The post on hunting in Morrocco sent me onto dangerous ground -- thinking. I'm in my mid-forties and starting to make a good living. My kids will launch in a few years, my wife wants to travel and I want to hunt. I don't care about trophies, and I'm really more interested in learning about different hunting cultures around the world.

EXCLUDING Africa, for which I'll assemble the proper battery, what single cartridge would you recommend for hunting mostly non-dangerous game in Europe, Asia, North and South America, and possibly the Arctic? Ammo availability is a huge deal, so no wildcats. I prefer a cartridge with light recoil. Also, no military cartridges or US-only items like the 35 Whelen.

I'm thinking a 270/7x64 or a 300 WM.

What about you?


Okie John

I'll second Finn's comment.

Yep, have to agree 06 or maybe even 7 mag. I have both and love them both.

Problem with Finn - he didnt look at the criteria we got here! 'No military cartridges'

Pity, thats my choice for an international rifle!

Apart from France - are there any other countries that will not permit temp import of the wonderful '06?

Rgds Ian

I note that you include the .300WM in your list of possibles, despite you desire for a rifle with light recoil. If you can adjust to the 300, then you'd find the .375 to be tolerable; not lovable, but tolerable, and that's your answer. .375 H&H is probably the single non-military caliber for which you'd be likely to find fodder anywhere.

Of your choices the 300 Win. Mag. The Weatherby version is my personal favorite.
Doug

I would vote fro the 7mmRem Mag in any of the top bolt guns. Great international round and not a hard recoiling rifle.

G'day, For a flat-shooting, moderate recoiling gun, the 7mm Rem Mag is hard to beat, for the uses you have listed. And it is fairly easy to find ammo for, worldwide.
Sure the big 300's are better, but the 7mm mag kicks no worse than a 30/06.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

7mm Remington Magnum

The 270 will be a big problem in Germany.

Burkhard

o-j,

I'd recommend the .30/06 Springfield as the one-gun around the world rifle. Having said that, the .300 Weatherby Magnum is also written up as the supposed nee plus ultra for world-wide one-gunners.

why would I NOT select one of the World's most popular and available rifle cartidges based on an antiquated law from one (or perhaps several more) country(ies) where the opportunity for foreigners to hunt is somewhat restricted anyway?

While you are hunting with your .30/06 around the world and buying ammunition locally for it you can purchase a bottle of Bordeaux and a baguette at the same time and pretend you are in France. (Just ignore the lack of the garlic smell and the language problem). Game animals hunted in France are common throughout the Continent and many other regions of the world.

Net, from my point of view, select a .30/06 Sprg.; forget the Center-of-the-Universe and hunt the remainder of the world with it, after experiencing great hunting everyhwere else you'll never know you missed France!

Select the 300 Winnie. In many countries it is far more popular than the 30-06, here for an outstanding example. Any reloader can get some .30 bullets and concoct a few rounds for the Winnie, not so for the Weatherby due to lack of cases. Ditto for the 375, which I love.
Regards

As fla3006 keeps telling us (I just beat him to the answer on this thread): one world, one rifle, .375 H&H.

i prefer a 375hyh second a 300winch or wby.Iselected the 375hyh because with it you can hunt evry creature in the world,with 230 and 270 grains point you have a good reacg and with the 300 grains you can kill a dumbo,besides the 375hyh its a very pouplar caliber.juan

I would consider the 7mm Rem mag as well as the .300 magnums. I have had great sucess with mine and it recoils a little less than the .300's

I'm a fan of the .270 Winchester, but since the game and terrain would vary greatly, I too would probably step up to a 7mm Remington Magnum. They are a good bet for light recoil as well. Shoot them well and nothing will get up for a second shot.

Another good option, but lacking in ammo for now is the .300 WSM. I think it's a hell of a fine little round, a little more efficient in a shorter barrel and more bearable in a light gun than it's bigger brothers. 180gr. Partitions drop stuff. Period.

I like the .270 and the 7mmRem Mag. Bothgreat shooting cartridges. &mm gives you a little more punch with the heavier weight bullets.

