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Sadly they can arrest you anywhere after you leave the plane until you leave the Customs Hall. Atlanta is the worst place to clear in the World? Never have been treated so badly in any Country I have entered carrying Firearms. There are numerous signs telling you there is NO CELL PHONE USE ALLOWED. Very sad commentary on the state of affairs.  | |||
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This story somewhat reminds me of when I came through Atlanta on my way back home from South Africa. I had been there carrying a bow, a Remington 700 and a sidelock muzzleloader. Getting off the plane, the rest of my party easily cleared customs, but I got pulled off to the side to clear my weaponry. I opened the bow case, he looked around in there, told me to close it up. I opened the two rifle case, he looked at the 700 that had the bolt removed, then looked at the muzzleloader. He said, show me that it's properly unloaded. I told him that it was a muzzleloader and there was not a percussion cap on the nipple, therefore it couldn't be fired. He repeated, show me that it's unloaded. I again restated the obvious but that wasn't good enough for him. So I removed the rifle from the case and explained how they are loaded to fire and if I dropped the ram rod down the bore, it would make a "CLUNK" when it hit the breech plug. Then I did that and sure enough, it went clunk. He then shouted, OPEN IT UP AND SHOW ME THAT IT'S UNLOADED!!! I said it's a sealed breech, it cannot be opened up unless you have a hacksaw in your back pocket and saw the end of the barrel off! I again told him that there was no percussion cap on the nipple, there wasn't a powder charge in the barrel and even showed him the line I had drawn on the ram rod showing the proper seated depth when the rifle was loaded and how it went way past that point, showing that the rifle was NOT loaded! Again, he shouted at me to prove the gun was unloaded. By this time, I was pretty hot myself, so I did the only thing I could think of. I picked up the rifle, with it pointed at the ceiling, I cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger! THAT just about got me arrested on the spot but one of the other customs officials came over and settled him down, and sent me on my way. If I ever return to Africa, I'll figure out a way to fly that doesn't take me through Atlanta.... | |||
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I travel in and out of the U.S. 15 or more times a year and for the most part have never had any bad incidents. Global Entry helps although if you are carrying firearms you still have to clear them. My last trip through Atlanta was the polar opposite of what happened in Houston. Absolutely painless and the CBP officer and I spent the time discussing my 98 Mauser and the safety Jim Kobe installed on it for me. The officer was quite the gun and hunting enthusiast. Sometimes it is just plain luck of the draw. Regards, Don Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong. | |||
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There's a reason I usually wear my Army Rangers baseball cap when I travel abroad. Three trips to Africa, and back thru Customs and I have always been treated with respect and courtesy. The last trip I had an former Navy Seal inspect my firearms and other baggage. We played the old game of "my branch was the best...". When he got to my hardcase, he saw my Kooban cigars, and asked me wink-wink, nod-nod; these are Nicaraguan, correct SIR!" I said yes, and he related a story about being able to buy them in Sandbox II and how great they are. I told him to take one, so after a few coaxings, he did. That was Atlanta in 2012. | |||
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I have cleared customs with guns in over a dozen countries and even more airports although far fewer than a lot of guys on here. Worst treatment ever was in Toronto Canada (bunny huggers) 2nd worst - San Francisco (more bunny huggers) best - tie between Anchorage and Namibia I like the idea of wearing a military ball cap. I'm going to try that next time | |||
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Just for my curiosity, is cell phone use prohibited in all Customs areas? If so, why? And what gives Customs the authority to prohibit Americans from exercising their rights of free speech? Often, these "rules or regulations" have not followed the rules and regulations that have to be followed to allow them to be used. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I don't think I have ever entered the U.S. where it wasn't prohibited and most other countries have the same rules. I was verbally reprimanded while clearing customs in South Korea a few years back for calling my driver on the cell phone (totally my fault) and I know most of the European points of entry have signs posted against cell phone use. Probably a security issue as much as anything else especially with the cameras now in these phones. Don Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong. | |||
