While I'm okay with whatever he wants to do..........I'm not so sure that this outfitter needs the business from this........


.

Not sure of the status of this gents...but I am in for $400.
Let me know.
Best
Steve

I just emailed the outfitter. I will post his reply, if I receive it, as to why he would not refund a deposit in these circumstances.

Things are a little tight for me, however I'm in for $100.
Happy thanksgiving to all, what a special day to have found this thread.
I will make a special prayer and toast to you all with Thansgiving dinner with the family.
John

Forrest and Carolinasman,

Put me down for whatever is left. Just let me know and I'll write the check.

Is this the same outfitter that is offering a safari in this same forum? If so, I cannot believe he would not get on her to explain whay the deposit was not returned.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:
Is this the same outfitter that is offering a safari in this same forum? If so, I cannot believe he would not get on her to explain whay the deposit was not returned.

Jason, I'm not involved with the hunting industry in any way but I am a proprietor and these days I can't refund any non refundable deposits, it doesn't matter if its a single dollar.

We're aware of the clients circumstances and its terrible but we're not aware of the proprietors nor is it any of our business.

This internet thing is fun and very informative but it doesn't make us omnicient.

The day we hide behind some obscure legalese or regulatory minutiae stopping us from doing the right thing...we're lost.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Personally I have no interest in ever booking a hunt with Bushwack Safaris. Their insistence on keeping a deposit under these circumstances is unconscionable and shows them to be completely without honor or integrity.

John, if you'll send me a private message or email to the address in my profile I'll compensate you for any loss you sustain on this deal. The last thing you should be worrying about right now is dealing with an unscrupulous safari operator.

Godspeed and best of luck to you. You're in my prayers.

ForrestB, you are a Gentleman and a Scholar... hats of to you...

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
The day we hide behind some obscure legalese or regulatory minutiae stopping us from doing the right thing...we're lost.

Amen brother, amen.

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
The day we hide behind some obscure legalese or regulatory minutiae stopping us from doing the right thing...we're lost.

The client rolled the dice and didn't get trip insurance. Why is it the right thing for the outfitter to subsidize that decision once it has gone south?

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
The day we hide behind some obscure legalese or regulatory minutiae stopping us from doing the right thing...we're lost.

The client rolled the dice and didn't get trip insurance. Why is it the right thing for the outfitter to subsidize that decision once it has gone south?

I will tell you why: Because it's the right thing to do. Sure, by the letter of the so called contract legally, the Outfitter can and has got out of it.

However, there is a thing called common sense.

There are times when one of my customers has an issue (surely not as dire as the one we are discussing) and I am usually able to work with them. Often, I do not charge them (even though I could). It's called courtesy. It is definitely a word that is being forgotten in our society.

And, friends, there is a BIG difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law needs to be applied here.

I asked Bushwack for a detailed explanation in the other thread in a non offensive manner. Let's see if he replies.

I'm with you gents, and count me in for a hundred or two for the Carolinasman's expenses. When it is sorted out, email me. Better yet, since many "terminal" cases are not that, let's have all of the kind hearted folks here use their generosity and the money to help buy a good SA hunt for Carolinasman. Many of you gents here on AR are the best on God's green earth. My hat's off to you all.

I'm sure we can find a good hunt at a better price as to trophy fees.
Cal

Great stuff chaps.

Carolinasman you are welcome in my camp anytime and that is the least I can do.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
The day we hide behind some obscure legalese or regulatory minutiae stopping us from doing the right thing...we're lost.

The client rolled the dice and didn't get trip insurance. Why is it the right thing for the outfitter to subsidize that decision once it has gone south?

I will tell you why: Because it's the right thing to do.

We fundamentally disagree. Where is personal responsibility? People screw up and they expect others to make it right. I see this as no difference than bailing out people that lost money buying property and then asking the public to fund those bad decisions or asking people to fund poor decisions by those that are unwilling to work or to acquire skills needed to work. I think this behavior is a cancer.

That said, it's for every vendor to determine what is right for them in each situation.

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:


We fundamentally disagree. Where is personal responsibility? People screw up and they expect others to make it right. I see this as no difference than bailing out people that lost money buying property and then asking the public to fund those bad decisions or asking people to fund poor decisions by those that are unwilling to work or to acquire skills needed to work. I think this behavior is a cancer.

That said, it's for every vendor to determine what is right for them in each situation.

This guy equates personal responsibility with a guy getting terminal cancer. Amazing. No wonder O'Bama got a second term with idiots like this running around.

What money is the outfitter losing by refunding the deposit?

You can't compare it with real estate losses...