300 winnie, if you are excluding Africa there are very few dangerous animals you can´t shoot well with premiums 220 grainers, for the rest you can use mild loads with the 180 grainers if you think it kicks too much. A 30.06 will be an excellent option also (the best for me), but as someone said, it´s a military round and maybe in some european countries you can have some trouble...

L

Okie
I would get a Blaser R 93 with a 30-06 and a 375 H&H bbl.

Gentlemen, thank you for the answers. Like I said, this is a thinking exercise, so I'm not off to buy a new rifle just this minute. I'll narrow the field then prowl the gunshops, and the luxury of time lets me prolong the hunt.

I'm surprised no one spoke up for the 7x64. I can appreciate ignoring France, but for many reasons it may become a repeat destination, and that's why I considered the 7x64.

I was also surprised by the popularity of the 7RM, but it makes sense - ballistically it's a 30-06, never military, and ammo is pretty much everywhere.

What about the 9.3x62?


Okie John

The 7x64 can be hard to find outside Europe, and if you can find it, you won't believe the prices! Try $108 AUD for 20, Vs $28 AUD for 20 7mm RM.
As for the 9.3x62, I think it's a great cartridge, but it wasn't in, or even close to, the list you gave us to work with.
If all your shots will 150m or closer, it will do just fine. If you have to start reaching out 300m+, for say, sheep, gams or long shots on plains game in Africa or OZ, then the 9.3x62 can fall a bit short in the reach department.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Okie John

7X64, 7mm RM or 270win are all fine calibers and a good choices.

Friends of mine who have hunted in Iran, Pakistan,Kazakhstan and Mongolia had no problem to find 7X64, 270 win and 7mm rem. RUAG, RWS, Norma, Sako, Hirtenberger offers a decent selection of ammo in these calibers. In a lot of countries you can forget Wal-Fart prices, in others you can't find anything.

A nostalgic but highly impractical choice would be 7X61 Super which Rudolf Sand used for 281 species of game

Cheers
/JOHAN

there is no one cartridge, do it all so whatever you pick is a compromise of various degrees....

I suppose I would opt for a 300 Win. Mag or a .270..Ammo is fairly available in te 4 corners of the earth for both.

Stay away from the short range calibers like the 9.3s, 375s as they are wonderful rounds but have limitations that don't fit the Urial Mountains etc......

.375 H&H would be my vote.

With a good spitzer bullet (270 gr) will have the same trajectory as the .30-06, yet a 300 gr bullet will be useful on anything that walks.

Make it in a takedown and it is easier and unobtrusive to carry too.

Similar for the 9.3x62 but a bit more versatile.

270 falls foul of European 7mm min for boar etc

30-06 not allowed in France

300Win Mag not light recoiling

7x64 not 'commonly available'

Leads one to the conclusion of 7mm rem mag...I think available mostly everywhere even in Scotland!

Hard to argue with a 7mm RM given your parameters. Still, I think the 300 WM would fill the bill perfectly and would be my choice. In an 8.75 lb "ready to go" rifle it'll shoot flat and grass anything.

I was going to throw the 6.5 Sweedish into the mix, but as 1894 points out the 7mm minimum for Boar, so that's me out...

Would any of the 8mm calibres be a decent comprimise betrween the 7mm's and the 9.3's?

Rgd
FB

My choice would almost always be the .30-06. If they don't allow the .30-06, then they don't get my business. Make it a really nice, really functional lightweight rifle with a longer barrel (say, a Mark V Ultra Lightweight), and move some 180gr. bullets to 2750+, and any thin skinned game (minus Mr. Bear) just made my shitlist. Top it with a quality 2.5-8x, 3-9x, or even 2.5-10x and go.

quote:

If they dont allow the 30-06 then they dont get my business

That's similar to going to a foreign country and saying well if they dont speak your language your not going.

Everywhere I go, I see guys with AK47's. Not sure what bullets they shoot, but that seems to be the international gun of choice.

On the other hand, the .3006 or .300 win mag seems available where I have been.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
270 falls foul of European 7mm min for boar etc

30-06 not allowed in France

300Win Mag not light recoiling

7x64 not 'commonly available'

Leads one to the conclusion of 7mm rem mag...I think available mostly everywhere even in Scotland!

