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Operator: Leithen Valley Trophy Hunts Australia PH: George and Alan Stewart Location: Conway Station Northern Territory Australia Rifle/Ammo: Charles Osborne double in 450/400 3 1/4”Nitro Express shooting Superior Ammo loaded 400gr Woodleigh softs This Aussie hunt had been in the works for a couple of years now. Several of us here on Accurate Reloading decided to get together and have a group hunt somewhere. Australia was the chosen place. Somewhere new and new big game to hunt. On board for the hunt were myself, Steve (Nganga), Cal Pappas, Rob (Omnivorous Bob), and Mike Brooks. Also in tow was Cal’s cameraman Greg and his son, Casey. Dates were set with George at the Jan 2011 Reno SCI show and the waiting game started. Fast forward to the 2012 show, and we were all finalizing the last bits before the hunt dates arrived. For the most part all was smooth and easy. The paperwork to get the firearms into and out of Aussie was straightforward and easy to understand, but they really do pile it on. I have never seen such a bureaucratic nightmare for taking sporting arms into a country. Like I said, it is all fairly easy, but a lot of it has to be sent in months ahead of time along with signed affidavits stating your criminal history (of hopefully lack thereof) with the police dept here, passport pics, etc.. Also, Qantas Air must have immediate knowledge of any firearms or ammo coming onto their planes at the time of the flight booking. If that is not done, it can and will create issues when you arrive in LAX to board the flight. Also, make sure your visa has your name shown EXACTLY as your passport does. Do not rely on your booking agent to do this. All minor stuff, but any one slip can end up costing you your flight or having your firearm not make it onboard. Luckily, all was smooth sailing for me. Cal had a minor problem, but it worked itself out. Also, the EXPORT permits to leave with your rifles are just as important to have properly filled out and completed as well. Aus Customs will ask for them in Darwin when you arrive at the airport to start your journey home. Rob had the foresight to complete his ahead of time and he was good to go. The rest of us had to fill them out there. The Aussie Customs agents were very kind and helpful though and breezed us through. But having them done ahead is just one less hassle to deal with. After flying into Sydney and on into Darwin, we all went out for a bite (Noodlehouse in Darwin is FANTASTIC!) we over-nighted at the Travel Lodge in Darwin. George was there early the next day ready for the 7hr drive out to the lodge. We arrived shortly after dark after a few stops along the way for groceries, curios, etc. As for Conways Station, it is 400,000 acres of privately owned property owned by George and his parents, Alan and Sue Stewart of New Zealand. They purchased the property 6 years ago and have since built a beautiful lodge on the place. Conways is surrounded on all sides by the Aboriginal lands of Arnhemland. George left NZ and now resides full time on the property. A few pics of the area. Steve and I were hunting 2X1 together with George. Cal and Rob were hunting together (with Greg filming) and Mike hunted with Alan. To say we saw buffalo would be an understatement!! I’d venture we saw over 200 per day, every day. There are literally thousands of buffalo in that area of northern Aus. It was pretty unbelievable when we’d go more than 10 min without seeing anything. Along with the buffalo, we saw many many scrub bulls, wallabies, wallaroos, kangaroos, etc. Pigs were scarce this season and while we saw a handful, no shots were taken at any oikers. I won’t go into day by day detail, but I will say hunting with a close buddies Steve and George was as much fun as one man could ever hope to have. I had a blast with my friends out in the Aussie bush. George and I have know one another for many years now. I worked for his father in New Zealand for 8 months in 2001. The Stewarts had become like a 2nd family to me. After I had my hunting accident in NZ when George and I were on a 5 day solo backpack trip for tahr/chamois (I fell and broke my pelvis, dislocated my hip and a few other not so fun things), he became like another brother. So hunting with him again made it all the more special. Being the lucky guy Steve is, he drew first blood and as such ended up with a HUGE buffalo. His bull had everything a guy could ever want in a bull. Width, mass, age, etc. I’ll let Steve fill you in on his hunt details and share any pics should he decide to. He also managed a grand scrub bull late the same day. He knows his 500NE and can shoot it extremely well. My chance came the next day. We spotted this bull after turning a few down already. One look and George said we shouldn’t pass this one up. Conditions were perfect too. The bull had not seen or heard us. The wind was blowing steady and at a decent clip so the noise level was up from the grass and leaves. A long down wind approach and the bull fed right into our laps. At 15yds and comfortably on the sticks, I buried the bead into his shoulder and squeezed the front trigger on the Osborne. Perfect shot. Second barrel hits him square as well. He runs about 5yrds and does a 180 and stands, I reload, and put two more rounds into his opposite shoulder. He goes down. A perfect hunt in my book! I cannot be any happier with my bull. He has everything I had hoped for and the hunt itself was picture perfect. With buddies, double in hand, hunting big bulls. I felt blessed. Cal, Rob and Mike also all scored on some great bulls as well. I will let