Does anyone know what happens with your newly required ITN number when you fly on your way to Africa from a U.S. Airport which has only the TSA open when your flight departs? Heading to Atlanta on Delta & to Johannesburg then Zimbabwe.

Dunno, but I'm heading to j'burg in a month, with a Ruger #1 and a S&W 500, leaving from Fort Myers, FL. Should be interesting. I'll stay in touch.

I am out next Thursday, this is truly amazing. I shall let you know how things go with this ordeal.

I find it strange that the SCI, NRA, DSC does not have their staff and long list of Congress Men and Women doing something to create an amendment to this conundrum. It is as if they do not care or they are powerless.

First off, best of luck on your hunt and trying to comply with these new regulations.

On SCI's website is an update of a meeting they had with CBP which said something to the effect of you need to have CBP do the inspection from your international departure point (In your case Atlanta).

I will be flying out of San Francisco on a Sunday however the CBP office in the departures area is only open from Monday to Friday so I will be calling them to find out what to do.

I did read that but just like everything it seems that they are truly trying to break us with little obvious support from the SCI. To which we are both life members.

Well good luck Sir, we must keep each other posted on this mess.

Best of luck to you too. I'll be interested to hear how things go although with CBP not being uniform in how they're dealing with the changes it makes even other's first hand experiences of limited value.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaglav:
First off, best of luck on your hunt and trying to comply with these new regulations.

On SCI's website is an update of a meeting they had with CBP which said something to the effect of you need to have CBP do the inspection from your international departure point (In your case Atlanta).

I will be flying out of San Francisco on a Sunday however the CBP office in the departures area is only open from Monday to Friday so I will be calling them to find out what to do.

I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to work. I fly through Atlanta frequently and the only CBP areas I'm aware of are in the secured areas on concourse E and F. How do you get past security with your firearms or is there another CBP office somewhere in the airport before security? If anyone has flown through ATL recently and had to find the CBP office to comply with this requirement I would love to hear how it works.

Thanks,

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DonW28 ... I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to work. I fly through Atlanta frequently and the only CBP areas I'm aware of are in the secured areas on concourse E and F. How do you get past security with your firearms or is there another CBP office somewhere in the airport before security? If anyone has flown through ATL recently and had to find the CBP office to comply with this requirement I would love to hear how it?

Another "gotcha" in this new reg. My hunch is that you will have to physically go to the CBP Port Office adjacent to the airport at 157 Tradeport Dr. See: http://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports/atlanta

After your post on how to contact Customs in Atlanta. Then after trying a variety of the numbers I actually spoke to a Person relating to things outgoing.

The bottom line was at the "MOMENT" all one needs is the 4457.

I do have an EIN and a ITN but it appears the 4457 still works.

REMEMBER:

The government is there to help you. They care!

The third world countries appear more organized at the moment!!

Then fortunately we found out that you cannot check your guns straight through if one arrives in Atlanta with more than an 8 hour lay over. You MUST pick up your luggage guns and ammo leave the Airport and check back in four hours prior to departure. That is a TSA requirement. Remember they too are there to help you.

We found this out in time to change our departure from our local Airport to avoid the nightmare of checking the guns and luggage in twice in one day.

Not a lot of joy or assistance to the traveling public.

Those of you that have received an ITN can you please share what Schedule B # was used for the rifle?

http://www.census.gov/foreign-...ules/b/2015/c93.html

thank you

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
Those of you that have received an ITN can you please share what Schedule B # was used for the rifle?

http://www.census.gov/foreign-...ules/b/2015/c93.html

thank you

I have one and am still not sure I can answer that but if you e-mail me at: ledvm@msn.com I will send you what I have and you might be able to figure it out.

got mine today through coppersmith, took about a week. $51 and I'm ready to go!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
Those of you that have received an ITN can you please share what Schedule B # was used for the rifle?

http://www.census.gov/foreign-...ules/b/2015/c93.html

thank you

I have one and am still not sure I can answer that but if you e-mail me at: ledvm@msn.com I will send you what I have and you might be able to figure it out.

Got the email. very helpful thank you.

I see they list a double rifle as Schedule B # 9303.30.8017

Which is the same as another member on the board had on his shipment confirmation. I'm just wondering where that is found in the list. I simply do not see it.

