Goodday,

Motsomi Safaris have 3 buffalos left on tag for 2011, details are as follows:
Dates: Apr - Oct 2011 (subject to availability)
Destination: Limpopo South Africa
PH: Owner himself Pieter Potgieter
Weapon: Rifle or Bow
Price: $13900 for a 9day safari, trophy fees,
dayfees and transport from JNB Int
Airport included, no hidden costs.


This hunt will take place next to Kruger National Park on aproxamitely 4000acres of beautiful African Busveld by means of tracking or if lucky spot and stalk.
Realistic size buff to expect would be 38" - 45"
There are some realy Big boys available.

Motsomi Safaris

Contact Pieter at:
215 317 6274 US Mobile (till 21 Feb 2011)
+2711 83 442 0578 SA Mobile
info@motsomi.com

I have hunted PG and Leopard with Pieter.
He runs a fine operation and is a great guy to hunt with. Going back in 2013 for another crack ( permit permitting ) at the spotted kitty.

This seems like a good price.

I was fortunate to get a great dugga boy with Motsomi in 2009. What a fantastic hunt. I'd recommend Pieter and Motsomi if you're looking for a cape buffalo hunt, other dangerous game or plains game.

This is a fantastic deal.

I have hunted plains game with Pieter in 2008 and 2012. I have just booked to return in 2012. I would expect this to be first class just like all of his hunts.

As a woman who wants to hunt cape buffalo, what is the lightest caliber I can use (less recoil)?

Ginny, a lot will depend upon your rifle and the load your shooting. A rifle that fits you properly, you hold correctly and a load that is effective yet not necessarily a heavy weigh bullet will recoil less. It will help you to wear a recoil pad such as those in a Sim's vest or one by Bob Allen. It will help quite a bit. All legal bore cartridges for Buffalo will have recoil, but you can defeat much of it.
Regards and welcome to AR,
David

Ginny, legally you have to us a .375 and what David said is true. As long as you take the shot standing recoil is not bad.
Pieter

David good answer.

Ginny- You can always have a muzzel break installed on your rifle and that helps tremendously with felt recoil. Increases noise but reduces felt recoil.

Thanks so much for the info. I think I can handle a 375, but will need to spend some time at the range. And I have to talk my husband into letting me take a buffalo.

Ginny

There's a lot more to (felt) recoil than calibre alone so don't be put off.

If you choose a rifle of the correct weight and stock design and maybe fit a mercury tube or tungsten bead recoil arrestor then you'll have absolutely no problem at all. (I would however recommend a mercury tube or tungsten bead recoil arrestor as a far better choice than a muzzle brake)

The Late Dr Kay Hiscocks for example was a real skinny little thing and used to weigh about as much as a wet dishcloth but she managed to shoot a 548 Lott without any problems at all.

Don't worry about convincing your husband about you shooting a buffalo or two..... just tell him you're gonna do it!

quote:

(I would however recommend a mercury tube or tungsten bead recoil arrestor as a far better choice than a muzzle brake)

They just add weight which obviously reduces the recoil but they are not even in the same sphere of effectiveness as a muzzle brake. There's no question brakes are loud, but there are plenty of plug in earplugs to control damage while practicing or sighting in.

A good recoil pad, and a shirt made with recoil pads built in will go a long ways to controlling recoil.

Start with slow and light bullets (reloads) and work up.

Depending on your stature, you might want to have the pitch on your stock adjusted a bit, so the recoil is more evenly distributed over a wider area and the toe doesn't "dig in".

quote:

Originally posted by Ginny:
Thanks so much for the info. I think I can handle a 375, but will need to spend some time at the range. And I have to talk my husband into letting me take a buffalo.

As an alternative to a muzzle brake, if you hand load or have someone who does, you can work up reduced loads in the 375 H&H.

A friend has a daughter hunting buffalo this summer and he was looking for "lighter loads" for practice and possibly hunting.

I loaded up some test loads with 250 grain swift softs, nominal velocity was 2250 fps to 2360 fps seemed to recoil like a 30-06, given the weight of the rifle, etc...accuracy was pretty good also....

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

(I would however recommend a mercury tube or tungsten bead recoil arrestor as a far better choice than a muzzle brake)

They just add weight which obviously reduces the recoil but they are not even in the same sphere of effectiveness as a muzzle brake. There's no question brakes are loud, but there are plenty of plug in earplugs to control damage while practicing or sighting in.

".

Hope you won't mind my correcting you there my friend. A lump of lead in the stock does as you say but a tungsten bead or mercury tube recoil arrestor works on the principle of Newton's laws of motion (3rd if I remember correctly) which prove that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.

Thus, the material in the recoil arrestor moves in the opposite direction of the recoiling rifle and absorbs some of the energy/felt recoil by doing so.

