Hi

I'm going to be flying threw the US with a firearm and ammo and was wondering what the rules are regarding locks on normal luggage as well as locks on baggage containing ammo and locks on the gun case.
Which ones have to have the TSA locks on them?

THANKS

TSA locks on luggage.

Padlock(s) on gun case.

Padlock(s) on ammo case.

If your gun case or ammo case has a place for two locks make certain to use two.

This practice has served me well on 3 overseas trips and other domestic flights.

What Mike said.

I had no problem with TSA locks on my ammo case last week.

As a side note. I flew to Zim last October and had my ammo in my duffle bag, thankfully in a hard sided pistol case. As I was going thru the check in in J'burg, the lady at the gate asked to check my ammo. I opened my duffle and she said I would have to check it in as another piece of luggage. Luckily, just luckily, I had locked it on a whim at home and put it in my duffle. Had it not been in a hard sided pistol case with a lock I might have had a real problem. Two times before, it went right on thru in my luggage.

I just completed a trip on Delta Airlines with firearms.

Check the specific rules of the airline on which you'll be traveling. Regarding Delta Airlines, it says specifically firearms have to be locked with locks other than TSA locks; you don't have to use padlocks. Any lock that blocks access by anyone but you is OK. Firearms must also be in a hard sided case.

At least for Delta Airlines, ammo can be packed with the firearm and does not need to be locked in a separate case but must be packed in some container made for ammo. In other words, you could use the factory boxes or one of the plastic ammo boxes.

Just returned from Moz,SA and somewhere between SA and home, the lock on my ammo box(Pelican w/ Master padlock) was cut. Box was packed in duffle bag. Nothing missing.

Putting a keyed lock on your ammo case is not smart. TSA sometimes wants to get into that case (which is usually inside some other case) to take a look and if you are at the gate, they will call you back. Or if it's checked thru baggage, they will just cut that lock.

Now here is the complication. Recently, on some connecting flights originating in JNB (and I am not sure whether there is any method to this madness), airlines have insisted that the ammo be checked completely separately, so it can be handled by the security company people (yes those people that steal your stuff) and not by the normal baggage handlers (who also steal your stuff).

So what to do? Two options: put a TSA lock on your ammo case, as well as on the baggage that it's checked in. Or, take an extra padlock so if you get to RSA and they want you to check it separately, then you can lock it.

What Russ said. That way if TSA wants to look in your locked ammo box they can, and they won't cut your lock. As to the South Africans, it will also keep them out unless they decide that they want inside and then they will cut the locks anyway. No TSA locks at all on gun cases. It's against federal law. Just regular locks on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
What Russ said. That way if TSA wants to look in your locked ammo box they can, and they won't cut your lock. As to the South Africans, it will also keep them out unless they decide that they want inside and then they will cut the locks anyway. No TSA locks at all on gun cases. It's against federal law. Just regular locks on them.

Last year TSA cut the locks off my Pelican ammo box & left a paper inside saying it was inspected by TSA. I even included an extra lock inside so if they did cut it off they could replace it but no they did not use the extra lock.

Another reason I use an old fashioned aluminum case. Since TSA forgot to put the rod that goes thru the 4 latches once, I just put 4 locks on it. Two are TSA locks and two are my own. If they cut the locks I own, I still have two good locks.

Here is where you need to be careful: connecting from Canada in the US. There is no TSA in Canadian airports. If you connect in the US, they may want to look in your bag.

Here is another tip: since I stopped packing gun oil and all kinds of other bullshit in my gun case, I no longer have to unlock it for TSA. Put all kinds of crap in your case and you are asking for trouble.

I just returned from a Steelhead fly fishing trip to the Pacific Northwest and TSA had mangled one of my TSA locks. It appears that they tried to cut it, followed by beating it with something. It would have been easier for them to just have opened it and inspected my studded wading shoes. Instead they damaged the lock to the point that I had to literally throw it away when I got home. Go figure that one, along with Karamojo Bill's response above.

TSA locks are not legal in the USA for firearms or ammo!

I've read the regulations, and I see it implies that you are to use a lock with no one else having the key or combination.