If anyone else cares to share info from their ITN (shipment confirmation) please send me a PM. Just trying to compile info so we can all be on the same page. thanks

First, sorry for the length of this post but wanted to post as many details as possible to answer potential questions.

As mentioned previously I will be flying out of San Francisco on a Sunday afternoon which is outside of the normal CBP hours on the departure side of the airport.

I called CBP's San Francisco office this morning and waded through their automated phone menu which is obviously set up for customs brokers rather than the general public (About as user friendly as an electric chair for the average guy in the street).

At the end of the day I got a different number to call that connected me directly with the San Francisco Airport CBP office.

After going through their automated phone menu I finally pushed "0" and immediately got a live person on the other end.

I informed the person of the issue which is basically I'm flying out on a Sunday when the normal office is closed and the only CBP personnel are in the Arrivals area while I will be in the Departures area and I will be departing with a firearm and ammunition.

The person I spoke with was polite and obviously aware of the firearms situation as he started talking about the AES Direct system. I quickly let him know that I was aware of the AES procedures and need for an ITN but my concern was the requirement for CBP to inspect the articles in question prior to departure.

The Customs person let me know that their procedure was for me to go down to the International Arrivals area and call a specific number and extension (Which he gave me) about an hour before my normal check in.

Once I'd called he said that I would be escorted to the CBP area in the Arrival's Hall where the firearm and ammo would be inspected and after which I would need to walk up to the Departures area and check in as normal.

Hope this is helpful for some. Based on my conversation it seems that the protocol is to contact the CBP office from which you will be departing and arrange for the inspection.

Based on other posts there still seems to be wide variance in what CBP is telling people although I have to say that I was happy in the San Francisco Airport CBP being obviously aware of the situation and having a procedure in place.

Specifically to GOB: I would contact CBP in Atlanta and go through the same procedure as I did.

HI,

Interesting I just did the same procedure in Atlanta and was told that they have not altered their system at all at the moment. They good old 4457 form is all I require.

I do have the EIN and the ITN. I was also advised that when I check on locally as long as I have less that 8 hours between arrival in Atlanta to when I Depart that I check everything locally and need do nothing in Atlanta, I am good to go.

We also work with a Meet and Greet Company in SA and I spoke with them today and was advised that EVERYONE they checked into SA only had the 4457 when the left the USA.

Amazing??

Hopefully there shall be a working plan in place where one need not fear doing something improper.

Cheers,

Glenn 570-864-3242

Here's my question: What if I fly from an airport with no CBP? My connecting flights do not have enough time for "inspection" at one of those stops...What then? In my case I fly from Bismarck, ND (no CBP) to Minnepolis, MN (short connection but is my International departure point) to Vancouver and on to the Yukon. I do have about 8 hours in Vancouver but my layover in MN is short...Are they expecting me to only check my firearm to MN, go get it, find a CBP office, get it inspected, check the gun back in and get to my departure on time? WTF.

Yes, that's my question as well. When we leave on our trip to Zim (not until next year, but still) we will leave from Madison, Wisconsin, probably connect in Chicago with a flight to an east coast airport(Kennedy, Dulles or Atlanta) and then to Jo-berg. There is no customs office in Madison. There are in the other airports. Do we go through this rigamarole in ORD, or later??

All I can do is share what's happening to me right today. Started my trek to Namibia, Midland-Dallas-Atlanta- Joburg. Checked in rifle, agent looked at 4457 and told me to lock it up and take it to TSA, they scanned it, and off I went. It was checked all the way through to Joburg, and I know my bags and rifle are here in Atlanta now. No change from last year for now.

I have my ITN Justin case . Good luck all.

Sorry but this situation shall undoubtably change in the next year many times.

It is the governmen, they are there to help you or are they??

Here's an interesting find from the SCI Website regarding my question above:

"The Importance of Advance Planning: An individual can complete his or her AES filing as early as 120 days in advance of his or her trip. By completing the AES registration, the hunter/shooter obtains the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) that he or she will need to present, along with his or her firearms and ammunition, for inspection to a CBP officer at the airport of departure. For those who are starting their travel at airports without CBP offices, the inspection will need to take place at the airport (involved in the travel) where a CBP office is located. Hunters/shooters should make every effort to arrange for adequate time (e.g. several hours) before or between flights to fulfill this inspection requirement. Ignorance of the procedures or avoidable failure to budget adequate time for the inspection will not encourage CBP personnel to assist with an expeditious inspection process."

