quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
Obvious answer is the 9.3x62.

how would that be obvious? How many small gunshops carry 9.3x62 ammo?

300 Mag not commonly available

7x64 not commonly available

270 not commonly available

30-06 commonly available!!!
Ignore France as a hunting destination, go there to eat food, not shoot it. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by Tordenskiold:
Ignore France as a hunting destination, go there to eat food, not shoot it. ;-)

Maybe I'll come up with a rifle for France and use a 30-06 everywhere else.

thanks,


Okie John

you said no wildcats, but I would think if you loaded your own the 8mm-06 would be about perfect if you could do it with a decent 180 grain bullet.

My vote is the 270 cuz the proformance and availability.

I realize this is an old topic, but I just found it and would like to say that 375 H&H ammo IS NOT available everywhere. In my area of eastern Texas, the ONLY place to get ammo is specialty gun shops. In my opinion, if WalMart doesn't carry ammo for it, then I can't shoot it. I just bought a 375 H&H and am fixing to unload it for lack of ammo availablility. As far as an all around cartridge, I would go with the 300 Win Mag.

Another advantage to the Blaser R 93.
You can change barrels to suit the game, country, or ammo availablity.

If you are recoil sensitive, and if you load your own, you could get a .300 Win. Mag. and then underload it to get 30-06 velocities from it. This would get you past the restrictions on military calibers but give you a rifle and load that can be used on everything in the world except the biggest things in Africa. For the largest game, apart from those things that really need a larger caliber, you could use this rifle but switch to full-power loads.

Okie Jon-- I would first off select a rifle that fit and felt like an extention.

As per cal, there are so many good ones and you could make do with most all.

I would first and formost be concerned with ammo availability.

I gotta go with Finn and 458 on this one.

06 it would be for me

Mark D

quote:

Also, no military cartridges

Mark, had he not added this clause I'd be right there with you on the 30-06... verbotten in more than one European country.

300 wm - as universal a non-dg rifle as there ever was...given the choices you listed.

A Blaser R 93 with a 300 Win Mag bbl and a 375 H&H bbl, a Passport, and a pocket full of money is all you need to hunt the WORLD.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
A Blaser R 93 with a 300 Win Mag bbl and a 375 H&H bbl, a Passport, and a pocket full of money is all you need to hunt the WORLD.

Now we wait for JOHAN!


Cheers, Dave.

First, thanks to everyone for keeping this thread alive with such smart, well-thought out responses.

Normally, the answer to this question is the 30-06, but taking it and any other military cartridge off the table, as France has done, makes it a good deal more challenging. Everything people here have mentioned makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure I know how to get the rifle to fit me. From there, it's a simple matter to get the proper barrel screwed onto the action.

Thanks again,


Okie John

.375 HH.

quote:

I would vote fro the 7mmRem Mag in any of the top bolt guns. Great international round and not a hard recoiling rifle.

A little slow in replying but as said above

I would vote fro the 7mmRem Mag in any of the top bolt guns. Great international round and not a hard recoiling rifle.

I shoot a .300 WSM and I am convinced that it is the BEST all around cartidge. I have taken Whitetail Deer all the way to Eland with it. It kicks less than the .300 Win. Mag and it actually out performs it. I would say that the Winchester Supreme 180 gr. FailSafe would also be the best all around bullet choice for it.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
you said no wildcats, but I would think if you loaded your own the 8mm-06 would be about perfect if you could do it with a decent 180 grain bullet.

that MAY work depending on what parent brass you form your cases from as some obnoxious/officious customs or law enforcement official could get all hot and bothered by the headstamp on your cases...


As for the Military caliber issue?
I'd concerned about takingan 8mm-06 or any of several other "wildcat" calibers to France, Spain or Turkey (And I think Italy goes on this list as well) or any other country that has issues with "Military calibers" unless I'd formed my cases from 35Whelen or 338A-square brass, just to avoid excessive bureau-crap.

And you aren't going to find widcat ammo anywhere here either....

I'm thinking 7mmRemMag myself....

If there's anything in europe you can't kill
with a 7mmMag it is escaped from a zoo.

AllanD

C.J. McElroy, the founder of Safari Club International, hunted with just four rifles during his 70-years of hunting: A .458 WM, a .30/06 (a pump Remington!), a .300 Weatherby Mag, and a 7 mm Rem Mag.

He used the .30/06 only on his first African safari in the 1960s, and he used the .458 only for African elephant and Asian tiger. The vast majority of the nearly 300 types of game he shot was taken with the .300 Weatherby. He even shot a 50-inch Cape buffalo with it.

In his later years, however, he switched to the 7 mm Rem Mag because the Weatherby's recoil was getting to be too much for him. He then shot an amazing variety of game with his 7 RM. He told me he wished he had downsized earlier.

When we were in Zambia in 1994, he borrowed my 7 RM to shoot a big Crayshay defassa waterbuck, the very last trophy he ever collected.

Although my experience will never match Mac's even if I lived to be 200 I've hunted on six continents, too, and my 7 mm RM has not let me down on all types of game from grysbok and suni to Livingstone eland, elk and Alaska-Yukon moose. I've never been fascinated with bears so the only bears I've taken were Arizona blacks, but I would not hesitate to go after a polar bear or a big brown bear with with my 7 RM loaded with proper 175-grain bullets.

I can handload especially for the animal I intend to hunt, or I can buy 7 RM factory ammo just about anywhere ammo is sold.