However, it seems that the TSA guys read this as since you have the only combination to a TSA lock, its fine for use in the US.

I realize that the written regs disagree with this, but its what TSA does that is the big issue. I spent about 30 minutes of a long layover talking with some of the TSA gun screeners in Anchorage, and this is exactly what they said regarding it.

In effect, the TSA says TSA locks are OK, and they won't get cut off. The written regs say you must have the only means of access but TSA may (depending on the situation) cut the locks to inspect. Looks to me like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

As to the ammo, I don't think TSA cares. I think the ammo carriage is per the airlines only. (the treaty covering goods limits it to 5 kg on international flights.) I asked the airport TSA guys about ammo, and they said as long as its locked and in a factory type box, they were good.

Obviously secondhand to you guys, but I think it may help with why the airlines and TSA don't seem to care when you use a TSA lock on the gun case.

...and that's your experience w/that shift of TSA. Go through on another shift and see if you get a different answer. (not trying to be a smart ass, just saying...)

Also each airport has it's own interpretation of the regulations....kinda like the Harris County Penal Code

Those TSA guys you talked with are full of *#it and don't know their own regs! You should report them to TSA admin or inspector general.

The lock on a gun case is to be inaccessible to anyone but you - that includes TSA, who is to request the key or combination FROM you for inspection and then return the key/combo to you. That's the law. I've published the regs here on many occasions, as have others. You should never travel with guns without TSA and airline regs copied and in your carry-on so that you can politely present them to the idiot TSA and airline agents you run into. The internet is your friend, just search the Federal and airlines websites. Always ask, politely, to speak with a supervisor when these dumbos start quoting contradictory info to you.

I perused the Delta Airlines regulations regarding TSA locks and their web site now specifically says they can't be used to lock gun cases so, irrespective of whether or not it's legal or TSA approved, the airline may complicate your life if you use them.

Lionhunter is spot on. TSA locks are accessible to TSA personnel because TSA locks (keyed or by combination) can be opened by TSA personnel with a TSA device or key. That is wholly different from TSA cutting locks off to inspect something. Therefore TSA locks do not meet the federal law that requires that you, and only you, have the key, combination, etc. etc. to the locks on your gun case. Any TSA keyed or combination lock can be opened by TSA personel with their device or key. TSA locks on guns cases violate federal law.

Hey, I'm not arguing what the rules say...

I'm just saying what a few TSA guys said (and they didn't give me any guff for using regular padlocks- they were really nice guys)and it sounds like what they told me happens more often than not.

You can argue with The Man, but it usually is frustrating.

Again, what you are saying is literally right, but like tax law, it means what the enforcing agency says it means.

We're not arguing with you either. It depends on whether YOU, irrespective of what any TSA personnel may believe or say, wish to violate federal law and take the chance of being held liable for the same.

I just left Phoenix yesterday following my mule deer hunt and they actually checked the type of lock I had before x-raying my gun case so it would seem some TSA folks are on the ball. I would also like to comment that the Sky Harbor airport in Phoenix was great about handling guns and that there was an overall friendly attitude presented there that I really appreciated on a 5AM check-in.

Mark

I've had TSA tell me that they only want locks that can be opened by me and others at TSA tell me they wanted TSA locks. On my last trip to Africa I put the heavy duty TSA locks on my gun cases while transiting through Amsterdam. Even though the cases had the transit permit taped to the side, they cut off all the locks during layover at Schipol. I always bring extra locks with me and put extra locks in the cases as well.

BTW, upon returning to the US and going through customs I was somewhat surprised to learn when the guns were inspected that ICE does not have TSA "keys". The customs guys just laughed and said, what do you expect, it's the US Government.....

EB-

Have you read the posts in this thread? You violated TSA regs by flying with "...heavy duty TSA locks on my gun cases...". Is there something you don't understand, or are you just spreading FUD? What some idiot TSA agent "tells" you does not supersede the WRITTEN regulations! By posting this crap you help continue the confusion and errors and perpetuate the myth that TSA locks on gun cases are OK or required; they're NOT!