This thread and the comments on the thread in many ways represent the best and the worst that AR has to offer.

In my view the comments of bobgrow, Cal, Jason P and JG Raider sum it up, why refund the deposit, because it is the right thing to do, to heck with what the contract says.

quote:

We fundamentally disagree. Where is personal responsibility? People screw up and they expect others to make it right. I see this as no difference than bailing out people that lost money buying property and then asking the public to fund those bad decisions or asking people to fund poor decisions by those that are unwilling to work or to acquire skills needed to work. I think this behavior is a cancer.

Your comparison is ridiculous and your choice of words is pathetic.

Gents:
Above is my post with a few thoughts (I screw up every time I try to post a quote). A gent in SA will offer Carolinasman a hunt. I will post it here tomorrow (remember I'm on AK time) and between all of the generous offers to help this gent, Carolinasman can have a good hunt with no worry about expense. I'm also waiting for bushwack to reply to my question as his reasoning for not refunding a deposit. While the matter originally was a private one it is now a public one due to the posting here on AR.
I will chat with you all tomorrow and let's try to help out where we can. If bushwack make the choice not to reply, we will know what many of already suspect.
Cheers to all you fine folks that offered your assistance.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Above is my post with a few thoughts (I screw up every time I try to post a quote). A gent in SA will offer Carolinasman a hunt. I will post it here tomorrow (remember I'm on AK time) and between all of the generous offers to help this gent, Carolinasman can have a good hunt with no worry about expense. I'm also waiting for bushwack to reply to my question as his reasoning for not refunding a deposit. While the matter originally was a private one it is now a public one due to the posting here on AR.
I will chat with you all tomorrow and let's try to help out where we can. If bushwack make the choice not to reply, we will know what many of already suspect.
Cheers to all you fine folks that offered your assistance.
Cal

But he doesn't want to hunt, i offered the safari in the cancellation clause of his contract to be forwarded to him at a later stage, he want his deposit back...Cal, i didn't refused the hunt to him, i refused to pay back his deposit...so, why organizing other hunting safaris. Carolinasman have double standard now!!!

quote:

Quote from Bushleague:
But he doesn't want to hunt...

Carolinasman is in a hospital undergoing chemo for bladder cancer! You think he wouldn't rather be hunting...even with you?!
Your posts reveal more about your intelligence and character than you can possibly fathom.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Above is my post with a few thoughts (I screw up every time I try to post a quote). A gent in SA will offer Carolinasman a hunt. I will post it here tomorrow (remember I'm on AK time) and between all of the generous offers to help this gent, Carolinasman can have a good hunt with no worry about expense.
Cal

'Forrest Gump' - please read above...

Perhaps Patrick you could

quote:

Dream it...Discover it...Experience it...

your Compassion and Humanity to your fellow man?

Looks like the whole Texas is after me..."they say everything is bigger in Texas", now i can see why...

Isn't "bushwack" an Old Western name for ambush from behind? Jes askin?

quote:

Originally posted by Bushwack:
Looks like the whole Texas is after me..."they say everything is bigger in Texas", now i can see why...

You are absolutely right, bigger hearts and a bigger sense of decency and common sense.

Intelligence is realizing that when you are in a hole . . . stop digging. I must say you are a piece of work. A unique business and marketing model for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushwack:
Looks like the whole Texas is after me..."they say everything is bigger in Texas", now i can see why...

Bushwack,

From Tennessee you look like a complete and utter FOOL that is lacking in so many respects....

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by Bushwack:
Looks like the whole Texas is after me..."they say everything is bigger in Texas", now i can see why...

Bushwack,

From Tennessee you look like a complete and utter FOOL that is lacking in so many respects....

Same perspective from Wyoming.

Same from corrupt and bankrupt Illinois...

Sorry to say that here is a fellow South African who is ethically and morally bankrupt with the compassion of a mfezi.

bushwack:

I cant speak for my fellow hunters from Kentucky but all that have spoken to will take steps to avoid ever hunting with you. Count on it!!

Gents:
Bushwack has offered his explanation on his post. I understand both the explanation and the legality of the contract. I also understand Carolinasman not taking the hunt at a later date due to his medical condition and the possible outcome. That said, I personally would put the spirit of the law ahead of the law's letters and refunded the gent's money even if it caused a loss on my part. And others here, too, would do the same as evidenced by the generous offers made.

All the words have been said that need to be said so let's get down to business.

Below is a post from a gent in SA. All read it, and Carolinasman read it too, as when you are up and about (keep positive) we can make a hunt work for you.