So, if your departing airport doesn't have cbp, you have to make plans to get inspected on a layover at an airport that does? WTF So, you'll have to check your gear to your destination, but check your firearm to the first place there is CBP so there can be an inspection on a layover? WTF. Very convenient. Unbelievable.

Don't forget about the ammo transported in a separate checked bag. Since the ammo round count is declared on the CBP declaration wouldn't the ammo need to be visually inspected as well as the firearm necessitating the checked bag to be retrieved along with the rifle case? Was this inspection scheme really thought through or just implemented to create an enormous hassle and roadblock for citizens travelling with firearms. Our founding fathers would be so proud of what we have become.
Cheers

It is 1027 Hrs. 23 April 2015

We are sat at our gate in A small PA airport on our way to Detroit. On to Atlanta then on to Johannesburg. LUGGAGE CHECKED STRAIGHT THROUGH.

There was NO - ZERO - mention of 4475, EIN, OR ITN NUMBERS. NO mention of Ammunition. The Delta agents examined my two rifles in the Tuff Pak, checked that they were empty. The key was left in the Tuff Pak which was taken to TSA where an agent examined the rifles, returned with my key saying, "thank you, you are good to go".

We do have the EIN and the ITN numbers but NO ONE asked for anything. There has been NO mention of anything, bullet counting or examination.

This is the way it goes for ATLANTA at the moment today the 23 rd of April 2015.

quote:

Originally posted by BC3:
Don't forget about the ammo transported in a separate checked bag. Since the ammo round count is declared on the CBP declaration wouldn't the ammo need to be visually inspected as well as the firearm necessitating the checked bag to be retrieved along with the rifle case? Was this inspection scheme really thought through or just implemented to create an enormous hassle and roadblock for citizens travelling with firearms. Our founding fathers would be so proud of what we have become.
Cheers

Yes, you are correct, the bag with the ammo will also need to be inspected. I have another issue now. My arrival/departure to my "last point of departure" from the US is early am, before the Customs office is even open. Now what? Lots of questions/issues at this point. For my sheep hunt in August, I may just be a "bowhunter" with the guides rifle as a "back up"...

Thanks for the update GOB and best of luck on your hunt.

According to a post in another section, the African hunting section, DHS has lifted this requirement and sent out memo's to all of the CBP offices.
See Larryshores' post for further info.

In case anyone missed it on the other thread...Here it is: (Hoeven is the ND Republican Congressman)



Apr 23 2015 Hoeven: U.S. Hunters No Longer Required to Register With IRS to Take Personal Firearms on International Hunts


Senator Secures CBP's Commitment to Return to Previous Travel Forms


WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator John Hoeven, chairman of the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Committee, today announced that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will no longer require U.S hunters traveling internationally to obtain an IRS identification number in order to bring personal weapons on hunting trips outside the U.S. At a meeting early Wednesday with U.S. CBP Commissioner R. Gil Kerlikowske, Hoeven secured a commitment from the agency to return to the paper process used by international hunters for years, while updates are made to the automated reporting system for exporting weapons. Kurlekowske said the agency’s web site would be updated later today. “Hunters should not have to register as a business with the IRS in order to bring their weapons and ammunition on international hunting trips,” said Hoeven. “This is an unnecessary and burdensome requirement on law-abiding citizens. We appreciate that CBP has recognized this and will return to their original forms for international hunters, while they update their automated system to recognize the difference between a commercial exporter and a sportsman traveling on a hunting trip to Canada or another country.” CBP recently began enforcing regulatory changes from 2012 requiring U.S. hunters to comply with commercial export requirements when transporting firearms outside the U.S. for personal use. Under these requirements, in order for a U.S. hunter to take personal weapons to another country temporarily, the individual would have to register the weapon in the Automated Export System (AES) and provide a transaction number to CBP. The AES is designed for commercial exporters and requires all users to obtain an Employer Identification Number (EIN) from the IRS in order to access the system. CBP has acknowledged that forcing hunters to obtain an EIN is not appropriate. Under the agreement reached this week, the agency will allow international hunters to use the original paper process while CBP works with the Department of State on an appropriate long-term solution. http://www.hoeven.senate.gov/p...be-9c15-b5fb71a76999

GREAT news! I was getting REALLY worked up about this ahead of my Zim trip on May 24th. Make no mistake, however, this is a TEMPORARY REPRIEVE. They will be back...

