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It seems the days when airlines had to accept tickets purchased on their websites at fares that were incorrectly posted are over. Buyer beware! British Airways aids customers who booked bogus fares to India By: Michael Fabey December 02, 2009 British Airways, with a little prodding from the U.S. Transportation Department, will compensate consumers for cancellation penalties and other expenses incurred due to the carrier’s erroneous offer of $40 fares between the U.S. and India. The deal was much too good to be true; the lowest U.S.-India fare being offered by British Airways prior to the mistaken ad, not including taxes, was about $750. British Airways posted the erroneous fare for a few minutes on its website on the evening of Oct. 12. But the wrong fare remained on the websites of some online travel agencies for close to two hours. About 2,200 passengers took advantage of the offer. British Airways canceled the bookings of all passengers who purchased the $40 tickets and offered all affected passengers a travel voucher valued at $300. Then the U.S. DOT got involved. Last week, the DOT said British Airways verbally agreed to reimburse passengers for their expenses resulting from having relied on the erroneous $40 fare. These could include fees for canceling flights, hotels and rental cars. British Airways agreed to provide notice of its offer on its website. "We are pleased to see that British Airways has accepted responsibility for the fares it published," DOT Secretary Ray LaHood said. | ||
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do you think SAA would have responded the same way, even with DOT prodding?? given my personal experience with them, i SERIOUSLY doubt it. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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Of course, there are hazards in booking with a travel agent as well, right Steve? http://forums.accuratereloadin...=711103149#711103149 You were, after all, the rep for Gracy Travel who offered me $290 as a "final settlement" for the loss of a full day's holiday for me and my family. | |||
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Do tell. I'll keep that in mind for future travel bookings. Thanks.  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by WannabeBwana: Of course, there are hazards in booking with a travel agent as well, right Steve? http://forums.accuratereloadin...=711103149#711103149 For the record let it be known that I was working for the travel agency in question at the time and I was tasked in handling the problem you had - but at no time was I involved in the handling of your reservation. As to what was or wasn't paid to you - that is between you and the agency in question, and as I no longer work for that agency I am not at liberty to discuss this here! | |||
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For the record, you didn't handle my problem at all, Steve. You handled your employer's problem by making excuses and offering me a pittance for the problems your employer caused. Are you going to go so far out on a limb as to say you would have handled it differently through your own agency?  | |||
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Wannabe, Jeez, let it rest, we all heard you the first dozen or so times you ranted on this. It is what it is. From your own recounting of your safari it would seem that you were actually saved one day of a miserable trip! In spite of your story, Gracy [and Kathi and the other speciality travel agents] have thousands of well satisfied customers, and yes, I am one of them.  | |||
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In all my years of going t hunting to Africa, the travel agent was never, repeat never, had to do anything more than book our tickets. We had to make all the arrangement for the passage of our firearms. I have no idea how it is done in the US though. | |||
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What about the OLD time worn saying, "If It Sounds To Good To Be True, It Is". Everyone is looking at a way to save a little $$$ and most will jump on something like those airfares, knowing full well that normally, even reduced fares for such flights are hundreds of dollars more than what is listed in some ad. Booking On Line, Over The Phone, thru Snail Mail, whatever / however, has its risks and pitfalls. Also, from experience, too many folks put their brain in neutral when they are presented with the idea, no matter how ludicrous, that they can save hundreds, perhaps thousands of $$$$ on something such as air fares, when all they have to do is check out a few other carriers and see what they are charging. $40.00 from Dallas to Houston or San Antonio is one thing, $40.00 from the U.S. to India, Get Real. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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LH, is one day of your vacation worth $290 to you? Is one day of a $25,000 trip worth $290 to you? I'm glad you've gotten your money's worth. Maybe you'll sing a different tune some time. And Yes, they are "specialty travel agents". That's why we book with them, and that's why they need to be held to a higher standard than a do-it-yourself online booking. Maybe I am but if my continued posting causes Gracy or Steve (Yes, you're gonna wear this, too) to lose even a single fare, then I'm going to keep on keeping on. There are new people coming to this board all the time, and they need to know who they're dealing with.Saeed, I was and did take responsibility for my firearms. Gracy Travel didn't notify the airlines that I was travelling with firearms, which is the responsibility of the person actually inputting the reservation into the computer. They didn't and are 100% responsible. | |||
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 Whatever. One must wonder if there isn't more to this story than your vitriol. But, one of the great things about Accurate Reloading is the "Ignore List". You can say almost anything here - but we do not have to see it anymore. | |||
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One wonders why you wouldn't accept his version, especially after Gracy offered to reimburse him, even if the amount was an insult. I was communicating with wannabeebwana during the initial part of this fuck up and I can attest that his version is 100% accurate. Whether he should have known or done more to notify the airline is another question but that is why you use "specialty" travel agents. Ignore me too, because you obviously prefer to hear a sanitized version of reality. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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We have a different system here, and it does not involve the travel agent at all. The firearms are considered the responssibility of the passenger. Once the seats are confirmed, we have to notify the airline with the flight number and booking confirmation. We have to give them the serial numbers and calibers of the rifles, as well as the quantity of the ammunition. They inform the police, and obain the necessary permits. | |||
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Gatogordo, My point was that I, and likely others, heard him the first of numerous times he ranted about Gracy, and am over it. I had forgotten about the ignore function which I have only used for the likes of D99 and Shootaway. And now I don't have to read Wannabe's tale again either! It isn't so much that I don't accept his version, it is so just so much out of sync with everything else we hear about Gracy ,and my experiences, I just wonder if there isn't more to it. | |||
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Well, the parties to this fiasco are all members here, and they're welcome to give their version - though, it seems we've now heard the Nuremburg defence from Steve. Alternatively, since I haven't received a letter from anyone's lawyer threatening me with libel, I assume they can't dispute my statements.