What's more, the 7 RM's recoil is considerably easier on my tender shoulder, cheek and brain than my .300 Win Mag, my .338 or my .375 H&H.

I am 6 feet 4, overweight, and not a wimp. I have shot just about every caliber up to the .460 Weatherby and .500 Jeffery at one time or another. In my younger days I competed in long-range silhouette shooting in Mexico, firing as many as 100 rounds of .270 and .30/06 ammo every week. I am not a novice shooter, but I simply do not shoot well with anything that slams me with more than about 20 ft/lbs.

If its recoil does not bother you, do as Mac did and buy a .300 Weatherby. Ammo might be hard to find in many places, but you should be able to plan ahead and take enough for where you're going. It's certainly enough gun for anything that walks in this world, including an elephant in a pinch if you have solid bullets and you can convince the local game guard that it's a legal caliber.

Below is a comparison* of the recoil of the calibers mentioned in this thread.

RECOIL ENERGY:
7 Rem Mag................19.2 ft/lb
.30/06...................... 20.3 ft/lb
.300 Win Mag............25.9 ft/lb
.300 Weatherby .......32.8 ft/lb
.338 Win. Mag...........33.1 ft/lb
9.3x62......................35.4 ft/lb
.375 H&H ..................46.8 ft/lb

Bill Quimby

* Before anyone jumps me, I know that FELT recoil depends on a lot of things, including rifle weight, stock design, velocity and bullet weight, and I've not included any of these things, but these data should be useful for comparison's sake.

In addition to the 9.3x62mm, another good international rifle is the one I just bought, a .505 Gibbs.

i would like to have one of the 300s or a 375 hh or wby . but my choice is 280 remington, coupled with a 358 norma magnum or a 375. iam soon getting a 358nm builed on a Shultz and Larsen 65dl ,ihave bullets ranging from 200 grs too 310 grs woodleigh sf/solids.

But the good choice would have beeb 300HH/ wby and 375. for smaller cartridges a good 7mm and the 400 a-square perhaps, that sounds interresting or the tembo, as you can see iam very interrested in guns and hunting and i could sit here all night just writing this on subject.

7mil mag all the way

Brilliant calibre

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:

Apart from France - are there any other countries that will not permit temp import of the wonderful '06?

I understand that some Latin American countries have similar restrictions against any cartridge that is/was used as a military one.

The 270, 280, 7X64, 7mm Mag. any of the Weatherby ones, the .300 Winchester Mag., and a number of others would fit under that wire -- but not the '06.

Who cares what is allowed in france, unless you are going to hunt snails or such. The 06 or 7x57 is fine in civilized countries. Pick a real world cartridge that has ammo availible in out of the way places.

I have to throw my vote in for the 375 H&H. While I am not from East Texas, it is still amazing where you can find ammo for the 375, especially where they have actual Big Game to shoot. LMHO

By the way, I live in Texas also.

quote:

Originally posted by Brain1:
Who cares what is allowed in france, unless you are going to hunt snails or such. The 06 or 7x57 is fine in civilized countries. Pick a real world cartridge that has ammo availible in out of the way places.

I may get transferred to Paris. The French have pretty much perfected the long weekend, so there's time to go to the hills to hunt deer and wild boar. Plus the women are spectacular, the French are pretty good cooks, and I hear they've learned to make wine.


Okie John

Jan Guillou the Swedish journalist and author and writer, he hunts ca 100 days a year. his rifle is a
Viggo Olsson Husquarna 1900 in 7mm Rem Mag . the ammo ? Norma Oryx 160 grain and also Federal TBBC. He has shot Polar bear with it, that was filmed , he made 4 good hunting tv programms, one shot in the lungs and the second one in the neck. Maral, wild boar , Red Deer in Hungary, Ibex in Kazakhstan and very much more.

He has a rifle in .308 but that is reserve , his 7mm hasnt failed him. His scope is a Zeiss 3-12x56 with light in

. My choice would have been a 7mm Weatherby, its something mythical just ower those words. "7 mm Weatherby". The 7mm is around that has its well deserved place in the big game hunting around the world.

I know that you said no military cart. buttttt
the 308 winchester is not the 7.62 x 51 nato. The barrel and ammo box would say 308 win. Ammo is every where and in fact that nasty old nato ball is suprizingly effective on deer size stuff if you can't find nice nonthreatening civilian ammo. It works on just about anything. It can be made up into a very light short rifle that travels very well. Recoil and muzzle blast are minimal

I use 6.5x57, 7x64, 308,3006 and 9.3x62 but would recommend a BLASER in 300MAG for an all round travel rifle.
I used a 300 barrel with my blaser for Ibex in Mongolia last year and was very impressed.
ozhunter

Okie, it's my understanding the 7-08 is quite popular in France.

At about the same age and in approximately the same situation, I approached the same problem. My answer? A black composite stocked, black chromed Whitworth in .375. At 9.5 lbs it has no particular recoil and I, too, considered myself recoil sensitive at the time. It will go anywhere, kill anything and put three bullets into a thumbnail at 100 yards. In those days, it was purely a custom proposition but now I suspect that nearly the same gun could be obtained from more than one manufacturer. (That sort of thing is always happening to me and I resent it!) If you want to email me, I can show you pictures. Eventually, I built up a little sister to it in 6.5x55 and with those two guns and a good 12 ga. the world is my oyster. And if I ever do decide to hunt France, I'll leave the 6.5 home and be perfectly satisfied.

Soooooo, you might as well go get a .375. You'll get one eventually because everybody does, so why kick yourself for not getting it in the first place?