Posted 05 December 2012 13:00
Hi Cal

I like your idea to buy the hunt for Carolinasman.
I would like to offer my services here as I think it is a worthy cause.
If you are interested then perhaps you could administer the funds etc and make this happen.
I would like to keep this going each year, so try and figure out a way to do it annually.

I have dates open in January and February if he wants to move on this now. If he has a wish list let me know what it is and we can switch things up to make it happen.

What I can offer is as follows.

7 Hunting Days in KZN

1) No day rate on the hunt
2) 2 days Bushpig over hounds at no charge
3) Caracal over hounds at no charge
4) Common Reedbuck trophy ram at no charge
5) Blesbuck Ram at no charge

If you can pull together about USD 3000
we can add the following at cost without day rate.

1) Nyala Bull
2) Impala Ram
3) Warthog
4) Bushbuck
5) 1 day of wing shooting

I will collect Carolinasman from Durban airport, he must just get there the rest is taken care of.

This is a suggested hunt programme and he can change things up while here and also adjust the safari to his health needs etc.

If you want to get the trophies mounted then we can get an estimate from a taxidermist that can handle all the formalities etc.

Let me know your thoughts and lets make this happen.
Also please feel free to make comments or advise etc.
I have ensured that all hunting destinations are within 90 minutes of easy driving from the best hospitals in the province so should the person take a turn for the worse he would be within easy reach of good medical.
I would like to suggest that the funds gathered buy him a global rescue membership too so we have access to air lift

Kind regards
Ian

Ian Blakeway

The Box H Safaris Big Game Hounds & Specialist Hunting Outfitters

Dedicated to Hunting & Service Excellence!

Where Long Term Relationships are Valued!

Cell: 083 414 2446
Fax: 086 662 1632
mail: hunt@bushpighunt.co.za
Web: www.huntingtheboxh.co.za <http://www.huntingtheboxh.co.za>

Full Time, Licensed Hunting Outfitters & Professional Hunters

So fellas, what do you think? let's hear from Carolinasman first. When he is up and able, let's pool the funds for the major trophy fees as the day rate for the entire hunt was well as the minor critters have been covered. Ian Blakeway will take care of Carolinasman on his end and we an administer the funds on this end to give the gent a hand.

carolinasman--please reply to this forum or send me an email at pappas@mtaonline.net and we will work to make this happen. Again, keep positive thoughts. I know it may be difficult but every oncologist will state many terminal issues turn out not to be that. Let's focus on your recovery and WHEN you are able, go for the hunt and then vacation up here in Alaska for some fishing or caribou hunting, I will be your host, and join my mates and myself for an afternoon's shoot with some fine double rifles.

Ian, you are a true gentleman to step up to the plate with your offer. You will be known and remembered well on this forum.

So, fellas, what say you all? Can we make this thing work?
Cheers to you gents, you are the best AR has to offer.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Bushwack:
Looks like the whole Texas is after me..."they say everything is bigger in Texas", now i can see why...

Looks like the good folks everywhere all agree on this subject, in this case even with us Texans. It takes a real man to admit he's wrong, and do the right thing, know what I mean?

cal pappas. Nice work on organizing this. I'm in for a piece when the time arrives. Thanks for caring, and God Bless Carolinaman in his journey.

quote:

bushwack:

I cant speak for my fellow hunters from Kentucky but all that have spoken to will take steps to avoid ever hunting with you. Count on it!!

Samething here from Pennsylvania. I've been to Africa 8 times and will go again in 2013. Bushwack Safaris will not be considered - EVER.

Hi All
Cal thanks for posting this and volunteering to manage things from your side.
I have seen my fair share of cancer and it is nasty as cat shit.
Dont underestimate the energy it saps from your body and soul.

One thing that people must not forget is that 80% of the cancers are 100% curable.
Carolinasman, you hang in there. You will hunt again and get to watch the sun set over an African horizon. Its all in the mind, tell cancer to take a hike.

If Carolinasman decides not to take the offer up he is welcome to use it later or auction it off to cover some of his bills. All trophies outside of what I can give will be paid at cost so if there is money left over after the safari it goes to Carolinasmans hospital bills or he can pass it on to next years fund.

I think that this is a worthy cause so lets keep it going and make this an annual event.

I will be as flexible as I can so the basic outline of the safari can be changed up to suit his needs and wishes.

It is indeed heartening to see that even today when the world seems to be less humane than ever before, there are people who still care.

Regards
Ian

Very stand up. Here is an outfitter worthy of consideration!

Ian,

Good to se that there are gentlemen like you still in this business.

If ever in Zambia give me a call.

Cheers

Andrew

Good job Cal.