7x64 not commonly available in uk .in europe its most probably the most popular calibre.
fallow buck/1894 who told you 7mm is minimum cal?germant has 6.5 minimum cal for schwarzwild
i have shot boar in poland with 6.5 no problems
scirroco

.375 H&H : oustanding performance, can deal with any living creature you might happen to hunt and common enough worldwide - so no ammo problem for it ...

but if you would prefer something that kick less and still capable of delivering considerable knock down power , then the .300 either weatherby (not so common to find ammo for it) or the winnie (powerfull and common enough) ...

but then the 7 mm RemMag is good also for any game you might encounter outside Africa and its recoil lighter ...

does it really need to be a single cartridge question ????

gun / cartridge diversity is part of the fun !!!

Seriously , I will take that rifle (chambered in any big game cartridge) to which I would be most accustomed and with the one I would achieve better perfomance, thus the ability achieved with that very rifle will be able to compensate any necessity of more power or longer range that you might happen to wish in that particular hunting situation ...

...hum 8x68S ?

quote:

Originally posted by okie john:
....<snip>........

EXCLUDING Africa, for which I'll assemble the proper battery, what single cartridge would you recommend for hunting mostly non-dangerous game in Europe, Asia, North and South America, and possibly the Arctic? Ammo availability is a huge deal, so no wildcats. I prefer a cartridge with light recoil. Also, no military cartridges or US-only items like the 35 Whelen.

I'm thinking a 270/7x64 or a 300 WM.

What about you?

Okie John

Recoil is subjective but here are my suggestions:

7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, .300 Win Mag, .300 Weatherby Mag, .338 Win Mag

Personally, I'd probably just choose the .30-06 and go hunting. But, since you said no military cartridges, then I'd choose the .300 Win Mag. (But, don't some sniper units use the .300 Win Mag? Does that make it a military cartridge for the purpose of those countries that ban military chamberings? Hmmmmm....)

My two cents...
-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by scirroco:

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
270 falls foul of European 7mm min for boar etc

30-06 not allowed in France

300Win Mag not light recoiling

7x64 not 'commonly available'

Leads one to the conclusion of 7mm rem mag...I think available mostly everywhere even in Scotland!

7x64 not commonly available in uk .in europe its most probably the most popular calibre.
fallow buck/1894 who told you 7mm is minimum cal? germant has 6.5 minimum cal for schwarzwild
i have shot boar in poland with 6.5 no problems
scirroco

7mm = 0.27559 inches (7mm/25.4 mm per inch) Doesn't that make the .270 Win (.277" diameter) basically a 7mm? Or is it the bore (not groove) diameter that matters?

-Bob F.

Bob .270 is considered 6,9 mm here in EU

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
7mm = 0.27559 inches (7mm/25.4 mm per inch) Doesn't that make the .270 Win (.277" diameter) basically a 7mm? Or is it the bore (not groove) diameter that matters?

-Bob F.

Correct. The bullet diameter of a .277 cal bullet is 7.04mm, the bullet diameter of a .284 cal (i.e. "7mm") bullet is 7.21 mm. Go figure...

I have a feeling the 7mm designation comes from barrel diameter over lands. But nobody really uses that dimension in practice, so the issue of 7mm causes some confusion from time to time.

Case in point, in many Swiss cantons (states), there is a minimal caliber requirement of 7mm. People interpret this requirement as either .284 cal or .277 cal minimum, depending on which exact dimension they think about. When you try to ask the people who should know (i.e. the almighty authorities), it seems you can make them say either by a bit of leading questioning. Mostly, though the bullet diameter is the simplest and most commonly thought of dimension, in which case a .277 cal does the trick. Confused?? Well, so are we...

- mike

My mental picture of an "International Rifle" would be the 7x57mm as it can kill anything within reason and ammo is available just about anywhere, but since it was used as a military cartridge long long ago I guess it doesn't fill the bill.

Obvious answer is the 9.3x62.

You can please most of the people most of the time..........

I doubt there's one best choice.

I really like 30-06 and would like a 7x57.