I guess it pays to look at the details. I scanned the 4457 I obtained last weekend for my rifle and scopes I'll be taking to Africa in September. As I was looking again at the scan after sending it via email to the outfitter I noticed the Customs Officer put the date next to his signature as 3/13/2012. Yup!! Nice glitch. Guess I'll be heading back to the airport this weekend to get a new one. Glad I caught it now.

You must be mistaken. The government NEVER screws up, so its probably your fault....

George W. Bush caused it (at least according to some on the AR political forum).

STOP! posting things like that. I went to the airport customs trailer about two hours ago and got my 4457 done. Came home, set it on the kitchen table, and went to get the latest updates on Judge G and Delta.

Then, I see this, and blow a cup of coffee thru my nose and on the monitor and keyboard trying to get up, turn around, and run to the kitchen to check in one, not-so-fluid motion. Whew! It has todays' date on it.

Jeez, don't do that to me!

Rich

I had one with the serial number short one number. Cost me 50 bucks in Joburg to be allowed to fix it. It was a winchester with a serial num G33xxxx and one of the 3s were left out

I always offer to fill out the 4457 form myself and then have them check it against the serial numbers, etc. They have never said no, as it cuts down on the work that they have to do with filling out the form. Moreover, that way it is nicely printed, the numbers are indeed correct and all they have to do is date it, sign it and stamp it.

+1 and they even like you then!!

It's a little vague at best. Up until last September, the Customs Nazis always accepted a colored Xerox copy of my 4457. Not so in Seattle, it was not acceptable. However, they issued my another one on the spot at the BA air terminal and stated I MUST have the original for return.

Had one agent in Sweetgrass, Montana who didn't understand why my 4457 was printed on 8 1/2 X 11. He demanded to know where I got that form to which I replied that it was printed directly from their Customs and Immmigation website.

Fast forward to last week. I rounded up an agent locally, since the closest place is Great Falls, 225 miles away. He entered THREE rifles on one form. I said that didn't make sense. What if I came back into the country with a 30-06 and Floyd, Guber, and Hubcap wanted to know where were the .458 Model 70 and the 86 Browning in .45-70. He said it didn't matter, and refused to issue separate forms. I had him put it in writing and will carry that official blessing or disclaimer, if you will, with me next trip.

Every day is a new world with ther freakin bureaucrats.

I always list several items on my 4457-never had a question over the rifles listed and not present for duty. also, I have always used a xerox copy when traveling-again never a question when re entering conus. the panty sniffer in Dallas was whom suggested the copy for travel and the original kept safely stored. The only thing these forms certify is that you possessed the items prior to leaving conus; thus, you did not purchase them overseas.

Mike,

Another beaurocratic tool. These arrogant jerks take themselves way too seriously. You are absolutely right that you are much better off with one form for each rifle. Some dumb ass here or in Africa will want to know where the other guns are. In Africa the "Official Blessing" the jerk signed will be worth zero.

Mark

All agents are not jerks. I did not have time to put a rifle on a 4577, My double was listed, but not a 414. I put the sales receipt in the case and off I went.

On return in Minneapolis /St Paul I showed my 4577 and receipt for the 416. Not a problem, the agent filled a 4577 on the spot and I was off to my connecting flight after he fondled and slobbered all over my M70 CRF 416 Rem Mag. I am pretty sure he was a hunter

I filled in my own 4457 and the Custom's agent was most accommodating. We chatted about my equipment and my trip. He was a hunter himself. It was a pleasant experience. After 9 international trips I have never had a bad customs experience. Although 8 of those trips were without guns (fishing equipment). I am not defending bureaucracies, just been lucky I guess. However I have had many miserable experiences with airline employees.

No, they aren't all jerks. I had one in Minneapolis that was obviously a hunter and we had a nice chat about our shared passion. Could have been the same agent in Minneapolis drooling over your Remington.

In my home territory, Montana border agents are noticeably hostile. Maybe it's part of their SOP shakedown. I am damn glad to get back out of Alberta, B.C., or Sask. most often with a firearm in tow.

Conversely, I had a little snafu with Air Canada, but never any real problems with the airlines.

People are different..............period.

Just the same, rather than press the point, I will at a future date, piecemeal those firearms individually for the customs form. I don't much care about the optics, cameras, laptops. They can put all of that on one form, but not my guns. My responsibility and I don't relish trying to explain myself with the weapons ownership here or in Timbuktu. Travelling with firearms isn't getting any easier.

quote:

Originally posted by yellowstone:
It's a little vague at best. Up until last September, the Customs Nazis always accepted a colored Xerox copy of my 4457. Not so in Seattle, it was not acceptable. However, they issued my another one on the spot at the BA air terminal and stated I MUST have the original for return.