them tell their tales. With our trophy bulls in the salt, Steve and I managed a couple of days of management buffalo shooting with Steve taking a good management bull and I took an old cow. We also did our part in thinning the feral donkey herd by a few old jacks. Hunting these guys with open sight double rifles was good fun and sport. I learned that a 500NE will shoot very accurately and further than you think if you have proper trigger control and can manage the recoil! We also checked out numerous Aboriginal sites on the property. Everywhere there was a bluff on a hillside, there were paintings on the sides of the cliffs. It was really special seeing these ancient sites. Certainly makes you give pause and think about those who have tread long before you. The bird life in this part of Australia was unreal. It has to be seen to be believed. Several varieties of Cockatoos, more than a few different parrots and parakeets, and colorful song birds. The symphony each morning at day break was great. Those birds can belt out a tune! Mike took some great bird pics around camp. Our last day we spent trying our luck for barramundi in the river. A couple of hook ups and loses was all we got from the barra. We did manage to catch a lot of big bream though, which we had for dinner that night. Good eats! We also had a bit of a shoot too where we were able to shoots Rob’s BEAUTIFUL Bland single shot 4 bore made in 1887. What an example of fine English workmanship. That had to be the most beautiful rifle I have had the chance to shoot. A dandy. Cal’s Wilkes in 600NE with full loads was a beast!! All in all, I had a fantastic time. It went by much too fast. I am already looking forward to a return trip! | ||
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Congrats on a great hunt! Looking forward to the other guys reports as well. | |||
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Scott: Excellent report and well said. I will go with you again in a minute and am working on some blokes I know who are also interested now that they have seen the success of all of us. I disagree with you in only two areas. The gun permits and flying with QANTAS was not easy for me as I waited for several hours under the threat of not being able to board due to QANTAS regulations. If the manager had a bad day or didn't show up to work that day I would have lost the hunt. The Australian gov't paperwork is a mess to be sure. The customs agents both going in and upon departure were helpful and very polite but they didn't know the regulations themselves. They had to look at instruction forms and discuss the matter amongst themselves. Now that we know what to do it will be a breeze next time. AND, I'll look into flying Delta. My second disagreement you is the Noodlehouse. It was OK, but McDonalds suits my taste if I can't get eat smoked salmon and caribou stick. I don't know how to post photos here but my write up of my bull and photos are on my website <calpappas.com> The .600 is a thrill to hunt with and I may retire my other doubles and become a one rifle man. I know my shots will be limited but a vintage .600 is about a good as it gets. The Woodleigh bullets did well. The front shot through the brisket disabled the bull. His nose was up so I could not take a brain shot. When he turned to run he was spitting lung blood and his left leg was not working. I closed in to 20 yards for a side shoulder shot but he turned to face me. His head dropped so I took the frontal brain shot. The 900-grain soft point (I don't think solids are needed for buffalo of any type) destroyed his brain pan, the entire back of his skull, and his upper spine. Rarely does an animal fall so quick. Except for the Noodlehouse and paperwork, it was a dream hunt!! (Noodlehouse really wasn't that bad--it just is not a quarter pounder with cheese! Let's do this again in 2014 and deposits in Dallas in 2014. Cal PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world! _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal I know you had a couple of close BS calls with Qantas. It was a bit of a mess. Next time should be a breeze now that we know how it goes. Zimbabwe customs it is not! A pain in the ass but not enough to deter me from going again. Email your pics & I will post them for you. | |||
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I have got to do this one day!!!!! | |||
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Here are a couple of pics that Cal sent me. Helluva bull, buddy! Cal's bull before he became intimately acquainted with Cal's 600NE. Cal had a little bitty splinter in his finger.. Since there was no McDonalds around to make him feel better, we took him to the Aborig clinic in the nearest village. Luckily for him, the in house Dr. was a double rifle nut.. | |||
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That was a very good write up Scott! I'll try to add some pics as well. Well, that didn't work. Here's the link to my photobucket album of the trip. http://s1256.photobucket.com/a...100/#!cpZZ7QQtppZZ20 NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Wowww !!! What a wonderful trip !!!! I was never excited about the australian experience but after seeing this thread I realized how wrong I was !! What a beatiful cattle station to go hunting !!! Thanks for sharing. Y | |||