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I have seen the signs in almost every country. Now, at LAX at the very least I think the signals are blocked anyway. Goes to zero bars in the customs area. As a rule I try to contact my driver etc., one the plane lands before I disembark. | |||
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Never had a customs problem, only a couple times that I've gone thru them and yrs ago. But, this reminds me of an incident I had with an IRS agent during an audit of my three yr closed business. He discovered I'd made an office purchase entry of $5.25 for a lousy rubber stamp posted in "truck expenses". He hadn't been able to find anything else wrong so he ranted & raved about that for 15 min. Until I finally got fed up with his shit and called him on it. "can I ask a question?" yes sir", "I apologize for making a bad entry, will it result in further taxes? "no" "will it result in a penalty?" "no" "then why don't you just drop it as I seldom make petty mistakes, you may find a major screw up yet". "you can go sir, this meeting is over" "huh?" "have a good day sir". Funny as hell but, like you folks I was fired up over his treatment and exhibition. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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Every now and again I get somebody who talks like that way, like it gives them some kind of higher authority, and when they do I politely mention that I am a retired Chief. The liars tend to just clam up on the spot. If I think they are just making it up I have been known to to do what you do, the 110x questions. If they are full of baloney what usually brings it to an immediate halt is, "Well, I may not have been your Chief, but I bet I know 'em. It is a small world." H. Cole Stage III, FRGS ISC(PJ), USN (Ret) "You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it." Harlan Ellison " War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce | |||
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I find the inconsistent "boot spraying" routine to be kind of comical. In Atlanta, they love to spray your boots; everywhere else, they could care less. In Atlanta, clear passport control (if you don't have Global Entry, get it - among other things you'll get TSA Pre-check for your domestic travel) then get a trolley and immediately go get in line at the little glass office where they clear guns. Get your boots out of your duffel. As soon as the CPB folks show up, get your boots sprayed, then clear your guns, THEN go get the rest of your luggage off the belt (if you have a traveling partner that makes it even easier). Atlanta has never been an issue for me aside from the fact that they are a little slow and their little room to clear the guns is not real conducive to the process. I've also cleared in DC - no boot spraying and no hassles. And in Toronto - bunny huggers or no, they gave me no trouble. And didn't spray. And in Chicago - a mixed bag, sometimes easy, sometimes a pain. In the end, I think it's more the particular individual you draw than any particular city. Best service in my experience: Sydney Australia. Mind you, I didn't try to bring any guns in. But we were obviously hunters, and a super polite gentleman took our boots and gave them such a thorough cleaning they looked brand new when he brought them back. I offered to take off my traveling shoes and let him have a go at them as well. | |||
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While usually there has been an issue with boots, last time I cleared in Houston, the could care less. I still pack my boots on top, counter to logic otherwise. | |||
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I've only cleared once in Houston, last month returning from Argentina. There was a long line in the area, someone was trying to clear bales of food or something. An officer came from the back and saw two of us standing near the back of the line and asked "hunters?" After our reply, he escorted us to another table and cleared us quickly. He was relatively quick, and professional. No fuss. I have had lots of other experiences that were closer to the OP's. On a side note, one of my traveling companions was in a different line than I and they didn't direct him to clear his firearms, just to the exit. One of the benefits of a tuff-Pak. | |||
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I concur with that 200%.............. Atlanta sends their two bit customs agents to ASSHOLE SCHOOL............... I came through a few years ago and got a real dick. I unlocked the gun case, and started to remove the gunlocks from the rifles! He nearly had a fit, announcing LOUDLY that I was NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH THOSE WEAPONS!!!!!!! OK, fine, then he really started getting rough with my rifles, cameras other equipment, I asked him to be a little more careful with my things please. No response, actually got worse. So I am pissed now and announce to him that those rifles in that case cost more than he makes in 6 months, and that if he put a mark on them we were going to see his Supervisor then and there and he would be liable for damages on a personal basis! This pissed him off a right good bit, he tossed everything back in and sent me on my way. Several times coming into Atlanta they send you to a waiting area, there may be 10 or so of the lousy bastards playing cards or something on the computer! People are coming in, crowding up.... None of the bastards make a move to do anything, there for 30 minutes and they won't lift a hand....... I am not a patient individual, and spent 15+ hours on the airplane, I am not in the mood for lazy ass useless government employees standing around doing nothing. I ask as politely as I can when someone is going to do something??? "Sir, Have a Seat".... "NO, I will not have a seat thank you, been sitting for 15+ hours, and I won't take a Seat"............ They pay you no attention and after a bit they decide to start checking firearms........ This has happened a few times. Last year coming into Atlanta they changed up a bit, had you wait in line outside a room, then go in the room, check the guns and you leave, so it was some better than before....... Coming into LA last year from Australia, I went over where directed for Customs to check the rifles. No one else is around, and I am about 50-60 feet from 5-6 Customs guys, I wave, get one to pay some attention, and he motions for me to come up. Younger chap, maybe 35 or so. He checks the guns, everything is good, I close up, he takes 4457 to his computer and sits down.... OK, few minutes goes by, I say.... "Excuse me", he says "Yes"..... Mind if I ask you exactly what you are doing? A little on the harsh side states he is checking to see if the rifles are stolen...... OK fine, yeah right, I am going to try and bring stolen rifles through, sure thing... What a joke..... I never said that of course, but after a few more minutes I asked "Do you keep a permanent record of this".... Now he is not happy, states "No, take a seat sir" Now I am not sure why they all want you to take a seat??? I state... No thank you, I will not be seated, I have been seated on a long flight from Australia, and I am just not in the mood to take a seat! He turns, continues on for a few minutes, finishes FINALLY and returns my 4457..... I say this.... Thank you very much, have a nice Day! Honest to god, my exact words! He states "It's too late for that"... I ask "What do you mean" He says "My day is Ruined".... I actually chuckle at this and tell him "Pal, if it ruined your day because I asked you a question, then maybe you are just a little too Sensitive, and have a good day anyway"...... One time coming into LA again, very nice Customs guy, little older. Checked my rifles and would not give my 4457 back to me, stating that they are supposed to keep those! I tell him very nicely that this is not correct, the 4457 is mine for life, I am to keep it. He says NO.... I say please go get your supervisor for me. Very nicely does so, he takes a walk, comes back in about 5 minutes and apologizes for his mistake, stating that I was correct, gave me my 4457 back and have a nice day..... He was a nice guy, just did not know his job.... Many of them don't know their damned jobs! My customs agent here is actually a friend of mine. Whenever I need 4457s done, he comes by and stamps and signs off on them. Then we go to the range and do some shooting..... I needed two 4457s done for this upcoming trip, new rifles. My guy could not come out, but I met him yesterday afternoon in town, he stamped, signed and we went about our business.... Travel is getting to be such a hassle I am getting very worn down with it............... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I may have just been lucky but in 6 trips through Atlanta Customs I have never had a problem. Agents have been courteous and responsive and just done their job. Only rifles and scopes were checked against the form. I did run into a jerk at the firearms re-check station though... He asked me to open the gun case then yelled at me about not touching ANYTHING in the case,even though I tried to explain my concern. More yelling... It appeared it had (somehow) been opened. (Guns and other items were not as I had packed them In Namibia and I was concerned about damage in Frankfurt). On arrival in Albuquerque I called a Del;ta agent over to witness me open the case to check for damage. Thankfully guns were OK but I was really pissed at the airport employee in Atlanta. | |||
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Well, I simply must shed some new light on this subject, concerning my return to Atlanta a few weeks ago...... For 10+ years now, my above statement has held true 100%...... Until this last trip through Atlanta..... Last year Customs changed up a bit on their rifle checks... They have a small glass room just off the side of baggage claim now that rifles are brought directly to, and later checked by Customs.... I went through this last year, and just so happened to be at the front of the line, so got out much faster.... Those guys were not friendly, but not a problem either...... This year we tried to make a plan to get me in the front of the line again, but it was not to be. Fact is, I was dead last, after waiting 5 minutes or so I knew I was going to be there for well over an hour