OK, here is my question. I have been trying to get an answer to this question since all of this started to not much avail. Do I just show up at the Houston airport with a filled out, unsigned 4457? Or, do I need to go to the CBP office in Houston prior to my trip and have them pre-check my guns first? Gracy says they need to have a 4457 signed by the CBP 5 weeks prior to my departure to clear my guns? It is my first ride over there and I am still somewhat confused by this whole process???

It is my understanding that you have to have a signed 4457 before you depart. You don't show anyone in the US the 4457 until you return ( customs). It is my understanding you can get it signed on the day of departure never heard that it has to be 5 weeks ahead of time.

Have a great time on your trip

Hello,

All one needs is a photocopy of your 4457, it is good forever. Have used the same photocopy for 10 years for everything. There is only one copy and it is issued to you.

Arrived in Johannesburg from Atlanta Yesterday was met by Deirdre Mathews owner of Come-2-Africa with the SAP FORM filled in and took less than 5 minutes to zip through the Police check. Luggage loaded and 15 minutes later we were in a fantastic Guest House where we are spending a couple days on a tour Deirdre has arranged then on to Harare where we shall be picked up by Tanya Blake & Dean Kendall who shall drive us off for 21 days hunting.

If you need assistance in Africa contact Deirdre at www.come-2-Africa.com, deirdre@come-2-Africa.com, cel: 0027835514033. This young lady can make anything happen in Africa!


Glenn

Oikierifleman, I would recommend the following:

Go to the government website and find the location of the nearest customs office.

Call them ,tell them what you want to do and schedule a time to bring your rifle in.

After the 4457 is completed make some high quality copies (having one notarized is optional but sometimes helpful). Have the original and some copies laminated.

Keep one in your gun case 'just in case'.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by 4-5-0:
Oikierifleman, I would recommend the following:

Go to the government website and find the location of the nearest customs office.

Call them ,tell them what you want to do and schedule a time to bring your rifle in.

After the 4457 is completed make some high quality copies (having one notarized is optional but sometimes helpful). Have the original and some copies laminated.

Keep one in your gun case 'just in case'.

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
+1

quote:

Originally posted by 4-5-0:
Oikierifleman, I would recommend the following:

Go to the government website and find the location of the nearest customs office.

Call them ,tell them what you want to do and schedule a time to bring your rifle in.

After the 4457 is completed make some high quality copies (having one notarized is optional but sometimes helpful). Have the original and some copies laminated.

Keep one in your gun case 'just in case'.

+2

.

Just talked to my local CBP and was told that even though I have the 4457, the airport check is still requiring the ITN number. When I mentioned that the website says we are using the old 4457 system, her replied I don't know about that. WTH!

I am still getting the 4457, but will I get screwed at the airport?

Poochuss,
It might well be worth a call to her supervisor to get the necessary information disseminated to her.
Otherwise, if that is the port you are flying out of, and she is the one responsible for letting you out and in, if she is demanding an ITN, I would have one.

Spent an hour on the phone with three different people. Finally got it worked out when the Claims person called the office here and explained to them the temp requirements. Now just have to hope nothing changes till after our hunt in June. We leave June 1.

I've heard they are going back to the old system (4457's) until further notice. Couldn't be more confusing at this point.

Just came back thru Dulles, and all they wanted to see was my 4457's.. no hassle at all.

Returned from RSA last night. All the folks at Atlanta wanted to see was my 4457. No hassles in that regard. Customs was time consuming and overly difficult, though.
Got a lion and a Hartman's zebra. Yeah, it was a fenced hunt. Yeah, walked about a half inch of leather off my boot soles. It was a hard, tough, thorn-filled hunt.

But, a good one.

After getting all my 4457's done yesterday at the customs office in Amarillo, I believe I'll still apply for an ITN just in case they implements the rules again while I'm gone