I have known for years South Africa has a very high crime rate. However, I thought this in the cities. After reading in another forum on AR about the farm violence and it having a political direction, I Googled "South Africa farm violence." I must admit I was really taken back by the photos. Not just dead bodies but horrible mutilation and torture. Men with their heads split open lying in a puddle of their own brains, a beautiful young lady tied to a bed with a large crucifix jammed in her mouth, etc…

I understand that there are many areas in the US I would not visit such as many inner cities and ghettos but since our hunting is done in the remote and rural areas, what safety measures are in place for hunters?

I've hunted SA three times and will hunt there again twice in 2018 and I'm developing a concern about the issue. Before you reply, do the Google search.

Cheersm fellas.
Cal

There are some outfitters that have hired armed security. Whether they admit it in public or not is another story.

For anyone so disturbed about the situation to consider canceling, I am a buyer for $0.35 on the dollar.

If you're not traveling in South Africa due to fear of crime, then you certainly don't want to travel in Mississippi where a 7 year-old boy sleeping in the backseat was shot to death by carjackers. http://time.com/4784745/kingst...jacking-amber-alert/

Statistically, I'll take my chances in South Africa, Namibia, or many other places when compared to Houston or New Orleans. Bad things happen everywhere, often through no fault of the victim. But taking individual incidents out of context serves no constructive purpose.

Yeah, well proclaiming some place as "safe", and "taking your chances" are two very different things.

I'll go .365 cents on the dollar. If the mainstream media were to report all the incidents that happen within areas of the USA, I'd guess foreign travellers would be having this same conversation regards travel here.

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
I'll go .365 cents on the dollar. If the mainstream media were to report all the incidents that happen within areas of the USA, I'd guess foreign travellers would be having this same conversation regards travel here.

Come on, I know several South African ex pats, there is no comparison and the violence is random and totally senseless. Being White makes you a special target. there are good reasons Professional people desert their country and become ex pats.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
I'll go .365 cents on the dollar. If the mainstream media were to report all the incidents that happen within areas of the USA, I'd guess foreign travellers would be having this same conversation regards travel here.

Come on, I know several South African ex pats, there is no comparison and the violence is random and totally senseless. Being White makes you a special target. there are good reasons Professional people desert their country and become ex pats.

Grizz

It's the typical AR arrogance by some members here that think they know more than a local guy like Venture South who lives there and deals with it every day. Common sense will tell you whose information to rely on.

I'm willing to bet you could ask ten people from the states about the level of violence here and you'd get ten different answers. Residency alone does not mean anything other than it being one person's perspective. Arrogance comes in many different forms.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
There are some outfitters that have hired armed security. Whether they admit it in public or not is another story.

To keep their clients safe ?? Never heard of it. Maybe its because my neck of the woods is pretty laid back.

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
I'm willing to bet you could ask ten people from the states about the level of violence here and you'd get ten different answers. Residency alone does not mean anything other than it being one person's perspective. Arrogance comes in many different forms.

You could get different answers from me. My home is a hell of a lot safer than leaving my office at night.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
I'm willing to bet you could ask ten people from the states about the level of violence here and you'd get ten different answers. Residency alone does not mean anything other than it being one person's perspective. Arrogance comes in many different forms.

You could get different answers from me. My home is a hell of a lot safer than leaving my office at night.

Larry,

If you dont mind PM me your itinerary and I will gladly look at it and identify any possible "hot spots".

If you are in condition Orange meaning you are aware of your surroundings and stay away from possible "hot spots" you will have a pleasent trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
I'm willing to bet you could ask ten people from the states about the level of violence here and you'd get ten different answers. Residency alone does not mean anything other than it being one person's perspective. Arrogance comes in many different forms.

You could get different answers from me. My home is a hell of a lot safer than leaving my office at night.

Larry,

If you dont mind PM me your itinerary and I will gladly look at it and identify any possible "hot spots".

If you are in condition Orange meaning you are aware of your surroundings and stay away from possible "hot spots" you will have a pleasent trip.

So you're saying these getting ambushed are not aware of these "hot spots", even though some are natives?

Last year, a business associate who is from RSA told me to avoid the airport area and Jo'berg in general and if you have to overnight, to stay in Sandton. If course, I thanked her for her advice and stayed at Africa Sky, the area she told me to stay away from. Weeks ago, a car full of tourist are carjacked outside the airport the driver shot dead and left in the street and the tourist robbed. That could happen anywhere. I was told of Farm murders, but not to worry its not hunting farms they are killing folks at. While hunting, the owner told be that he had a break-in right before I arrived, but they were closed and no one was there. Then a read a report upon return to the States that the manager was robbed by 5 armed men at gun point and tied up, breaking free and escaping. But that could happen anywhere. The fact is its just not anywhere, its happening all over RSA. Would I go back and hunt the same place again, yes but with precautions.

Most folks don't know how much crime is in your hometown. If you really want to find out just head down to your local Courthouse and just observe for a week. You will be shocked.

