With the economy of the world in such poor condition hunts are being canceled every day not to mention sickness and business commitments resulting in hunts being canceled daily with deposits lost. Whatever happened to the practice of offering these hunts minus the original lost deposit?

The economy is coming out of the dumps. You can't buy the S&P for 700 anymore and you probably won't get a lion hunt for 25K either.

On the other hand, there is a fire sale on other assets in this country. I am scooping up all the real estate I can. You buy two rental properties in Phoenix now for cash and you can go on a 21 day every third year forever. Buy six and you can go every year. What is not to like about that?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
The economy is coming out of the dumps. You can't buy the S&P for 700 anymore and you probably won't get a lion hunt for 25K either.

On the other hand, there is a fire sale on other assets in this country. I am scooping up all the real estate I can. You buy two rental properties in Phoenix now for cash and you can go on a 21 day every third year forever. Buy six and you can go every year. What is not to like about that?

Lets assume the buyer is 60 years old and has some spare cash to buy the rentals. Safari every third year, not forever, but until his health goes in the can or he dies. Maybe three safaris? Might be better to go every year and exhaust all your assets and leave nothing to the children. They can and should take care of themselves.

Amen!!!! my idea of perfect is to spend my last dollar and draw my last breath at the same time. children should be able to make their own way in the world and not depend on their parents to leave them fat and sassy.

Guys,

You will either die with a lot of money in the bank or die broke having been broke for a long time. I am pretty good with financial analysis and that is what my models tell me.

Getting old is a hell of a lot easier if your net worth goes up every year instead of down.

But it does bring up another retirement issue: health. If you don't have it, doesn't matter what else you have.

At those kind of returns on rental properties how sure are you that the renters will be 1] available and 2] able to pay at that level?
What $ are you placing on a 21 day hunt? and how much $ are you putting into each rental on purchase? So I can understand % return on capital.
Very interested as would like to get some funds offshore from this socialist regime here in Australia.

Another: What the hell does buying rentals have to do with outfitters keeping 50% deposits and still offering that same hunt for full rate?
By the way I own 12 rental properties/72 units in the northeast as I type this at age 55. Unless you have the turn over of leasees you'll be hard presses to reinvest enough of your income from your units to have decent deductions from the tax man.Property values here haven't rebounded at the rate of the current 30 yr. fixed vs. the median income. I'll assume the SE is much like the NE right now with renters staying put because of low job market. I've had to reinvested profits from the rentals back into the buildings at record rates this year to beat the tax man at his game.

Lots of outfitters just like most other business owners...it's called greed. Pocket the deposits and try to sell the hunt for full rates. Greed is the new breed!

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Lots of outfitters just like most other business owners...it's called greed. Pocket the deposits and try to sell the hunt for full rates. Greed is the new breed!

And it is your business how that the hunt was booked before? A hunt isnt a virgin fer Christs sake. How are the operators greedy if they dont give YOU a bargain. It wasnt your deposit.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

2th doc If an appointment opens up early at the doctors office does the new person who takes the timeslot get a discount- If it works that way where you are please tell my Docs about it.

SSR

I don't understand why people can't have the courtesy of posting their desires or complaints where they belong, not in the "Outfitters-Offered and Discounted Hunts" forum. This thread throws somebodies "hunt for sale" ad off the front page.

quote:

I don't understand why people can't have the courtesy of posting their desires or complaints where they belong, not in the "Outfitters-Offered and Discounted Hunts" forum. This thread throws somebodies "hunt for sale" ad off the front page.

Just like your uncalled for post, along with mine!

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I don't understand why people can't have the courtesy of posting their desires or complaints where they belong, not in the "Outfitters-Offered and Discounted Hunts" forum. This thread throws somebodies "hunt for sale" ad off the front page.

Originally I did post it in this forum then moderator George S. moved it to the misc. forum an notified me. I then rewrote the post and placed it in the Africa Hunting forum and it was moved back here again...go figure
CrossL: I offer walk in emergency and planned visits. The girls at the desk are instructed to place the walk ins in last minute cancelled visits whenever possible when not I have volumes of uninsured patients whom I give the free slot to on first come first served, "standby" at no cost or pay what you can rates...as do most care givers.