Best check your GPS. You're lost. This isn't the ARPF!   Maybe I haven't changed anyone's mind about Gracy, but I'll bet it's a now common occurence for a client to ask their rep at Gracy Travel "Did you check off the box telling the airline that I'll have firearms?" Must really suck to be constantly reminded of your incompetence!  | |||
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Don't know if you can see this, buddy, but if Gracy's rep is so squeaky clean, you have to wonder why such a reputable company would flat out refuse to adequately compensate a client for a major screw-up. | |||
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 My first contact with Debbie Gracy about this was the week after we returned. I know that Rita was making some inquiries for us. Perhaps she's the "third person" you refer to. It would also explain why Gracy Travel offered me $290, which just happened to be the cost of one daily rate for myself and my wife/observer (the kids were comp'd).AFA whatever stories you heard, I looked for your hunt report, and see you haven't filed one. Your posts suggest you were booked with Dirk in Sept. 2006, so you were two years ahead of me. Having said that, I do wonder what a reputable company would be doing apparently gossiping about a client to another client? | |||
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WannabeBwana: I am confused about one thing...did you fly B class both ways? It appears that you paid more for the airfare than the whole trip. The fact that you were plunking down $15K for 4 B class seats and then squaking about one day of hunting is kind of baffling to me. | |||
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I have a person like this here in my town... I worked as a carpenter on a house,paid employee of the contractor.Did my job,to the best of my abilities,got paid,went home each night.Homeowner fell into a dispute with the contractor... I went on to start my own buisness,and she has gone around town bad mouthing me(and the contractor). I just did my job as was told as an employee. But some people are just vindictive whiners.... Thank you for the ignore feature. | |||
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Isn't this "Ignore" feature cool? It's as if you can see their lips moving but you can not hear them! Awesome. | |||
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Very nice.... I would add by your logic,don't even think to stay at Afton Guest House if going through SA/JOH,one of Gracy's employees parents owns it. | |||
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AZ, the total airfare for economy class was $13,000. The KLM manager bumped us to B class for the first leg of the trip, because she knew we'd been delayed a day due to the screwup by Gracy. You being in the "bizness", maybe losing a day's hunting is no big deal for you. Most of us don't have that luxury. AFA any of my detractors: If you folks are content to do business with people who don't have the integrity to make things right, after they've admitted they were wrong, that's your choice. OTOH, the courts agree with me: http://www.classactionlitigati...rary/travelagent.htm Recoverable Damages The damages which a consumer may recover from a travel agent for breach of contract, negligence, fraud or violation of a Consumer Protection Statute will depend upon the nature of the injuries sustained. In non-physical injury cases recoverable should include the value of the components of the vacation not delivered, compensation for discomfort, annoyance and harassment and special damages for " loss of what was to have been a pleasant week " [ Touhey v. Trans National Travel86 ( $25,000 in special damages awarded )], or loss of " a refreshing, memorable vacation " [ Vick v. National Airlines87 ( $2,500 each for couple who suffered from missed flight )] or the " intangible pleasure of a 24 hour vacation day " [ Semrod v. Mexicana Airlines88 ( $3,000 awarded for loss of one vacation day )] or the loss of a planned vacation [ Pelegrini v. Landmark Travel Group89 ( $250 awarded for loss of planned vacation )] . The courts don't consider whether there's a pattern, or whether 99.9999% of their clients are satisfied. They consider that the agent fucked up in that particular case, and is liable. Then again, maybe the law is just for "whiners".  | |||
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Back to the original issue for a moment: It seems that the "mistake" was only up on the BA website momentarily, so the preponderance of misbookings came through TRAVEL AGENTS. Am I misreading this, or does it not, on its face, argue against using a travel agency? I have no dog in the fight and will use a travel agent if it appears advantageous, but I am scratching my head over why an agent would post a subject that appears to place much blame on travel agents? | |||
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I think "online" is the operative word and I would think this meant sites like Expedia, Travelocity, etc., not actual agencies with individual agents handling bookings. JMO | |||
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You are absolutely correct - the airline posted the fare which the online agencys websites picked up and then offered for sale. No individual agent actually handled the reservation. | |||
