I was just informed by folks I have stay with (Afton House) in SA that the SAP office in Johannesburg is now requiring a expiration date to be on your 4457 form, as well as the usual issue date. Apparently this date is to be put on by U.S. custom officials. I recall another AR member had a problem with the 4457 form at the SAP office.

All of my 4457s are good for life and none have an exp. date. I don't think the US Customs does this.
Cal

Hi Cal;
I have been through SAP over 15 times and like you I thought the 4457 was good for life and have never had a problem with SAP. This may be something new?? However, this information was sent to me this AM from the Afton. I will call customs tomorrow and see if I can get any up to date information.

The times that I've been through with Africa Sky House, the SA Police folks barely checked my S/N numbers. It was also pretty quick and painless. I can't imagine them giving you grief about expiration dates on a 4457.

What is happening is that everyone (including some of our own CBP personal) is forgetting what a 4457 is for.

Rich "every thing is the same except, just make sure on the 4457 right top corner must be an expiry date now" "Yes it is NEW. They are always looking for ways to give us a hard time" this from the people that handle gun permits and deal with the SAP on a daily basis.

The intent behind the exp date on the 4457 refers to the date beyond which that printing edition is scheduled to be replaced by an updated one. It simply means that the government person needs to use a current form when responding to a request for a 4457. It does not mean that the information on an existing 4457 form is no longer valid. The office of management and budget (OMB) does the printing and sets the expiration date for that particular form. The information on that form does not expire. Ever.

This is true of government forms across the spectrum. I hope this misperception doesn't spin out of control with misinformed officials in SAPS. Can the South African Professional Hunters assn help spread the word? Hope so.

Guys,

HT is correct. When you print off a 4457 In the upper right corner there is an expiration date for the form. The SAPS people treat the 4457 as a gun permit and if they think the "permit" expires it could be problematic.

Mark

Guys,

From Gracy Travel. The Exp date on the 4457 should not be an issue and Gracy has given the SAPS police the info from our CBC saying that the exp date is irrelevant.

Mark

The expiration date on the 4457 was was a pain in the ass for me last October. I had a meet and greet meet me in J'berg, the officer at SAPS gave me a real hard time because of the expiration date. I had to leave my firearm at SAPS overnight, go to Afton House and go back the next morning to get my rifle. I believe Analiese at Afton House helped grease the skids so to speak, because the attitude was very different from the evening before. I did however have to listen to a tirade from the offical about how bad our government was for issuing a gun permit that was expired.

Dumb question I'm sure, but to avoid the issue, why not just write/type in 2020, 2020/12/31, or something? If the SAPS guys are dumb enough to think it is a license, they'll never know the difference will they?

+1 make a copy of the original, type in a exp date somewhere, then make a copy of the "new " version.

I ran into this problem last Sept. in the RSA. The SAPS women kept telling me and my friend that our 4457's were expired due to the form expiration date being in 2013.

You can read about the problems we encountered here: http://forums.accuratereloadin...701090812#7701090812

Scroll down through the thread to see my posts.

I'm thinking about updating my 4457's before my next trip to Africa just in case some other corrupt official tries to use this scam.

Well, getting an updated 4457 would at least take away that option from a corrupt official like the one lab man ran into.

They're a creative bunch, though! I will still use a meet and greet service.

Curious, the only date on mine is the one written in by the officer on the day it was given to me. On the top right hand corner it has OMB 1651-0010, on the bottom right hand corner is has CBP Form (06/92) All of mine have exactly the same numbers on them, acquired from 2009 to 2015 at the same office.

Back in 2003 when I made my last trip through RSA, the Airport Officials were only interested in getting some beer money from me.

They didn't even glance at my rifle or any of the paperwork.

What an ulcer on a country professing to be a modern, democratic nation.

BH63

Here's a previous discussion on the topic.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/6881070812/p/1

Scroll down through the replies to see my write up re: a recent experience in RSA with an "expired" 4457. Looks like the SAPS folks are just looking for another reason to extort some $$ out of visiting hunters. The OMB form expiration date on the 4457 seems to be the problem.

Here's another alert I received on the topic.

https://www.africahunting.com/...rican-hunters.36604/

Does anyone know if you want to get updated 4457's can you just take your old forms to CBP and get new ones without actually taking the firearms? Seems to me if you already have the 4457's why not just update them. Of course this is logical thinking and we're dealing with the gov't so it may not apply.

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
Here's another alert I received on the topic.

https://www.africahunting.com/...rican-hunters.36604/

Does anyone know if you want to get updated 4457's can you just take your old forms to CBP and get new ones without actually taking the firearms? Seems to me if you already have the 4457's why not just update them. Of course this is logical thinking and we're dealing with the gov't so it may not apply.

No, you must take your gun again.

I got the new Form 4457 in Denver yesterday. It is just the OMB expiration on the old Form 4457 that is causing the issue overseas. The police in SA don't understand that it is just an OMB expiration, not the document expiration. You guys are going to have to get the new forms due to ignorance in SA. It is also stupid that the US prints the OMB info on the form to begin with! It just confuses people overseas.

quote:

No, you must take your gun again.

Not so in my case.

I just returned from my local CBP office where I got new 4457's for five different rifles. I took a chance and went without my guns. I just took my old 4457's with me. I explained the situation in RSA to the receptionist and asked if I could get forms with a new "expiration date." She took my old forms and the new ones I had printed off the CBP website to an unseen agent and returned in a few minutes with both my new and old forms. I'm holding onto the old ones since 4 of the 5 have no expiration dates.

The CBP lady was very courteous and helpful. Lots of security in their office. I never got past a waiting room and had to speak to the nice lady through bullet proof glass.