anyway. Much to my surprise, once the 3 Custom guys got started, it went very fast, in a total of 15 minutes of waiting, I was in the room with 3 very courteous, respectful Customs Agents!!!! I was astounded to say the least, because I always have an issue with these people for the last 10+ years!!!!! They were so good, and well behaved I had to comment to them about how horrible the experience has been for hunters in years past, and some of the problems, to which they shook their heads and stated they understood. Again, amazing. During this conversation I told them point blank how much I appreciated their professionalism, and how we as hunters deserved nothing less, and how pleased I was to be back in my own country and not being treated like a criminal....... I think they appreciate the praise, I shook each of their hands and went about my business, a total of 20 minutes or so maximum from standing in line to walking out the door!!!!!! Really a good bunch of chaps! Now trying to leave out the area to recheck bags, another line with Customs Agents. They asked about my hunting boots, and I told them I had given them away and did not have any. True, I had given my boots to the tracker as I always do. I don't need the aggravation and weight! He made me get in line for boot check anyway, even though I told him again I had no boots. Crap, this line was not moving at ALL....... Now I was stuck..... Low and behold, one of the Rifle Check Customs guys came right by me, looked at me, and said what am I doing in this line? I told him about the boots, and how I did not have any. He said "Come with me, you do not need to be here in this line"..... I did, he walked to to the Customs clearing, and out I go! Again, I thanked him and could not believe my good fortune! All I can do is hope that as much as all of us has complained about their horrible behavior, maybe word has reached the higher ups in Customs and just maybe they are trying a different tactic???????? Well, I am not convinced of this completely, I tend to believe I just got lucky and got 3 decent chaps for a major change in Atlanta..... But one can hope I suppose...... For 10+ years I have seen nothing but crap out of our Customs guys, worst in the world, 2 bit nothing pricks! But, I have to say, this last entry was a far different experience, and just could not have gone smoother, or better......... Or could not have been more respectful and courteous....... Let's hope these three chaps stay on the job specifically for all our sakes............ Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I have yet to have a dismal dealing with the Customs people coming back into the country. (Knock on wood) And this year, after having gotten the Global Entry card, clearing customs was an absolute breeze. Using a takedown Tuffpak case, I guess they didn't realize that I was carrying firearms and didn't even deal with customs in Chicago. I had to reclaim my luggage in Chicago before getting it aboard my connecting flight and they didn't even want to see me. Since the self check in kiosk didn't put an "X" on my paper, they just waived me through. For us that travel every time we get the chance, the Global Entry is the best 100 bucks I have spent in quite a while. | |||
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Plus 100 on Global Entry! I have entered with firearms via Miami, Atlanta, NYC, SF and other Points of Entry. I cannot remember any major problems but did have an asshole agent a few years ago who was fixing to make me miss my connection. I placed my Global Entry card in the plastic envelope they had for I.D. and 4457s. It got me to the front of the firearms line! BTW, he was very pleased when he found the bolts removed from my rifles. He said they had 3 loaded firearms that week. Last year I was very tired and cranky and told the Supervisor I didn't appreciate the firearms inspection when I presented all the correct paperwork and I.D. - did they think I was returning with a stolen or illegal weapon? I got a rather apologetic answer about the we are just doing our job. If that's the case then how about checking all those foreign made cameras, wrist watches, etc, etc. that folks bring in? I fail to see why firearms must be checked so fastidiously while other items are completely ignored. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Not to mention that you are automatically enrolled in TSA Pre-Check. Last several flights I have been on it has been a blessing to have pre 9/11 security procedures being applied to me. | |||
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I traveled through Atlanta last month coming back from Zim. The only hold up I had was the fact there were about 15 hunters clearing their rifles at the same time. They were courteous if matter of factly but no anti-hunter banter. They did spray my boots but this happened in Chicago on my last trip. Really can't complain too much. Travel of any kind is a pain but I can't wait until my next trip!! John | |||