I wouldn't know how to measure it but I'd say that a good recoil arrestor will absorb something in the region of at least 50% of the felt recoil.

(IMO) a mercury tube or tungsten bead arrestor is considerably more effective than any muzzle brake I've ever used and of course, a lot kinder on the ears of not only the shooter but also everyone else in the vicinity.

I've shot several varieties hundreds if not thousands of rounds and they are weight. Period.

We'll have to agree to disagree in that case buddy.

I've been using them for donkey's years in my rifles and that experience plus the simple rules of physics prove to me that they work considerably better than lumps of lead in the stock or muzzle brakes.

The best example I experienced was when I had my .500 built. I shot it a few times without a mercury tube in it and it damn nearly ripped me in two. After the recoil arrestor was fitted it wasn't much worse than a 375 H&H.

However, I am convinced some gunsmiths don't fit them correctly. The proper way to do it is to angle the tube in the stock so the mercury runs uphill as the rifle recoils. If you fit them straight, they're nowhere near as effective.

http://www.physicsclassroom.co...s/newtlaws/u2l4a.cfm

http://physics.about.com/od/cl...a/lawsofmotion_4.htm

Steve,
Could you please explain the idea of having the tube fitted at an angle. I have one fitted, but not sure if it was fitted straight or at an angle.
Looking forward to your reply.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

I'm no Stephen Hawking and it's a long time since I was at school and/or studied physics but by installing it that way, the mass of mercury in the tube is forced to move uphill when the rifle is recoiling and because it takes more energy to move a mass uphill, it therefore absorbs more energy/recoil than one that lays horizontal to the ground when the rifle is held in the shooting position.

A tube mounted horizontally to the ground will work but not as well as one that's mounted at an angle....... I guess there's an optimal angle but have no idea what it would be.

Again, I'm going from memory but as I remember it, energy never just disappears, it just changes form and the more energy that's transferred to the mercury, the less energy in the felt recoil.

Hence, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.

The same law would apply to the weight of the rifle alone but of course, the movement of the mercury means you can have less felt recoil but still have a lighter firearm.

The downside of a recoil arrestor is that it has to be installed absolutely tightly by an expert and if there's any movement whatsoever between the tube itself in relation to the stock then the stock will very quickly crack or break.... I had a client a few years ago who arrived with a brand new and very expensive rifle that had been fitted with a mercury tube recoil arrestor by someone other than the maker..... we went to the range at the start of the safari and afterwards as we were driving back to camp, I looked at his rifle and saw what looked like a scratch on the wrist of the rifle....... I don't know why but it somehow looked wrong and and it really bothered me.

After a few minutes of puzzling over it, I picked his rifle up and said there's something wrong here...... I twisted the stock and a bloody great crack opened up. I reckon if he'd fired it in that condition, the whole stock would have (for want of a better word) shattered.

Fortunately, I had my .404 there, so he was able to use that instead.

Think you need to brush up on your physics mate. What force drives the mercury in the opposite direction to the recoiling rifle???

Matt,
That would be the force of inertia. Inertia is the same principle as you driving in a car and hitting a brick wall. The car stops but your body's inertia wants to still travel at the same speed the car was travelling before the collission.
I guess in a rifle's situation, it would just be the reverse. Remember that mercury is a very heavy metal, although in liquid form, still heavy.
With the tube being connected to the stock, and the stock moving in a certain direction at a certain fps because of the recoil, the mercury will opose that motion in the opposite direction, causing a reduction in actual recoil.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

Matt,

Marius (and I) have got it right.

A simple example of how it works could be found putting a ball on a flat (movable) surface and suddenly move that movable surface and you'll see the ball move in the opposite direction.

There's no end of examples of how it works and a Google search on Newton's laws of motion will explain it far better than I ever could.

Here's a good explanation of how it works: Newton's third law

By introducing the mercury tube into the equation, the movement of the mercury (preferably uphill) reduces some of the felt recoil. The greater the mass of mercury, the greater the reduction.

As Ian Dury wrote/sang. 'There ain't half been some clever bastards'

Sadly, I'm not one of them! but I do remember that part of my physics tuition.

I think you are interpreting Newtons Laws incorrectly and stuffing-up Pieters thread in the meantime!!

Sorry Pieter!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I think you are interpreting Newtons Laws incorrectly and stuffing-up Pieters thread in the meantime!!

Sorry Pieter!!

In what way wrong mate?

I don't see how it can be wrong. Newton's laws, esp the 3rd law explains the hows and whys of recoil and the recoil arrestors work and the only way they can work is the way the 3rd law explains it.

Yup, sorry about that Pieter.... still at least the thread is staying at the top!

Horse manure. First of all, even assuming your cocked up idea of the movement of the mercury is correct, do you honestly think that moving 5 ounces of mercury 3 inches or so is going to significantly affect the recoil on a 8 to 10 pound rifle. Give me a break.

