Guys,

This is a VERY SHORT NOTICE HUNT

We have a bear that has come onto the baits that is extremely high Gold medal quality. Due to the season finishing in the next week or so we are offering this hunt at about half normal price for such a bear.

The outfitter tells me that we are looking at the type of bear they shoot once every 2-3 years.

Details below, and if you want this opportunity the best bet would be to call me on my cell phone below or drop me an email with a number I can call you on to discuss the details.

It is scheduled as a 4-5 day hunt but expectations of success are high.

I would like to stress this is a free range bear.

Hunt: Romanian Brown Bear
Dates: Immediately
Outfitter: Athina Sporting
Arrival & Departure Point: Cluj Napoca Airport
3 Day/4 Night Price: USD 11,500


Athina Sporting Contact Details

Address:
Athina Sporting
1st Floor, 106-108 High St
West Wickham
Kent
England
BR4 0ND

Email: Info@AthinaSporting.com or Kiri@AthinaSporting.com

Telephone: 0044 (0) 20 8289 3322
Cell: 0044 7930 53 6386

How are the bears measured? What is a gold medal bear. Do you weigh them, skull size?

From what I understand the Bears are measured in CIC points for medal qualification which is skull size predominantly.

In terms of height we are looking at about a 9ft bear.

I will get more clarification tomorrow and post a more informed answer.

K

Hi Kiri

9 ft. Romanian Bear, this is a "once in a lifetime" trophy, describe a little more.

What measures the Bear from nose to tail before the skin pulled off.

Hi Allan,

I hope all is good with you mate.

I am awaiting the exact measuring formula on the bear which I should have today, but in the meantime I have been told that we are talking about a bear that when measured nose to tail, with is hide on will be about 9ft-10ft in length.

This is a rather sudden hunt as the bear in question came to the bait system that was being run for the general hunt and there is no more hunters in at present due to it being the last week of the season. It's a great opportunity for anyone that wants a chance at getting a big European Brown Bear.

Failure to get the bear will result in a refund of USD$9,500.

The only items you will have to pay for on location is your bar bill.

Rgds,
K

This has now gone. I hope to have a picture of the bear soon.
K

Kiri you always have great offers.

I am going to start paying greater attention to this for 2016.

We try mate!!

We will hunt together soon I'm sure.

K

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Hi Allan,

I hope all is good with you mate.

I am awaiting the exact measuring formula on the bear which I should have today, but in the meantime I have been told that we are talking about a bear that when measured nose to tail, with is hide on will be about 9ft-10ft in length.

This is a rather sudden hunt as the bear in question came to the bait system that was being run for the general hunt and there is no more hunters in at present due to it being the last week of the season. It's a great opportunity for anyone that wants a chance at getting a big European Brown Bear.

Failure to get the bear will result in a refund of USD$9,500.

The only items you will have to pay for on location is your bar bill.

Rgds,
K

You do realize that is the size of a large Kodiak brown bear?

Yes, I understand that is the case. However I think bears of this size in Europe are exceptional. I tried to get out there myself but time was short so sadly I couldn't get my schedule cleared fast enough.

K

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
How are the bears measured? What is a gold medal bear. Do you weigh them, skull size?

No , i dont think you pay by the skull size.
They measure the skin ! And they are good doing that.....

You will find different outfits charge different ways. I believe Skull size is part of the official measurement criteria but I have never heard of a bear being priced in this way.

The bear hunts we have available (as with most of our hunts where possible) are charged at a flat rate. Of course there are hunts you cannot avoid the sliding scale and where possible I use it to give hunters with less interest in huge trophies, to opportunity to experience a hunt at a more affordable price.

K

As I recall this has come up before and I think the measurement is taken around the bear just behind the front legs.

Seems to be a strange way to do it but it is quick and easy for sure while a measure of the skull would change over time as it drys which is the AMerican Boone & Crockett system for bears is done after a specified length of time.

With the European systerm linking the cost of the hunt to the of the trophy the size would need to be determined before the hunter can leave.

this is the CIC scoring criteria .
....a gold medal you can easy find in Romania ...we have the biggest density of brown bear.

for skhin :



for skull

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
How are the bears measured? What is a gold medal bear. Do you weigh them, skull size?

a gold medal bear is a bear over 300 cic points ....measurements of the skin...

Guys, although this hunt is now gone, the ear in question was approaching 600 CIC points.

I tried to get out and hunt it myself but schedules and season closing a were against us.

IIRC the world record european brown bear is 650 ish points.

K

Pictures ?

Sadly as I mentioned I didn't get to go on the hunt myself. I believe the bear was taken by another hunter but I currently have no images or the authority to post them if they come up.