Had one agent in Sweetgrass, Montana who didn't understand why my 4457 was printed on 8 1/2 X 11. He demanded to know where I got that form to which I replied that it was printed directly from their Customs and Immmigation website.

Fast forward to last week. I rounded up an agent locally, since the closest place is Great Falls, 225 miles away. He entered THREE rifles on one form. I said that didn't make sense. What if I came back into the country with a 30-06 and Floyd, Guber, and Hubcap wanted to know where were the .458 Model 70 and the 86 Browning in .45-70. He said it didn't matter, and refused to issue separate forms. I had him put it in writing and will carry that official blessing or disclaimer, if you will, with me next trip.

Every day is a new world with ther freakin bureaucrats.

back before i started using camp rifles, i had a .338 win mag(a winchester) and a .375 H&H( whitworth) on the same form but never took both of them at the same time to Africa. never had a problem coming home. maybe just lucky but i also was told at the time i got the 4457 that it was OK.

The agents in Grands Rapdis Michigan are Gems.

I just fill out the forms, (one gun per form), they stamp and sign it and go about their business. No muss no fuss.

+1 what Terry said. It is about a 2 minute deal with those guys.

Jason

agent in tulsa wrote my remington down as winchester

I filled out the whole form except his signature and date of his signature. He was a nice enough guy, he just screwed up the year on the date. I think he was too busy telling me how excited he was about maybe being transfered to Durbin.

Dumb question. Why would we have US customs agents in other countries?

Don't get me started on customs folks..........at least the few bad apples.

When I got my 4457 forms many years ago I filled out the forms myself and handed it to the customs agent who signed it, etc.

I did not have to present my guns to him for verification. In fact my partner walked into the office area ahead of me with his cased guns and they yelled to him to "get those things out of here".

Anybody else get their 4457 forms without presenting the guns for verification?

I have always had my guns but have never had them check my s/n's to match my personally filled out 4457.

On every 4457 I have had completed they checked every serial number on every item including optics and cameras (Baltimore) but the staff has always been very pleasant and helpful. I always make a point of visiting the officers and telling them I have firearms before I bring them into the building. They seem to appreciate that and have always invited me to bring them in.

Have been down to the Atlanta Customs office several times to get 4457s, I tend to get one for each one of guns and when I get new ones that means I need a 4457 for it. And only once did they check my serial numbers against my guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:
On every 4457 I have had completed they checked every serial number on every item including optics and cameras (Baltimore) but the staff has always been very pleasant and helpful. I always make a point of visiting the officers and telling them I have firearms before I bring them into the building. They seem to appreciate that and have always invited me to bring them in.

They knew we what was happening we told them what we want to do and they were the ones that gave us the blank forms to fill out.

Guys, I know everyone is used to doing it the "old" way, but I'm pretty sure the "new" way eliminates all the problems we're talking about here...at least i've had no problems with the last 2 times I've done it the "new" way. What I mean by "new" way is:
Print 4457 off customs site. Fill it out yourself. Sign in the presence of a notary. Hand to customs guys upon re-entry. No Problems. At least until they change the rules again.

I have a relevant question. - Different countries list dates in differnt ways. For example here in the UK the 6th of November would be shown as 06.11.2010. Am I correct in thinking that the same date in the US is shown as 11.06.2010? I think that Zim uses the same system as the US. Has anyone come across any problems with this and do the officials in different countries know to allow for international variations?

OK, got my new 4457 today. I think I may go to the airport weekly and get a new one just for entertainment.

I went in and got greeted by a newbie Custom's guy. He knew nothing about a 4457. He told me to follow him into an office that had about 6 Customs guys and a Customs woman all at computers. They looked up at me when I entered and one called from his desk and said to me in a stern voice, "Hey you are not supposed to be in here, get outside". The newbie looked petrified.

I walked out out into the big warehouse like area and waited by the open office door while the newbie got dressed down for not knowing where the form was.

He came out looking like a head shy dog and asked me to remove the rifle from the case. I did, and opened the bolt, checked it (as always) and the newbie admitted not to know "much about these types of guns".

Then an older guy came out and started drooling. He politely asked if he could see my rifle. I said have at it. He knew what he was holding. He called into the office and three more guys came out. It became a fondle fest. Meanwhile the newbie looked at me and I read his mind. I said, "let me fill it out".