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I am not from the US & I am going to Zimbabwe via Joburg from NZ for the first time in Sept - my first international travel with guns. I am glad I read this thread right through. My initial reactions were of anger and indignation. Then my stomach knotted up as I realised that I could get harassed and victimised with no recourse to fair treatment! Then I read Michaels last post about the changes .... Now I know that I just have to ride the waves if I do get stuck in any country .... Keep my mouth shut ans say "yes sir ...."! It is going to be hard...  On another matter - I traveled to the US twice in the last 10 years. As a Kiwi, I did not need a Visa then. But as I was going on business for a month, I went through the process of getting a business visa (B1? or is it B2?) that is valid for 15 or 20 years and permits me to conduct business in the US. The immigration officer at LAX looked at my papers and asked why I took a Business visa when I did not need one for a visit! I explained that I wanted to be sure I was not violating any laws if I managed to get a business deal that earned me money. I thought he looked bemused. I still haven't figured out why he asked that question?? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Retured earlier this week from a buffalo hunt in Australia. Cleared customs in Dallas without issue. Very nice and knowledgable customs agent. On an interesting note, he asked to see my 4457 and then checked a database for a match. So, for those wondering if your 4457 data is kept on file… the answer would be a resounding yes. This same procedure was performed twice earlier this year as I returned to the US from British Columbia. Safari James USMC DRSS | |||
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Cleared ATL last thursday,the officer was cool, we joked about Duck Dynasty and talked about hunting. He checked my 4457 very quickly and sent me off to have my shoes cleaned. I have cleared ATL 10 times without a hitch. I am global entry, maybe that helps. Now, Miami, I was threatened with detention etc by thin skinned TSA rent a cop. My son pulled me out of the conversation before it got really ugly. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Funny - I have almost the same experience. ATL: good (and I'm not global entry). Miami: awful. | |||
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Funny, I though Miami was the best immigration experience of my life. All automated. Just my thoughts; We all seem to agree that a gun and a badge can strain these guys with some authority. That said, why not be as pleasant as possible, not looking for a confrontation. Overlook the BS and just try to get out of immigration as quickly as is possible. If you question their authority, break simple rules or otherwise bring attention to yourself, you have, well…brought attention to yourself. I have come to the conclusion that with the gigantic bureaucratic behemoth we have, silence is golden. Do you (generic you) expect to win? get an apology? Just be glad you got your stuff, it isn't broken and go home. Some of our customs areas are like third world airports. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Just to add a little to the mix. I went out to Bush Intercontinental Airport this afternoon in Houston to help a friend with a rifle problem. When he came back from Zim a week ago, his rifles did not arrive with him but arrived several days later. When the rifles showed up Air France and Customs could not (would not?) release the rifles since the case needed to be opened and checked. Since the fellow lives about 4 hours from Houston, that is a problem. I had him send me a letter authorizing me to claim the rifles, copies of his 4457 forms, a copy of his passport and the baggage claim ticket along with the key to his Tuff Pak. Then I showed up at the Air France counter and told them I was there to get the rifles. The folks at Air France and Customs could not have been more cooperative. It took a little time but I left with the rifles and he did not have to make a long round trip to Houston. I think it comes down to two things (i) being patient, friendly, respectful and engaging with the agent, and (ii) more than anything, who you end up with as the agent. Plenty of horror stories with Customs for sure, but today was not one of them. Mike | |||
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Maybe they're getting a little better because they're glad they're not Border Patrol. | |||
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Just got back from Zimbabwe last Sunday Went through Customs in SF, My Rifle was checked with the original copy of the 4457 bags exrayed and some items were physically checked . The whole posses was done in a timely professional respectful manner. AS many times as not when coming back customs just asks me if I have a 4457 without physically checking the gun. and not opening my bag.Coming through Atlanta i have detected a attitude in one of their custom officers but nothing that was to the point where I felt I had to report it. | |||
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I have voiced the same complaint. I don't get it. I have been told guns kill people but cameras don't. | |||
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