I'm working on it but I don't think they will be brought to light to be honest.

K

You should be aware that the CIC skinn measurement is really strange and rotten system. Almost every bear that are shoot is a gold medal. A gold medal bear measured on the skin will not reach bronze medal on the skull. CIC should really take this skin measuring away, it only confuses the hunters. Some comparison between moose trophies and bear skins cut and pasted from my hunt report about driven brown bear in Romania:

"As you see on the offer there is a breaking point for higher trophy fee when the bear reaches 350 CIC points for the skin. The limit for gold medal is 300 CIC points. This was examined by us before we left and we all thought that there is no reason for worries about high trophy fees, a gold medal is a big animal and 50 points over the gold medal level should be a humongous animal. When we got the points for the animals shoot we were very surprised. Out of six killed bears, every bear was a gold medal and 5 were over 350 points! This was very strange because 3 of the 6 shot bears were females. Could this really be true? And yes, sorry to say it is true. We were 10 hunters on this hunt and on the lunch the last day of hunting we did a little survey. Together we have shot about 700 moose (yes we do shoot enormous amounts of moose in Sweden) and I asked my fellow hunter how many gold medal moose they have shot. The answer was that no one has killed a gold medal moose. 2 silver and 4 bronze medals was the outcome of 700 killed moose! When it comes to the CIC measuring of brown bear skins there is something rotten in the system! The only possible explanation is that when a brown bear cub sucks the last milk out of its mother the skin he/she carries is a bronze medal. So as an advice, if you are going on a brown bear hunt when the trophy fee is depending on CIC measuring on the skin be ready for the fact that almost every animal you see is a gold medal!"

this is a bear around 330 CIC points





that's me in the picture ( 180 cm and about 80kg)

this is a bear over 500 CIC points

I will be here soon with more details ...

it's not a problem of the system of scoring - bear am wild boar in Romania are big ....and the scoring system is built as "AN INTERNATIONAL SCORING SYSTEM " international agreed
Romania has also the biggest trophy of brown bear ever took !!!

For example in Germany a 80 kg wild boar is a big boar ....in Romania 80 Kg wild boar reach in the 2-3 year .... Here the boar can reach 300 kg !!!



was 250 kg


...also me in the pictures


around 300 kg

This is ROMANIA ....is well known for his trophy ...

......and the scoring sistem , again , is international established since .....read bellow :

That's quite the taxidermy job in the last bear photo...are those bears really mounted standing on tippy-toe?

I think I see why the guy wanted his identity concealed!

...but the boars are magnificent!

THIS IS ABOUT CIC :

International Council for Game and Wildlife Conservation
Conseil International de la Chasse et de la Conservation du Gibier
Internationaler Jagdrat zur Erhaltung des Wildes
Consejo Internacional de la Caza y de la Conservación de la Fauna

Introduction
At the end of the nineteenth century the first book about game trophies was published in England:
“Records of Big Game”, by ROWLAND WARD, the seventeenth edition of which, devoted
entirely to African game, was recently published.
The instructions for the taking of measurements were simple, confining themselves to the length
span and circumference of the longest horns, antlers or tusks, as well as the length of the pelts of
the larger predatory animals.
In 1910, in connection with the first International Hunting Exhibition, work was begun for the first
time on a uniform measurement and valuation formula, whose different factors still receive
consideration today.
The second International Hunting Exhibition followed in 1930 in Leipzig. In connection with this,
the names of Graf MERAN, NADLER, SIMAN, DIK as well as BIEGER and BUBESKA are well
known to all hunters. The so-called NADLER formula was the basis of the measurement of
trophies up to the hunting exhibition of 1937 in Berlin.
In the U.S.A. the first edition of the book “Records of North American Big Game” was produced in
1932. This system was expanded by CLARK in 1935 and improved by FITZ in 1939.
A commission of the “Boone and Crocket Club” used it as a basis and developed a mathematically
exact system in 1949, which was published in 1952 and remains unchanged and valid for the
trophies of North America up to the present day. This system has been adopted for many new
formulae in this book.
It was a task of the CIC in Europe to improve the valuation and formula system, particularly for
European game trophies. This took place in Warsaw in 1934 in connection with a hunting
exhibition, and for the fist time, a valuation and measurement system of the CIC was put into
practise.
Some improvements to the formulae occurred in 1937 in Prague, as well as for the third
International Hunting Exhibition in Berlin in 1937. The so-called “Madrid Formula” was
established in connection with a general assembly of the CIC in Madrid in 1952 and from then on
was used for all typical European and African game species.
Further revisions took place in 1954 for the fourth International Hunting Exhibition in Dusseldorf
and in 1955 at a CIC general assembly in Copenhagen.
From then on a working group: “Trophy valuation in the CIC”, was active under the direction of
Mr. G. KENNETH WHITEHEAD, until the basis for a complete international system could be
presented at the fifth International Hunting Exhibition in Budapest in 1971. However, it took until
November 1977 for the last questions, objections and suggestions to be incorporated into a unified
system. The result is this trilingual book.
G. KENNETH WHITEHEAD is the author of all the new formulae for African and Asian game.
The CIC offers very special thanks to him for his laborious and difficult task. Similarly, the CIC
thanks Mr. W. TRENSE who is responsible for the overall planning and execution of the studies in
this book.
Particular thanks are due to Herr. Dr. E. UECKERMANN who, as Chairman of the Working
Group, formulated the text for the German part of the formulae for European game. This text was
subsequently used as the basis for translation into English and French.
Thanks are also extended to Prof. em. FRITZ NÜSSLEIN and VELJKO VARICAK, members of
the above mentioned Group, as well as A. J. HETTIER DE BOISLAMBERT for his work on the
French manuscript.
Special thanks are offered to the artist Miss HELEN BACKHOUSE for her drawing of the
trophies: to the translators Miss DOROTHY JACKSON (English): Mrs. ROSE-MARIE CZAP
(French) and to Frau ANNEMARIE REIS (German) as well as to Mrs. DOROTHEE ASCHOFF
who has been responsible for incorporating the corrections into the text.
The CIC also thanks the “Boone and Crockett Club and the National Rifle Association of America”
for permission to use their formula in this book.