Aussie/2th Doc,

In short, housing in Phoenix is on its ass. Property has fallen 50%, sometimes more. Tons of people have poor credit and cannot buy.

Without going into details, I buy houses and rent them out at a 10% return, giving the renters various options to buy/profit sharing arrangements. They take care of everything. A realtor takes my prospective customers around and earn 3% commission when I buy the house.

So if you have a portfolio of $1 mill you get 100K in profit. Depreciation cuts the profit some but not the cash flow. The use of leverage cranks this up quite a bit more, but that is obviously dangerous.

I have some pretty neat ways of organizing all of this but I would rather not blab them all over. Aussie, shoot me a PM if you want more details.

My point with all of this is that when the economy tanks, there is a fire sale on all kinds of assets. I did go on a 21 day in 09, but I spent a lot more money buying distressed assets.

Are we selling houses, land and apartments on this forum now
Can we start over
WOW talk about off track
Larry

Larry,

Sorry I ruined your day. Will try harder next time not to pee on your parade.

I'm sorry I ever started this thread..how do I delety it??????????

In cases where quota is the limiting factor, operators just put the quota back into the hopper for sale. Toward the end of the season, if it looks like the quota will not sell, the "cancellation" and "leftover" offers materialize. In other words, a hunt cancelled in June may be offered at a discount in Sept.

If camp availability is the constraint (and that's not the usual situation), then a cancellation may be offered immediately at a discount.

Either way, it's entirely up to the operator to decide what he wants to do in a cancellation situation. Bear in mind, the hunter puts down a rather sizable deposit when booking a hunt so he is going to do everything in his power to show up.

“Cancellation Hunts / where are they?”
Here is one:

A client of mine is forced to postpone his trip because his anti-hunting boss cancelled his vacation after hearing he was taking leave to go on safari . We’re in the process of working something out to arrange alternative dates for him but in the meanwhile the dates he originally booked are available to interested parties at reduced rates:

Dates: May 9 thru 17 2011

Daily Rates (1X1):

Arrival Day - $150
7 Hunting Days - $250p/d - $1,750
Departure Day – FOC
Total - $1,900 (tax incl.)

Whoever books this will be saving $1,400 in Daily Rates + some of the TF’s are offered at reduced prices!

Trophy Fees:

Eland - $2,000
Kudu - $1,900
Impala - $300
Warthog – $300
Red Hartebeest - $1,200
Blue Wildebeest - $850
Gemsbok - $1,200
Zebra - $1,200

The hunt will be conducted from a farmhouse-style lodge in the Swartwater area near the Limpopo River in Limpopo Province of South Africa. Accommodations comprise of comfortable private bedrooms with bathrooms en suite. Accommodation available for up to 4 guests. We hunt directly from camp on 5,000 acres of fenced hunting land and have another 20,000 acres at our disposal in the immediate vicinity. The above species are available onsite. Other species available nearby upon request.

As usual Ground transportation, Accommodations, services of PH, Trackers, Skinners and Camp Staff as well as all meals, beverages and daily laundry service are included in the daily rates.

Please contact me for more info.

2th Doc
Firstly cancellation hunts are generally offered to previous clients and repeat clients.
Also, it is our practice to try and earn the client who has cancelled the hunt as much back on his original amount as possible. It is heartbreaking for a client to have to cancel a hunt , so losing his full deposit only compounds that feeling. In most cases, the client will ask us to sell the hunt on at a slightly lower price so that he can get MOST of his money back. In some cases we are able to sell it for full price in which case he would get all of his deposit back. Personally I dont beleive it would be right to resell a cancelled hunt at full price and then not give the original client his deposit back. In most cases , we are able to make some form of plan to refund most of not all of the deposit and ensure that the outfitter is also not out of pocket.

For the most part I was speaking of North America hunting in my original question where 50% deposits are nonrefundable as the norm.