Then the older guy kindly walked him through checking the serial number and form. When he was done he told the newbie, "take a good look at this rifle, you won't see many this nice". The newbie pointed to the checkering and asked. "How did the wood get this dimpling"?

Like I said, I might head back again just for fun!!

Jim,

Great story. Goes to show how litte exposure a large part of our society has had to sporting arms and hunting.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Goldfinch:
Guys, I know everyone is used to doing it the "old" way, but I'm pretty sure the "new" way eliminates all the problems we're talking about here...at least i've had no problems with the last 2 times I've done it the "new" way. What I mean by "new" way is:
Print 4457 off customs site. Fill it out yourself. Sign in the presence of a notary. Hand to customs guys upon re-entry. No Problems. At least until they change the rules again.

I am needing to make a trip to the airport...unless what you state above is correct, which would be great. I found the form, but the directions are the "old way.

Where did you get your information?

4457 Form/Instructions: http://forms.cbp.gov/pdf/CBP_Form_4457.pdf

and: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/tra...g/register_items.xml

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Goldfinch:
Guys, I know everyone is used to doing it the "old" way, but I'm pretty sure the "new" way eliminates all the problems we're talking about here...at least i've had no problems with the last 2 times I've done it the "new" way. What I mean by "new" way is:
Print 4457 off customs site. Fill it out yourself. Sign in the presence of a notary. Hand to customs guys upon re-entry. No Problems. At least until they change the rules again.

Where did you this idea???

This is actually the way air2000 has been advising clients lately. I did it last December, last august and this past December and it worked all 3 times with no problems. Print the form off the site. Fill out in the presence of a notary. Show up. No questions.

Not that air2000 knows what US customs wants, but that is what they have been telling clients. If anyone has any "professional" advice regarding this, i'd like to hear it. I would bet, though, that the truth is, that no one, including the customs guys, knows what the proper procedure is. You couldn't get a straight answer out of the government nowadays if your life depended on it.

I emailed with Anne from Air2000. I think you/they are getting confused between making a copy of the original (signed/stamped) 4457 and getting it notarized as an original copy for purposes of obtaining a South African gun import permit - and actually getting a 4457.

I have no doubt that what you have been doing has worked to "prove ownership", thus far, as might a sales receipt. Heck, over the course of my trips, on occasion I have not even been asked for the form or my gun case opened upon arrival in the US. Other times I have, and the Customs official was quite diligent following what they thought was "procedure" in confirming the form, the little Allentown PA airport is was issued at, and the "official" customs stamp.

Bottom line - one can print and complete the online form, BUT play it safe, take it to the Customs office and have it signed [just like always] prior to departure. A good idea is to have them make you a copy (or two) there, and stamp this also.

Online Form: http://forms.cbp.gov/pdf/CBP_Form_4457.pdf

Is it OK to print the form out letter-size, or does it need to be closer to the size you'd get if you went to a Customs office? I am asking from the perspective of the Customs agent's idea of what is "official," not what is most convenient for us.

I guess I have been out of the loop longer than I thought; last time I had occasion to need a 4457, it could not be downloaded and printed. When did that change?

Last trip, I was the last person to get their baggage off the plane, everyone else had cleared US Customs in Chicago. I thought, oh boy, here comes the body cavity search... The first agent I run into asks me where I'm from, Montana I say. He asks me several questions about Montana, the type of stuff only someone who actually lived in Montana whould know or care to know, turns out he was stationed North of Great Falls for a number of years. Neither he nor any of the other agents asked to see my 4457, opened my gun case or even looked in my bags. Quickest, most friendly trip I've ever had through Customs.

quote:

Originally posted by 458WM:
Is it OK to print the form out letter-size, or does it need to be closer to the size you'd get if you went to a Customs office? I am asking from the perspective of the Customs agent's idea of what is "official," not what is most convenient for us.

I guess I have been out of the loop longer than I thought; last time I had occasion to need a 4457, it could not be downloaded and printed. When did that change?

For the last couple of years I have used the one of the website and have never had any problem with the size.

I think it was around 2006 or 2007 that CBP made the form available online. I love it because you can just save it has a pdf form and type everything in on the computer, make changes, etc. I do always make sure to print the form front and back - just like the original comes.

Bill C is right about the notary issue. You take either a duplicate original or a good color copy and put on the bottom a line that says you say it is true and correct and have a notary sign and stamp. I have done this and, while maybe not always necessary, evidently it can sometimes facilitate the issuing of your SAPS forms.

Not 4457 related. Everyone has a different opinion, which is great, but I would not personally land in Joburg without Air2000, and I would have a serious discussion with a client who balked at it. Life is just too short and Anne handles things so beautifully.