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I pay for all of my hunts. Just ask Atcheson's or Wendell. So let me get this straight...you got bumped up to B class for 4 people and you think you are getting screwed? Do you know what those B class seats are worth? How does that measure in your pleasure calculus? You can lose days of hunting for all kinds or reasons. If losing one day is catastrophic, I have some advice: don't ever hunt in Alaska. But wait, you live in Canada. I hunted northern BC in 2007. I spent the first FIVE days of a ten day hunt in a hotel room due to weather. Was I pissed? Hell yes. But I made the most of the rest of the hunt and shot a very nice moose. One more question...did you buy trip insurance? | |||
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AZOW, my point wasn't whether or not you pay for your hunts. It's that you likely get to hunt more than the average person (otherwise, what would you write about), so losing a day isn't as big an issue as for someone who has limited time. I'm a bit confused that you would equate natural events like the weather with the incompetence of an apparently intelligent human. I'm not demanding compensation from the Weather Man! Are you further suggesting that because I got great customer service from one company, that I should just shrug my shoulders at horrendous customer service from another? What does Gracy offer that most any other travel agent doesn't? I'm going to suggest that the single most important thing is the knowledge and understanding of the rules for transporting firearms country to country via airlines. That's the thing that makes them a "specialty travel agent", and that's the thing that they were hired to do and didn't do properly, which cost me a day of vacation and a day of hunting. And you don't think that them failing to fulfil the single most important part of our contract is a big deal? No, I didn't buy trip insurance. I was naive enough to believe that if I dealt with "reputable professionals", my risk was low. I'll certainly know better next time. | |||
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WannabeBwana: I have never used a travel agent. Frankly, I don't what value they provide, but I admit I have not been thru JNB lately; my last three trips have been to Tanz via AMS and that is pretty simple to do. Trust me, my hunting time is just as valuable as yours. I write because I like to. Sorry you had a bad time, but getting upgraded to B class is very unusual unless you are Platinum and the plane is full. To get 4 seats there is especially lucky. You got an exceptional deal there, and all things considered, you came out okay. But your are right about the issue of exceptional service not obviating bad service from another provider. You are do have a point there. Been in your shoes on that one... | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter: You can lose days of hunting for all kinds or reasons. If losing one day is catastrophic, I have some advice: don't ever hunt in Alaska. That is sooo true! LOL I've spent days and nights in hotels and tents b/c of weather there. I did find the hotels to be a little better...  As far as Gracy Travel, I used them once to go to CAR on a last minute hunt. When I say last minute I mean in less than a week's notice. They were able to get all of my passport, visa and menagerie of other documents done in record time. Spent two weeks there and got back without a hitch. They were great. | |||
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Hunting is a sport of uncertainty. There is very little you can control and in a way, makes it more exciting. The very first thing I tell someone going to Africa for the first time, "Don't expect everything to go as planned, keep an open mind and make the best out of any negatives." I can only offer one tidbit of advice to Wannabe. "Don't hunt Africa if you expect everything to happen as planned". Whether the fault lies in the US of Africa, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong. On my last trip, I went with a guy named Murphy and everything went off without a hitch, how's that for defying the odds??? | |||
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The fatalism of the responses here is astounding. Why confine it to the US and Africa? Why not just say "If you plan on taking a vacation anywhere in the world, expect a fuck-up, because travel agents, outfitters and airlines are unaccountable." Fact: It was not "Africa" that fucked up my trip. It was the "first world" travel agent, airlines, and to some extent, the outfitter. I said from the start, I couldn't and didn't expect to control the weather and hunting ie. seeing and having an opportunity to shoot animals. The rest of the crap that went down was under the control of "professionals" who failed to do their jobs to the level expected of professionals. | |||
