kell saw at least one buck, too (John said he didn't see any), because if you remember correctly he put his rifle on it, "Just to see what it would feel like." He lied about Steve not doing any scouting because he didn't want the locals to know his honey holes. Steve said he didn't go through the area we hunted on the first day because he didn't want to spook the deer out of there. We saw deer, just no bucks on that drive. Also, John lied about Steve saying he told hunters not to come out because he wasn't seeing any deer. He didn't tell anyone not to come deer hunting this year because he wasn't seeing enough deer. He told the 3 of us (John, Ruby, and I) that he's told people to not come lion hunting because of certain reasons the hunting wouldn't be productive, but he did not tell anyone to not come deer hunting this year because he wasn't seeing deer).

In any case, I stand behind what I said before. I had a great hunt with Steve and I would hunt with him again, as well as recommend him to my friends and family. I'm sorry if you guys felt you were jaded on this hunt or didn't have a good time for any reason. We got to see some beautiful country together, had some laughs, ate some good food, and we all should have really enjoyed life while we were out there. I did, and I hope everyone that was out there has some good to remember from the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by chuckmaxman:
Curious why "impalaslayer" hasn't chimed back in?

BECAUSE HIS NEGATIVE POST IS COUNTERED BY 6-8 POSITIVE POSTS(INCLUDING SOME BY PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE)???

SkiBumplus3
one of us
Posted 24 October 2011 18:56 Hide Post
Impalaslayer.

Please clarify. Were you, your wife and two hunting companions hunting that day without a guide? If you had a guide, what was his response to the situation?

Thanks,
Ski+3 We were with out the guide. We went to the same location were Kevin and Brian had taken their deer @ on Monday. I thought the plan was set. Steve the guide said he did not want them to go because of more scent, but then said the more eye's the better and nothing else was said on the way to the location.

Maybe the best thing is for the past clients of Steve is to call him or maybe he will post. I think he is a honest guy and yes hard working. The fact of the matter is all things that were said and happened are true beleive it or not!!
As far as a guarentee kill I nor my wife was expecting that nor do we hunt like that. We did not complain about any walking or the rides to the areas. Like it or not those things happened.
As far as Kevin and Brian goes, I am very happy they both killed nice bucks, after all I put this trip together. Justin if you do not know the differece between joking around with your friends and being serious you are missing out on life. Hell when I saw Kevin and Brian Monday night I told them I was going to kick their buts. Do not try and turn it around. As far as your smaller buck, the deer you said you did not want was bigger than the one you took by far. Yes I was glassing some where as you call it. I do not recall you doing any glassing. Steve my wife and my self did all the glassing. My wife did not want to shoot that deer because it was too small. Is that why you went back out there and put a stalk on it for the second time. Yes I saw it. Also I do not know how you heard so much of Steve's and mine argument because when it started you jumped in the truck. You did not want any part of it. For all 5days Steve was with Justin except when we did a drive. My wife and I had know propblem with that. I would take her to a spot and then go to another spot several hundred yards away. We saw lots of does but no bucks. The only shooter deer we saw was the last morning. I would like to know if the shoes were reversed and this happened to you would you not be pissed. The first two bucks were around the 140 class. No Justin Steve did not see the 30" but when he came back that evening he saw just how many deer were out and he did see one that was much bigger than Kevins. I wanted to shoot him but but both you and Steve were behind that deer and I could see you guys in my scope with the deer in it Not good. How many chances do you get on a public land hunt and see a deer like that much less a shot. As far as checking back in I have not been able to because @ work some kind of filter was added and would not let me on. It has been removed so I can get on again @ work.

John,

I don't know what you want out of this. As far as having fun with life, I came away from my trip without any complaints, it was a hunting trip and it didn't come from a script, but it was a good time for me, I got to see some beautiful country, had some laughs, met some great people, and was lucky enough to take a nice buck that made me very happy. If you were kidding about "it sucking" that Bryan and Kevin killed a deer and wanting to kick their butts, I'm sorry, I didn't think you were totally kidding, though.

As far as the buck I didn't kill the night before I took one, it was not larger than the buck I took. As for your wife not wanting to take it, I don't believe she ever saw that buck, I ran back to the truck after I put one stalk on it (I was going to hint the other side of the road), asked her if she wanted it, described how big it was to her, and she said no. Then I walked back to go on the other side of the road, and yes I did have to walk past the deer again, but I didn't "stalk" the deer again.

As far as me not wanting any part of your and Steve's discussion, it was between you and him, Steve's a big boy that didn't need any of my help. I told you there that we did not see you guys in the rocks, and we didn't. I said that a few times on here, also, and I'll say it again. What exactly did you think I didn't want a part of? I'm just curious about that...