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Great stuff guys. I am going in June 2014 and can't wait! Great photos too!!! Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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Gents: It is interesting to compare cape buffalo and the water buffalo in the Northern Territory. In my limited experience I truly feel the cape buffalo is very over rated. I mean look at the number of blokes who come here and tell stories of the charge! I doubt 2% are truthful. Kind of like the super hunters who shoot an elk or white tail within a fenced enclosure and come back with tall tales of the great hunt. Every cape I've seen has run away upon seeing or winding me. This is because they are hunted so much and so many lions prey on them. In Australia there are no predators and the hunting pressure is very light. Therefore, being the biggest game on the block, the old bulls walk to you, don't run away, and seem fearless. Don't get me wrong, they don't charge (I'm sure some do) but walk up out of curiosity and to make a stand on their property and protect their cows. That makes facing a big game animal all the more exciting. I also believe if the water buffalo was hunted to the extent of the cape and for as long as the cape has been hunted, there would be more instances of danger and the buff would eventually learn to run away. This was a great experience and I hope to do it again in 2014--maybe bring a group of my own as I've got some replies from viewers of my website. Cheers all, Cal Scott: Two issues. You wrote of the hunt well but 1) the "little bitty splinter" was a major infected wound of huge proportions and a lesser man could not have remained awake during the surgery to lance it. 2) Rob's rifle is the second most beautiful rifle you fired on the trip. LOL _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Nice report guys . Water buffalo are on my to-do list in the next 5 years or so. ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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Guys..Congratulations on your success. looks like a fun trip. | |||
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Wow! Looks like you guys had a fantastic hunt and a great time. DRSS | |||
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Thanks for a great write up Scott. I had a great time, hunted with great folks, and the guides, lodge, and food were excellent. I definitely want to go back! I took a few buff with the 4-bore, which was really fun. I was amazed at how thick and rubbery their skin was. A few balls passed through but a couple were under the skin on the far side on shoulder shots. Of two hit facing straight on one had the ball on the inside of the hind quarter and the other on the outside (2nd photo). Ball just breaking the skin As Scott said, I bet we saw 2-300 buffalo per day. It was really fun chasing after them. The cows and calfs would run at sight of you but the big bulls stood their ground or came over to chase you away. The first day alone we saw 6 bulls estimated to be mid to upper 90s. Apparently new bulls move into the area to stake a claim from the vast land to the north, so their are LOTS of good animals. Cal's buff with a .620" hole in the forehead Recovered 1500 grain balls. Despite a MV of over 1500fps they look fine! My favortie part of the hunt (aside from the shear number of animals we got to look over) was stalking and chasing them. I tried and failed to sneak up on some donkeys. They took off and I leaned against a tree for support and took a shot at the lead animal at about 100 yards. I led him too much. I took off in hot pursuit reloading on the run and after about 200 yards they stopped to look back. I dropped to my butt with elbows on my knees and dropped him at about 100. That was a blast! Lastly, here is Cal getting his finger inspected at the medical clinic. He refused to fess up to the nurse about where it had been. What he didn't know was that while he was inside getting treated his "buddies" were drawing straws for who would get his 600 and to shoot his paid for buffalo if he didn't pull through. What are friends for? Rob DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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Note that the gent on Cals right is an ER Doctor that Cal brought along with him form the states but he refused to let him pluck that splinter w/o good pain killers. It took 4 holding him down! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Cruel bastards all of you. Nearly lost a finger due to me taking a viper bite to protect you guys and this is the thanks I get. Next hunt I'll take an SKS and you all can fight over it. The nurse is holding a flashlight as my doc (Greg) said I needed a colonoscopy (?) and a prostate exam. The proper medical equipment was not at this small clinic so they were going to use Rob's 4-bore barrel rather than the dreaded Silver Stallion. 2014? Let's do it again! Cal PS. Rob: love the photo of your balls. _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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You know if I had a nickel for every time someone told me that I'd go buffalo hunting every year! Alas, my single 4-bore only holds half as many balls as your 4-DR, but at least they're (slightly) bigger. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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Well done gentlemen... a lot of beef on the ground! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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I feel your pain, Cal ! I had a bad cold one time in Namibia and the German doctor who owned the property suggested first that I had Ebola ... and then said that I needed a catheter ... | |||
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Scotty: Great trip; congrats. Makes me wish I taken you up on your offer, but Jun is a bad month for MsAZW as her company's fiscal year ends. We head over in three weeks. If you guys have room in 2014 I can always leave her behind... | |||