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Wannabe--You make a valid point. If you travel anywhere in the world on any vacation, screw ups happen and happen with fair regularity. You don't get much if any relief from the airlines in most cases. In 2007 I flew to Port Elizabeth, SA from Shreveport, La on a 10 day plains game safari. Shreveport to Dallas, Dallas to Dulles, Dulles to Joberg, Joberg to Port Elizabeth. Checked the rifle--a Sharps that was central to the DVD that I was doing for my employer--in Shreveport. I couldn't use another rifle if I wanted to, as it was central to the theme of the DVD, which was why I was in Africa. When I arrived in Joberg, no rifle. Missed my flight to PE looking for it. Got to PE the next evening, still no rifle. Three days later, Air 2000--a meet and greet TRAVEL SERVICE--found the rifle and had it delivered to me in Port Elizabeth. Air 2000, in SOUTH AFRICA, located my rifle IN DALLAS, TEXAS where the AIRLINE had unloaded it to "balance the load on a 737". Did the airline offer an apology or compensation? Nope. Was it a human error? Yep. Did a human fix it? Yes again. A human travel agent, at that. I got the rifle three days late, three days gone from the 10 day safari. A third of the safari down the toilet. I simply got the rifle, and my PH and I got busy and did what we needed to do. I wound up having a wonderful trip, and a successful safari and DVD. All without even an apology from the airline that left the rifle in Dallas. People will make mistakes. That is why we have the saying "shixt happens". Humans can also fix mistakes if they want to. They usually fix mistakes for reasonable people. If you are a prick, sometimes you just have to live with it. | |||
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Easy fix; Stay home. | |||
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What was it one said about life? It's not a destination, it's a journey. First, the $40 airfare confusion is the fault of the airlines- how many times have you seen an ad for ridiculous fares? Even with a limited number of seats $39 each way from MIA to NY is a loser, but they run it often. I know why they do it, but without that sort of thing the mistakes would be obvious. BUT, that said, many of those who wanted compensation probably would not have wanted to pay if the roles were reversed - it would be unreasonable if it were their cost! Depends on whose ox is being gored! ---Travel Agents--- Some people CAN "do-it-yourself", some can't, and some don't want to or won't. Look at the postings and you'll find all three here. Meet-and-greet? Travel Agents? Car Wash? House Painters? Computer Support? Sometimes we're all three types of Can-Can't-Won't. But when we pay someone to do something we expect value and a higher standard. If you don't get it, you get upset. If I use one it's because I need the expertise and that's all I'm buying. I could have screwed up the form for free. Customer Service is not measured by how well we perform what we are supposed to do, it's how we perform when things go wrong. And that controls the events in the aftermath. In this case, reminds me of a train wreck. How one company deals with a misstep is not forgiveness for another. That the airlines upgraded the seats to B-Class upon hearing the tale of woe WAS a nice touch. But remember two things, there is no reason for that upgrade if the travel agency had not missed that part of the job they were paid for, and the B-Class seats were going with the aircraft whether there was a butt in them or not, all at minimal extra cost to them. They would not have done that if there was a fare in the seats. The value they charge for them is for someone who is willing to pay - they give out the upgrades for many, many reasons. The cost they incur is meals and beverages, and that is not thousands of dollars, even for a party of four. Like the Southwest Airlines ads, "Bags fly free" - well, "Empty seats fly free" as well. Fuel is covered by the coach fare the passenger paid, I'm hauling the weight anyway. I look at this conflict as another validation of "If you want it done right, do it yourself." Whenever I can or feel like it! Steve H NRA Benefactor Member "Most of my money I spent on reloading, hunting and shooting...the rest I just wasted." | |||
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Steve: B class international airfares are not given out like candy. They are very rare - airlines are extremely sensitive that a guy paying $4k or more for a ticket is going to get pissed if those seats are given at the whims of the gate agents, etc. Wannabe was extremely lucky to get that upgrade. | |||
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AnotherAZWriter:
Lucky indeed! It was an extremely nice gesture BY THE AIRLINE. (AND it really didn't set the airline back that much.) Problem is, I gather, that Wannabe would much rather have been on the plane as planned, in coach, on the day as planned than what happened. Certainly you're not suggesting that that upgrade in anyway lets the TA off the hook? I didn't see where the TA had any hand in arranging it, so why would it? $4K plus - you're right about that! I have one for April next year and I see now (just now checked it) where the folks booking now are going to pay $1000 more than me for the same seats in the same cabin with me. That's not too "sensitive" in my opinion. But I don't think they'll get too upset that I got mine for less, just as I don't resent the guy who bought an upgradeable coach fare for a grand less than me and moved into the front with miles. How would you know what I paid? The Wannabe seats weren't upgraded for travel the same day, might have been discretely done, making it harder to know that it was comped. But you are right - that was a nice move by the airline and he was lucky they did that... Steve H NRA Benefactor Member "Most of my money I spent on reloading, hunting and shooting...the rest I just wasted." | |||
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And when all attempts at reaching a reasonable solution fail, then sometimes you have no choice but to be a prick. | |||
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