Steve apologized to me for the outburst you and he had, hoping it didn't ruin my day and getting my first mulie. It didn't, I had a good day up to that point, and I wasn't going to let your hissy fit ruin it, either.

As to all the deer that were out there, where did they go when we spooked them? How did they spook and not spook the deer that Steve and I were stalking? I don't know much about mule deer but that doesn't make sense to me, either. Also, if you saw me and Steve walk past you and past the deer, what, pray tell were you doing aiming your rifle down there, with us in your scope!? I'm glad that you didn't mention that in WY, because I would have been quite upset about that little detail...

As to the filter at work, you and Ruby brought a laptop to WY with you, you didn't check in at home??? I'm not trying to start any trouble, but Steve's one heck of a nice guy, he's honest, hard working, and if I'm able to, I'll be in his camp next year.

I would gladly hunt with impalaslayer and his wife. They are both nice people and fun to be around.

Sometimes things just do not go right and he is telling his story.

As I said before I wish he and Steve could work something out because they are Both great guys.

BigB

Sounds like too many hunters in the one place... always going to get ugly!!

The more that is posted by the parties involved, the more this appears to be a total cluster with mistakes being made on both sides.

One thing I have learned over the years about such situations is that everyone involved has a really strong tendency to overlook the actual part they played in the situation.

Sounds like one guide trying to handle 6???hunters.

3 guides and 7 hunters

I don`t get why they were all hunting one area?At least at the same time.

Only place we saw a bunch of bucks in 5 days of hunting. We covered a lot of ground and saw very few male deer with antlers.

quote:

Originally posted by impalaslayer:
Maybe the best thing is for the past clients of Steve is to call him or maybe he will post. I think he is a honest guy and yes hard working. The fact of the matter is all things that were said and happened are true beleive it or not!!
As far as a guarentee kill I nor my wife was expecting that nor do we hunt like that. We did not complain about any walking or the rides to the areas. Like it or not those things happened.
As far as Kevin and Brian goes, I am very happy they both killed nice bucks, after all I put this trip together. Justin if you do not know the differece between joking around with your friends and being serious you are missing out on life. Hell when I saw Kevin and Brian Monday night I told them I was going to kick their buts. Do not try and turn it around. As far as your smaller buck, the deer you said you did not want was bigger than the one you took by far. Yes I was glassing some where as you call it. I do not recall you doing any glassing. Steve my wife and my self did all the glassing. My wife did not want to shoot that deer because it was too small. Is that why you went back out there and put a stalk on it for the second time. Yes I saw it. Also I do not know how you heard so much of Steve's and mine argument because when it started you jumped in the truck. You did not want any part of it. For all 5days Steve was with Justin except when we did a drive. My wife and I had know propblem with that. I would take her to a spot and then go to another spot several hundred yards away. We saw lots of does but no bucks. The only shooter deer we saw was the last morning. I would like to know if the shoes were reversed and this happened to you would you not be pissed. The first two bucks were around the 140 class. No Justin Steve did not see the 30" but when he came back that evening he saw just how many deer were out and he did see one that was much bigger than Kevins. I wanted to shoot him but but both you and Steve were behind that deer and I could see you guys in my scope with the deer in it Not good. How many chances do you get on a public land hunt and see a deer like that much less a shot. As far as checking back in I have not been able to because @ work some kind of filter was added and would not let me on. It has been removed so I can get on again @ work.

Spell check and paragraphs are your friends

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
3 guides and 7 hunters

And you expect what? You get what you pay for. Not every hunt ends up with meat in the cooler.

You know, 'bout 4-5 years ago I hunted western colorado around Durango. My guide and I were glassing and we saw a nice 5 x 5 about 900+ yds away. There was another guide/hunter who was part of our same group who were in a better position to get on that buck. We talked them into a good position via walkie talkies. Nice deer, dunno 160-70" range <- forgot but he had neat kickers going straight out from both forks.

I didn't shoot anything that trip. We spent 5 days hunting hard for a 6 x 6 (locals named him Goliath) with forks on his forks but never got off a shot. Was told he scored 220 when he was shot a few weeks later.

I really enjoyed that hunt. I gave my guide $500 extra as I hunted 2 more days for that deer. I certainly didn't whine because I didn't kill anything.

Very next year I was hunting in Sonora 'ol Mexico and my guide and I got a call from my buddie & his guide, who had already shot 2 mule deer that trip. Dropped a nice 7 x 5 mulie. If
you hunt a lot it all kinda comes out in the wash.

But if you want to shoot some animals, go to a game ranch that'll guarantee you and your wife can pull off some doubles.

FMC +1.