UH,

Yes, Romania have very big Brown bears. No doubt about that. But the CIC trophy scoring system for the skins are rotten. A bear with a 300 point (gold) CIC skinn will not reach a bronze medal for the skull. If someone is about to hunt a brown bear in an outfit that use a sliding scale for trophy fees based on CIC skin points they should be aware of the fact that a 300 point (gold) is a small bear. A bear that is above 500 points is obviously a very big one. The thing I oppose is that every adult bear that are shoot is a gold medal on the skin. If you compare that to moose and deer trophies I think you get my point.

To clarify, the brown bear is a species with a very large sexual dimorphism. Males grow almost twice the size of females. Even though, a young female can be a gold medal when you measure the skin by this rotten CIC system. Other trophy measure system measure the skull (and CIC do this as well) and then it is extremely seldom a female will reach a medal. If the CIC skin measure system will have any creditability at all, a bear with a gold medal skin should have a gold medal skull. As of now with CIC a bear with a gold medal skin is not even close to having a bronze medal skull...

i guess when the statement of 9 to 10 foot bears taken in Romania and the pictures supplied has nothing bigger then a good black bear I would have to say there is a little exaggeration of potential size expectations.
My question is does the outfitter know how much 10 feet is?

CH,

I don't think you should compare the brown bears in Romania with black bears in America. This is the same species as your grizzly and the size is as big or bigger than the grizzly (outside Kodiak or salmon river areas). My only point here is the totally rotten system of CIC skin measure. When the majority of shot females and very young males get "gold" medals even though the skulls are not close to reach bronze you know it is something wrong with the system. If you look in my hunting report about driven brown bear in Romania you will se that all six bears that we shot was gold medals. This include 3 females, and not old ones...

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
i guess when the statement of 9 to 10 foot bears taken in Romania and the pictures supplied has nothing bigger then a good black bear I would have to say there is a little exaggeration of potential size expectations.
My question is does the outfitter know how much 10 feet is?

Remember, these are metric feet.

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:
To clarify, the brown bear is a species with a very large sexual dimorphism. Males grow almost twice the size of females. Even though, a young female can be a gold medal when you measure the skin by this rotten CIC system. Other trophy measure system measure the skull (and CIC do this as well) and then it is extremely seldom a female will reach a medal. If the CIC skin measure system will have any creditability at all, a bear with a gold medal skin should have a gold medal skull. As of now with CIC a bear with a gold medal skin is not even close to having a bronze medal skull...

are you telling behind the words that a skin can be strechted too lol .... the skull score is defenitely better but the sellers will make less money thus skin measurments....

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:
To clarify, the brown bear is a species with a very large sexual dimorphism. Males grow almost twice the size of females. Even though, a young female can be a gold medal when you measure the skin by this rotten CIC system. Other trophy measure system measure the skull (and CIC do this as well) and then it is extremely seldom a female will reach a medal. If the CIC skin measure system will have any creditability at all, a bear with a gold medal skin should have a gold medal skull. As of now with CIC a bear with a gold medal skin is not even close to having a bronze medal skull...

are you telling behind the words that a skin can be strechted too lol .... the skull score is defenitely better but the sellers will make less money thus skin measurments....