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Nicely done guys. Congratulations and welcome home. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Thanks guys.. I am going to try my best to pull off a '14 hunt for sure. May try to convince George to organize Banteng up on the pennisula somewhere. But an AK brown bear hunt is my 1st priority for 2014. I am sure I can convince the wife that both hunts need to be done! I will download and post some of Mike's pics from the trip ASAP. | |||
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Some of the bird life in this part of Aussie: Kookaburra Cockatoo Galah (Rose breasted Cockatoo) A couple of up and comer scrub bulls.. George in the middle of recoil with the four bore! The thing almost took him out of his shirt! Fresh water croc. He didn't appreciate us fishing his creek.. Some more buffalo.. Mike's buffalo and his scrub bull. Some more fantastic artwork.. A helluva big and nice chunk of the beautiful Northern Territory! | |||
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Thanks for posting those up for me Scott! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Looks like Cal's been over-using that middle finger again :-) But then again, he was with Brooksy....who can blame him! | |||
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Some great animal shots in that lot. You've gotta love the Buffalo the way they look at you. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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The way they look down their noses at you it's almost like you owe them money and haven't made an attempt to pay it off! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Same for you 'bubba'! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Mike: They look at you, yes. Not like one owes them money, but more like my ex (one of 'em, anyway) and her lesbian lawyer. You saw her in Jurassic Park--the bitchasaurus. Cheers, all, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Beautiful thread, thanks for sharing with us. Mike, wish you'd told me about this thread when you send those notes and some of your pictures. I've always wanted to make "this type" of hunt and for these bulls. With so many bulls, were you limited to how many you shot? Or was there a big charge for killing them? I'd like to know as in a couple yrs it's likely I could make such a trip too. Again, thanks much for sharing with all of us. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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George: Good day. The hunt was 7000$ all inclusive for one trophy bull and 5 days. An additional trophy was 3000$. Management hunts for non-trophy bulls and cull animals would be less money, of course. 1x1 individual hunts are more, I'm sure, but don't know the exact figure. I will submit an article on the hunt to Dangerous Game Hunting magazine next week for their fall issue with all the details--both ups and downs. If you make the trip, you will surely enjoy it. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Congratulations gentlemen on a great time. It's good to see you got to experience a bit of Australian bush and do some shooting. | |||
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Very nice hunt guys. Looks like a good time was had by all. | |||
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Bingo. Over rated and over priced. You obviously know your stuff and haven't been drawn in by the marketing chest beaters. | |||
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good to see you enjoyed our turf, it really is a great place to hunt in, i go every year and will do till i can no more. those buff are a good worthy animal to hunt, and the fishing is always good, more so in the warmer months. well done to all, great read. what no wby's thought you blokes were weatherby mad, or is it just us australian's............. | |||
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Code4: Thanks for the vote of confidence. I did get a few emails telling me I was full of shit--of charges taking place when the cape first sees or winds the hunter and the old stories of how the cape will circle back and hunt the hunter. Buffalo are just cattle to me. Yes, they can be dangerous. So can lightning. But I still walk in the rain. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Guys, no doubt alot of fun had by all - a huge congrats! I would love to see a video of the .600NE on the buffalo of Australia, it sounds cool. | |||
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Bingo. Over rated and over priced. You obviously know your stuff and haven't been drawn in by the marketing chest beaters.[/QUOTE] It would be best to try it before making such remarks. However, I wish it was a little more affordable. | |||
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No worrys Cal. What I liked about your post is that you obviously hunt with your eyes open first, then your wallet. You have an accute understanding of animal behaviour based on observation. If you want to believe buffalo are inherantly dangerous then good luck to you. Naive populations are curious, not dangerous. 'Shot up' populations are the hardest to hunt. Ignore the naysayers. They are either consumers or have a financial interest in 'the industry'. | |||
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Hey, well-done, fellows! Next time we'll catch-up, hopefully. Cheers, Ben | |||
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