If I'm wrong mate then so is Blaser rifles, some other firearms manufacturers, many thousands of shooters & gunsmiths around the world and of course Isaac Newton who proved the laws about 300 years ago..

From a personal point of view, I've shot both my 404 & my 500 (plus a fair number of previously owned rifles) without mercury tubes fitted and then after fitting and with identical loads and difference in felt recoil is immense.

I'd always be very interested in hearing other theories/explanations but I have to say that I reckon the Newton explanation is right.

Absolutely Newton is right, more weight equals less recoil.

Here's more links that might help:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_recoil.htm

http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/

http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/intro2.htm#top

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Horse manure. First of all, even assuming your cocked up idea of the movement of the mercury is correct, do you honestly think that moving 5 ounces of mercury 3 inches or so is going to significantly affect the recoil on a 8 to 10 pound rifle. Give me a break.

I would also just like to add what Steve is saying here:
I know that this is way off topic, but I feel everybody can learn something.
Remember that its not the weight of the mercury that opposes the recoil. The weight is a factor. Its the force that actually makes up the numbers in the whole "resistance". Force = Mass x Velocity
Therefor it would be incorrect to say that 5 ounces of mercury needs to combat an 8 pound rifle. A correct way of looking at it would be that 5 ounces of mercury multiplied by x fps. This in actual, turns that 5 ounces into maybe a pound of force moving in the oposite direction opposing the movement of the recoil.
It will be the same effect as jumping onto a scale. The velocity of your body multiplied with your mass creates a much larger force onto the scale, causing a spike of the reading, then returning to your normal weight.
Hope that this makes any sense.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

I don't think the mercury is really moving in the opposite direction; if anything it's trying to stay still. However as the rifle recoils it would APPEAR to be moving in the opposite direction. Or said another way it moves forward RELATIVE to the rest of the rifle (so Steve is right in a way).

Mercury would have effects via Newton's 1st law Inertia, and 3rd law Action and reaction.


AQs I think about it it would be neat to fit a mercury tube in a clear stock or a cut-away stock to settle this once and for all.

Wow!!! This all started out with Buffalo Hunts for sale and a lady asking about calibre and recoil, you guys are very knowledgeable and passionate about rifles.

By the way there is only 2 Buffs left.

quote:

Originally posted by Pieter Potgieter:
Wow!!! This all started out with Buffalo Hunts for sale and a lady asking about calibre and recoil, you guys are very knowledgeable and passionate about rifles.

By the way there is only 2 Buffs left.

Pieter "knowledgeable and passionate" is one description but 'petty and argumentative' may also apply since they are doing it in your post.

It appears that the elitist fatcat is once again wrong. As a long time lurker but very infrequent poster, his arrogance forces a comment.

Very nice offer Pieter, wish you the best with your hunts! BTT

quote:

Originally posted by cable68:
AQs I think about it it would be neat to fit a mercury tube in a clear stock or a cut-away stock to settle this once and for all.

Caleb,

If you want to see how it works, just do as I suggested earlier and take a pan (or a part full bottle of water laid flat) with a few inches of water in it, let it settle and then move it suddenly forward and you'll see the wave form and move in the opposite direction to the movement of the pan.

The three rules all work together but (as I understand it) the one that actually absorbs the recoil is the 3rd rule.

Steve, I'm with you in concept, just differeing in the fine points of the physics. The mercury (or water) is not moving (or minimally) in space, but in reference to the rifle (or bottle) it is moving in the opposite direction until it meets the edge of what's containing it.

Caleb,

The 'tidal wave' is proof of the liquid moving and (in this case) of the energy being moved from recoil to recoil reduction.

The recoil itself is only very momentary so the recoil arresting motion also only needs to be the same.

I guess we should be grateful we're just debating the laws of motion and not the theory of relativity!

quote:

Originally posted by Buddyboy:
It appears that the elitist fatcat is once again wrong. As a long time lurker but very infrequent poster, his arrogance forces a comment.

Very nice offer Pieter, wish you the best with your hunts! BTT

Which one of us is the elitist fatcat??

Yes - nice offer Pieter - I hope you sell them all!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Buddyboy:
It appears that the elitist fatcat is once again wrong. As a long time lurker but very infrequent poster, his arrogance forces a comment.

Very nice offer Pieter, wish you the best with your hunts! BTT

Which one of us is the elitist fatcat??

Yes - nice offer Pieter - I hope you sell them all!!

He's not referring to you; I'll give you a hint, check the spanish words for "fat" and "cat".

Si, si!!

This started as a great deal on a buff hunt and has turned into "I can top that". I would hope that we could get back to the hunt, that was offered.

quote:

Originally posted by stiv:
This started as a great deal on a buff hunt and has turned into "I can top that". I would hope that we could get back to the hunt, that was offered.

No shit I have seen 13 yr olds act better

SSR