.

OMG ! I am glad I didn't read this thread two weeks ago. Have today just finished a 1.800 km self drive hunting shooting fishing trip throughout RSA. Clearly I didn't realise how dangerous RSA was! Have been driving around RSA for over a decade.

Lucky we had no incidents on this trip other than my wife getting chomped by pepper ticks in the bush! Dangerous place the African bush !! In fact we have never had any incidents on any trips. Maybe we are missing something

.

It seems that SA is currently at least a bit more dangerous than in the past. Perhaps the more relevant question for those planning future visits is whether safety for visitors is likely to get better, worse, or remain about the same. As the trend seems to have been in a negative direction the question becomes what news from SA would signify a reversal of that trend?

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

OMG ! I am glad I didn't read this thread two weeks ago. Have today just finished a 1.800 km self drive hunting shooting fishing trip throughout RSA. Clearly I didn't realise how dangerous RSA was! Have been driving around RSA for over a decade.

Lucky we had no incidents on this trip other than my wife getting chomped by pepper ticks in the bush! Dangerous place the African bush !! In fact we have never had any incidents on any trips. Maybe we are missing something

.

My wife and I finished a similar 2 1/2 week trip last week.And we lived to tell about it. Simply amazing how lucky we were

The thing that makes me a bit uneasy is that I have no way to protect myself there compared to here in the States where I can carry a gun. There I'm SOL and have to count on good fortune to get away unscathed.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

OMG ! I am glad I didn't read this thread two weeks ago. Have today just finished a 1.800 km self drive hunting shooting fishing trip throughout RSA. Clearly I didn't realise how dangerous RSA was! Have been driving around RSA for over a decade.

Lucky we had no incidents on this trip other than my wife getting chomped by pepper ticks in the bush! Dangerous place the African bush !! In fact we have never had any incidents on any trips. Maybe we are missing something

.

My wife and I finished a similar 2 1/2 week trip last week.And we lived to tell about it. Simply amazing how lucky we were

You were lucky and so was I. If I had been there 2 weeks earlier, myself, wife and daughter at a minimum would have been robbed and tied up at gunpoint or at the other end of the spectrum, I would not be here to write this.

Supposedly there was a nice South African family that stopped by a local salebarn last week. They are looking for a place to relocate their ranching operation. I don't think there are many US citizens looking for ranch property in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Gale Johnson:
Supposedly there was a nice South African family that stopped by a local salebarn last week. They are looking for a place to relocate their ranching operation. I don't think there are many US citizens looking for ranch property in Africa.

On the contrary Gale. There's lots of foreign investment in my area.

Lots of property here in the Eastern Cape is owned by foreigners. Some newly acquired.

Just back and can say the folks in Jo'berg are on high alert, particularly around the airport. Also a nasty abduction/murder at Stellenbosch had everyone very stirred up. Working on next years plan and trying to avoid RSA.

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Just back and can say the folks in Jo'berg are on high alert, particularly around the airport. Also a nasty abduction/murder at Stellenbosch had everyone very stirred up. Working on next years plan and trying to avoid RSA.

I bet you nothing as high alert as airports in London , Paris or US after the recent attacks in the UK.
With all due respect , what the hell does a murder in Stellenbosch have to do with a hunters safety in say Cradock or Phalaborwa on a Ranch in the middle of no where ? Like saying I shouldn't hunt the pan handle cause there's a murder in Chicago.

.

Exactly - Africa looks pretty safe compared to Europe at the moment ! Would rather be in Jhb than Ldn any day !!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Just back and can say the folks in Jo'berg are on high alert, particularly around the airport. Also a nasty abduction/murder at Stellenbosch had everyone very stirred up. Working on next years plan and trying to avoid RSA.

I bet you nothing as high alert as airports in London , Paris or US after the recent attacks in the UK.
With all due respect , what the hell does a murder in Stellenbosch have to do with a hunters safety in say Cradock or Phalaborwa on a Ranch in the middle of no where ? Like saying I shouldn't hunt the pan handle cause there's a murder in Chicago.

What about a robbery in McCarthy's Rest on a hunting farm?
https://southafricatoday.net/s...k-by-five-armed-men/

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Just back and can say the folks in Jo'berg are on high alert, particularly around the airport. Also a nasty abduction/murder at Stellenbosch had everyone very stirred up. Working on next years plan and trying to avoid RSA.

I bet you nothing as high alert as airports in London , Paris or US after the recent attacks in the UK.
With all due respect , what the hell does a murder in Stellenbosch have to do with a hunters safety in say Cradock or Phalaborwa on a Ranch in the middle of no where ? Like saying I shouldn't hunt the pan handle cause there's a murder in Chicago.