Anybody else out there who cannot read/understand English?

www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrave.../editorial_1666.shtm

Any questions?

reading this thread makes me glad i no longer travel internationally with a gun. too much bullshit erroneously interpreted by too many idiots. camp rifles work fine for me- they go bang when i pull the trigger and hit what i aim at.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
EB-

Have you read the posts in this thread? You violated TSA regs by flying with "...heavy duty TSA locks on my gun cases...". Is there something you don't understand, or are you just spreading FUD? What some idiot TSA agent "tells" you does not supersede the WRITTEN regulations! By posting this crap you help continue the confusion and errors and perpetuate the myth that TSA locks on gun cases are OK or required; they're NOT!

Anybody else out there who cannot read/understand English?

www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrave.../editorial_1666.shtm

Any questions?

I have always used TSA locks on my gun case and have connected out of Altlant(Delta), Houston (Continental,BA, Luthansa),Boston(Virgin)and Washington (Emirates) and have never had a problem here or there. I have also never had my ammo in a locked anything but do keep it in a ammo box. Not saying I am doing it right but I have just not had a problem.Is there a rule that says no TSA on gun case?

quote:

ave never had a problem here or there. I have also never had my ammo in a locked anything but do keep it in a ammo box. Not saying I am doing it right but I have just not had a problem.Is there a rule that says no TSA on gun case?

From the TSA Web Site - link in previous post.

"The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

* You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
* The firearm must be unloaded.
* The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
* The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
* We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
* You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
* You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
* You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
* You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.

Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

Also, please note that many other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check with the authorities at your destination about their requirements."

Hmmm...it says "anyone other than you". My locks are combos with a place for a TSA key. Other than me and TSA no one theoretically should be able to get in.

DawnRoar

TSA = "...anyone other than you."

Are you really that dense or are you simply trolling?

I have no intention of being "polite" on this issue any longer. This has always been the TSA regulation, right from the beginning of the TSA firearm rules. People who continue to violate this policy, for whatever reason, jeopardize all who travel in or from the USA with firearms. It will only take one incident of injury or death resulting from an improperly secured firearm in transit for the TSA to make us all suffer. There are already those who do not want any of us to be allowed to travel with our firearms. Can't we at least try not to be our own worst enemy on this issue?

Nice Lion. Yours?

I guess I got lucky and found about 10 other dense TSA guys who passed me everytime. Not a peep from any of the airlines who took the guns or the countries who accepted them. Out of curiosity your qualifications on interpreting TSA regs are what? Has anyone here ever been rejected because you had TSA locks on your guns? Did I mention they cut my non-tsa locks off in Alaska? Yes to lion, killed it in Bots in 07, lion closed after that.

Just flew Delta LAX-ATL-JNB Oct 24/Nov 3
Aluminum gun case with steel rod and 1 keyed padlock with me having only key. Keyed Cabela's ammo box with me having only key in checked bag with no lock on bag.
No Delta issues.
No TSA issues.
No SAPS issues.
Going
or
Coming.

Dawnroar-
you said -"Did I mention they cut my non-tsa locks off in Alaska?"

Who's "they" and why did they cut the locks off and what kind of locks?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I just left Phoenix yesterday following my mule deer hunt and they actually checked the type of lock I had before x-raying my gun case so it would seem some TSA folks are on the ball. I would also like to comment that the Sky Harbor airport in Phoenix was great about handling guns and that there was an overall friendly attitude presented there that I really appreciated on a 5AM check-in.

Mark

LAX has been surprisingly good about my guns. SURPRISINGLY GOOD!

If TSA feels the need to inspect your gun case, TSA will make an attempt to contact you before they cut your non-TSA locks off of the gun case.(Usually over the airport's PA system if you are not still at check-in) So them cutting off non-TSA locks is consistent with their procedures. LionHunter's interpretation of the law is absolutely correct. If you also look at the NRA-ILA's "Guide To The Interstate Transportation of Firearms", and more specifically the section entitled: "Firearms Aboard Commercial Aircraft" it states: "The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked and only the passenger may retain the key or combination."

quote:

Originally posted by DawnRoar:
I guess I got lucky and found about 10 other dense TSA guys who passed me everytime. Not a peep from any of the airlines who took the guns or the countries who accepted them. Out of curiosity your qualifications on interpreting TSA regs are what? Has anyone here ever been rejected because you had TSA locks on your guns? Did I mention they cut my non-tsa locks off in Alaska? Yes to lion, killed it in Bots in 07, lion closed after that.