No, sorry to say, the skin does not need to be stretched. It is just a rotten trophy measure system. But yes, outfitters will use this for sliding trophy fees. Sliding trophy fees is quite normal here in Europe, but this system is corrupt. I would not argue against this if you use the CIC measure system for brown bear skulls, that is correct. A gold medal CIC brown bear skull is a very big animal, a gold medal (300 points) CIC brown bear skin is a juvenile animal.

I modified the picture because I do not have his accept to post it ....but I have the pictures

Firs of all I want to point out that this is a normal debate ...
I will post some scans from a book with the largest trophy in Europe for Brown bear ....
you will see the difference of trophies around Europe and you will understand why the 300 CIC points limit is considered a gold trophy ....and also you will see what means 300CIC points in Romania

It's not a very recent book but you will get the idea ...






Here you have the biggest CIC scoring on the different countries for bear skin ...so for example in BULGARIA the 375 CIC was the biggest EVER took ( ...at the date of this book )


and now you will see the first 10 in Romania :



Now you will understand that this CIC scoring was made to be an international measurement system
Of course that a 300 CIC points bear in Romania is a medium bear .

...anyway the offer posted here ( see my offer ) are related to CIC points not to "gold / silver or bronze " trophies , so when you come in Romania to hunt a bear and you want an important trophy you must now at least how it looks a 500 CIC points bear ...

...this is around 500 CIC point bear....just for the record

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
That's quite the taxidermy job in the last bear photo...are those bears really mounted standing on tippy-toe?

I think I see why the guy wanted his identity concealed!

...but the boars are magnificent!

Thank you ....there are nice trophies

UH,

I do not argue that Romania have very big bear, they do have monster bears.

The thing is that the skin of a 300 CIC bear is a very small bear, even compared to the rest of the species distribution area. Other countries use the skull to measure bear trophies. And CIC do as well use the skull to measure bear trophies. And it is here were it is very clear that you as a client never should accept the CIC skin measurement as a base for a sliding trophy fee. A bear with a gold medal CIC skin (300) do not reach a CIC bronze medal skull. I find it very interesting that CIC can have such a system. My only point is that you as a presumptive client should know about this when you are about to buy a hunt from a outfitter. If the sliding trophy fee is based on CIC skin measurement you should know that a gold medal is a small bear. If the outfitter use the CIC skull measurement for the sliding trophy fee you can rest assure that a gold medal is indeed a big animal. A gold 300 CIC skin is a very small brown bear regardless were in the world you shoot it.

Ahlen ,

You tell me about the gold trophy ....but as I told you the offer are made like so :

TROPHY PRICES FOR ALL HUNTING SEASONS
Bear trophy till 300 CIC points included 3900 Euro
Bear trophy above 301 to 400 CIC points 5800 Euro
After 401 CIC points 5800+50 Euro/point

even from the offer you will understand that 300 is a small bear ...and normally bear must be hunted after 400 - 450 CIC points ....that's a bears

now you have to agree that when you have an offer like this has no relation with gold medal or silver ...and also you have to agree that a 300 cic points bear is the FIRST STEEP of the offer
So is correct to make a relation between CIC scoring and price ....what you have to know that is how big it is a 300 cic points bear - that is a small bear !!!
For example in are , when I stay in the stand with a client I always advise him about a bear if it is small medium or big ...this is the job of the outfitter .


http://forums.accuratereloadin...401022902#7401022902

UH,

Now we completely agree!

A gold medal (measured on skin as CIC) is a small bear. Not many hunters understand this. On all other species that we measure trophies on in Europe a gold medal is a very big animal. My only point is that hunters should know that a CIC gold medal bear skin is a small bear.

UH

Can you tell what the length and width of the largest Bears ?

You have experience in measuring before and after the skin is removed and what is the difference ?

I checked with the Swedish representative in CIC. This CIC skin measurement is highly debated in CIC and is hopefully on its way out. Something is dead wrong when all shot bears are gold medals. The skull measurement is more representative, a gold medal brown bear should be a big animal.

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:
UH,

Now we completely agree!

A gold medal (measured on skin as CIC) is a small bear. Not many hunters understand this. On all other species that we measure trophies on in Europe a gold medal is a very big animal. My only point is that hunters should know that a CIC gold medal bear skin is a small bear.

....it's a small bear for Romania , for Bulgaria ...375 CIC was the biggest