What about a robbery in McCarthy's Rest on a hunting farm?
https://southafricatoday.net/s...k-by-five-armed-men/

Better yet , tell us how many trophy hunting clients have had their lives endangered on a hunt ( held at gun point , shot at etc ) in South Africa as opposed to other African countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Just back and can say the folks in Jo'berg are on high alert, particularly around the airport. Also a nasty abduction/murder at Stellenbosch had everyone very stirred up. Working on next years plan and trying to avoid RSA.

I bet you nothing as high alert as airports in London , Paris or US after the recent attacks in the UK.
With all due respect , what the hell does a murder in Stellenbosch have to do with a hunters safety in say Cradock or Phalaborwa on a Ranch in the middle of no where ? Like saying I shouldn't hunt the pan handle cause there's a murder in Chicago.

What about a robbery in McCarthy's Rest on a hunting farm?
https://southafricatoday.net/s...k-by-five-armed-men/

Better yet , tell us how many trophy hunting clients have had their lives endangered on a hunt ( held at gun point , shot at etc ) in South Africa as opposed to other African countries.

At least one: Google is your friend:
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfr...of-tourists-20110806

Wonderful work. Now tell us how safe the other African countries are. Never mind that most of those never make the headline news.

off course the murder statistics in South Africa are horrific. We know that. But to say that its more dangerous to hunt in South Africa than any other country would be nonsense.
I'm 49 years old. Lived my whole life in this country and have not been in or seen a life threatening situation. When I'm done typing here I will walk outside , without a weapon , and check that all the lights are off in camp etc. I don't live in fear and neither should my clients.
Johannesburg is not a good place. Period. Arrive at the airport , and get to your hunting lodge with your PH or overnight at a reputable Hotel and fly or drive out the next day.
Don't flash money around , it will make you a target -- like everywhere else in the world.
Hunters who hunt here regularly know this. And return year after year.

Happy hunting

One of the guys from our area here in SA that hunts in Mozambique was shot by poachers in the camp that they host hunters in. It's the second incident, in the first incident they robbed the whole camp at gunpoint including foreign clients. No mainstream media to report, I didn't read anything in the media or on the internet. If that happened in SA it would be all over the web and in the news. And if you based your research on what you read on the internet, Mozambique would appear safer than SA. It's not true though is it.

. . . truth is that not everyone is cut out for international travel much less international travel to Africa . . . they spend more time worrying about the experience than they do enjoying the experience.

Mike,

You're 100% right. I've found out in the years I've been doing this job that it takes real guts for some people to commit to an international hunt and it just is not for everyone. Several times I've had people work themselves into a real lather about "What if" and consequently they just can't let themselves book. Just thinking about everything involved in a safari scares the crap out of some people.

Mark

These are the people that go to Texas to hunt kudu, nyala, Cape buffalo etc.....Safer

Victor, That is a good point.

I'm supposed to go to SA next year but am now concerned as my wife will be along. I was planning on staying at Africa Sky but I am particularly concerned about the trip from the airport to the guest house. It would seem a visiting hunter would be a tempting target. I think I will email Africa Sky and ask about their security procedures.

I wouldn't be so worried but my wife being along changes things for me. And I'm not going without her.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
off course the murder statistics in South Africa are horrific. We know that. But to say that its more dangerous to hunt in South Africa than any other country would be nonsense.
I'm 49 years old. Lived my whole life in this country and have not been in or seen a life threatening situation. When I'm done typing here I will walk outside , without a weapon , and check that all the lights are off in camp etc. I don't live in fear and neither should my clients.
Johannesburg is not a good place. Period. Arrive at the airport , and get to your hunting lodge with your PH or overnight at a reputable Hotel and fly or drive out the next day.
Don't flash money around , it will make you a target -- like everywhere else in the world.
Hunters who hunt here regularly know this. And return year after year.

Happy hunting

I hear what you are saying. I do not disagree.

The problem is that often, some of us can't avoid exiting OR Tambo. Therein lies the problem. In addition, the last time I personally hunted the RSA, whenever we stopped for fuel, the PH would not allow us to go to the restrooms without being accompanied by some of the staff. He said it wasn't safe. This was far different than my previous experiences. What would you think?

The truth of the matter is that Europe concerns me a lot more than Africa with the notable exception of Johannesburg. I will be glad when we get out of Johannesburg.

Jan- We heard multiple times that the RSA government/President are actively involved in suppressing news reports dealing with robbery, carjacking,murder, etc.? Is that something you have heard of?

wwgreener, My family and I are doing the same thing next year, going from the airport to Africa Sky, as we have done many times before. African Sky will be waitng at the airport for you. (Clarify that when you make your reservations.)
They do it every day. No worries.

Wow,

Guys make it sound like South Africa is a war zone where you need to travel in an armed convoy if you want to survive...

I agree with Jan,

I am 41, worked more than a few years abroad and I can honestly say I could not wait to get back to South Africa.

A little common sense goes a long way, same precautions made when traveling internationally does not matter where in the world goes for South Africa.

Discuss this with your Outfitter and his procedures for collecting you from the airport and back.

Dont let the "What if" factor spoil your life....