I will answer your questions re my qualifications, although I don't feel compelled to do so: I changed my mind. My qualifications are not relevant. I am correct regarding TSA rules on securing firearms. I'll just say that the placement of a single comma in the Second Amendment is what grants us all the RTKBA.

And yes, you did get lucky, but I wouldn't try it again as everyones luck runs out at some point. It does appear that TSA is becoming more aware of its' own regs re: locks on gun cases.

TSA regs have nothing to do with and are not enforced by any foreign country nor airline.

I am not now and have never been an employee of TSA, but it is irrelevant as to rejection stats.

I hope you took appropriate action after your locks were cut off.

With only 20 posts you might want to hold off on the sarcasm. If you stay on AR you will find that there are some very qualified and very experienced posters here.

quote:

With only 20 posts you might want to hold off on the sarcasm. If you stay on AR you will find that there are some very qualified and very experienced posters here.

A remarkable understatement...

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by DawnRoar:
I guess I got lucky and found about 10 other dense TSA guys who passed me everytime. Not a peep from any of the airlines who took the guns or the countries who accepted them. Out of curiosity your qualifications on interpreting TSA regs are what? Has anyone here ever been rejected because you had TSA locks on your guns? Did I mention they cut my non-tsa locks off in Alaska? Yes to lion, killed it in Bots in 07, lion closed after that.

I will answer your questions re my qualifications, although I don't feel compelled to do so: I changed my mind. My qualifications are not relevant. I am correct regarding TSA rules on securing firearms. I'll just say that the placement of a single comma in the Second Amendment is what grants us all the RTKBA.

And yes, you did get lucky, but I wouldn't try it again as everyones luck runs out at some point. It does appear that TSA is becoming more aware of its' own regs re: locks on gun cases.

TSA regs have nothing to do with and are not enforced by any foreign country nor airline.

I am not now and have never been an employee of TSA, but it is irrelevant as to rejection stats.

I hope you took appropriate action after your locks were cut off.

With only 20 posts you might want to hold off on the sarcasm. If you stay on AR you will find that there are some very qualified and very experienced posters here.

Let's see, you call me "Dense" and/or accuse me of "trolling" and now you ask me to lay off the sarcasm. Sounds fair

So, not only don't you know how to read and understand the TSA regs, but now you demonstrate you don't know what sarcasm is???

Perhaps you should quit while you're ahead.

You are the only person in disagreement on this thread now, that should be a clue. But you are allowed to say whatever you like as this is the internet and no license is required (now that's sarcasm). I see no productive reason to respond to you on this matter of TSA locks v. firearms again. Do whatever you please with your firearms while traveling, just don't spread FUD about it.

Dawnroar...Last year while flying out of Alb. New Mexico from an elk hunt SEVERAL hunters were turned down at the check in counter because they had TSA locks on their firearms cases. Some missed their flights. Others scrambled to find non TSA locks. So...Yes, I have seen it first hand.

I always just thought it was "common knowledge" that you don't put TSA locks on firearms. The rule has been in place forever. Delta has gone so far as to say NO TSA LOCKS ON FIREARMS....Pretty clear to me.

archer_375

Thanks for contributing.

quote:

Originally posted by DawnRoar:
I have always used TSA locks on my gun case and have connected out of Altlant(Delta), Houston (Continental,BA, Luthansa),Boston(Virgin)and Washington (Emirates) and have never had a problem here or there. I have also never had my ammo in a locked anything but do keep it in a ammo box. Not saying I am doing it right but I have just not had a problem.Is there a rule that says no TSA on gun case?

The above is what I said, notice the part about "not saying I am doing it right" and the request for a rule. I was not arguing just stating the fact that I have personally never had an issue. I get the rude response from from Lion Hunter calling me "dense" and/or a "troll".If that is how I am supposed to behave here after getting some "experience" here then thanks but looks like I don't fit in...at least with people who behave that way.