I took everyone's advice and went to WallMart to pick up a locking cash box to transport my ammo to Namibia. None of the cash boxes would contain my 60 round blue MTM case unless I chose the largest cash box available, a box which was deep enough to contain the MTM case but far too large in width and length.

What I was thinking of doing is to rivet a common lockable hinge to my MTM case then add a key lock. Any thoughts?

Bobby B.

One potential problem seems to be that although an airline will have rules as to what is required they are often ambiguous.

Add to this that different airline employees then often interpret said rules with varying degrees of lattiute and inconsistancy, and its easy to see how the travelling shooter can get stiffed at the check-in.

As an example, I checked all the various rules and regulations and thought a metal cash box was the most likely item to pass muster.

When I got to the airline check-in, the girl consulted her copy of the airline rules which evidently said the ammo had to be in a "hard case" and she decided that meant I should have been using hardside suitcase not a softside hold-all! This was a curve ball I never expected and resulted in several minutes worry while a supervisor was found...

So getting to your question, I really would look for a metal box rather than plastic just to be extra sure...

I carried my ammo in two 20rnd flat plastic MTM boxes inside a cash box...Those flat 20rnd boxes are much easier to pack than the big 60 rnd box....

Apparently the folks at Cabelas got this figured out. I purchased two locking boxes from them and they are made of tough plastic. The boxes weigh about 2 lbs. The reason I say that is I took one into my office and weighed one box and 4 boxes of .375 Federal Premium ammo and the whole shebang weighed in at 10 lbs. The ammo was 2 lbs each and the box had to weigh 2 lbs. I checked it on an electric scale we use for our UPS shipments. These boxes come with lots of foam inside and allow you to manipulate the packages so they ship safely and quietly. I will take 80 rounds for each rifle, and meet the airline standards of 5 kilograms (11 lbs) per pasenger as my wife will put one box in her luggage. Hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
One potential problem seems to be that although an airline will have rules as to what is required they are often ambiguous.

I agree!

Anyone looking for a box, do a search in this forum for "Ammo Box". I posted a link to a site where you can buy Pelican cases in any size.

Or google "Case Club" They carry all the Pelican cases and other hard side cases. I have bought 2 Pelicans from them. Probably the best price on Pelicans.

Double protection, buy the slip top 20 round MTM cases fromMidway USA. They are the samesize as your factory box and tougher than cardboard! Big rubber band keeps the closed.

we use the shotgun tube cases from Bass Proshops-works fine for ammo transport

I've used the MTM Shotshell box (remove the choke tube case from the top) on 3 safaris without incident. Ammo fits nicely, they are light and cheap. Good luck

MTM Shotshell Case

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
One potential problem seems to be that although an airline will have rules as to what is required they are often ambiguous.

I agree!

Anyone looking for a box, do a search in this forum for "Ammo Box". I posted a link to a site where you can buy Pelican cases in any size.

Or google "Case Club" They carry all the Pelican cases and other hard side cases. I have bought 2 Pelicans from them. Probably the best price on Pelicans.

Double protection, buy the slip top 20 round MTM cases fromMidway USA. They are the samesize as your factory box and tougher than cardboard! Big rubber band keeps the closed.

+1! Pelican cases are light/tough/purpose built...and have provisions for locks.

I have been using metal cash boxes for some time now but apparently metal is not allowed under the "explosives" law. So I recently bought an MTM lockable survivor dry box.

Do the airlines actually require ammo to be in a locked box?

I have not flown with ammo for several years, but this was not a requirement then.

When I came back from Zambia in 2008 there was an unlocked(duct-taped shut) 50 round ammo box with a baggage tag attached on the luggage carousel.

I buy the plastic ammo box from sportsmans wharehouse for around $10 bucks. It is a plastic copy of the military ammo cans. Holds enough ammo with little room to spare.
I just leave it behind after hunting if I don't bring any ammo back.

It has a hole(in the lid) for a lock and works great

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Do the airlines actually require ammo to be in a locked box?

From what I have been told, yes.

Here's the strategy I settled on for transporting my ammo. Load my 60 rounds into three MTM Case-Gard J-20 Series slip top ammo holders (about $2.00 each) then place the three holders into a Gun Guard Plano pistol case. The case has provision for a lock on each side.

Bobby B.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Do the airlines actually require ammo to be in a locked box?

It depends on the airline, but I called South African Airways directly and they told me straight-up that yes, ammo MUST be locked and seperated from the gun. Like Bobby B., I bought a $16 MTM double handgun case to do the job. It fits all four of my 50rd. plastic boxes perfectly when the center foam piece is removed with a little bit of room left for a leather ammo belt pouch and a scope rag. It also has padding foam on the top and bottom that puts just enough squeeze on the ammo boxes to keep them from slopping around in there.

This box thing is a big c@#U$f)+ck.

FAA regs require ammo to be packed in factory packaging, which separates the rounds from one another, or if not in factory packaging, then in a METAL box. Believe it or not, I once shipped an ammo can full of loose 223 ammo on a domestic flight (more than 1000 rounds) and both the airline (AK) and TSA blessed it. I suppose the logic is they don't want the box getting crushed and setting off any primers.

FAA (or maybe IATA) also limits ammo to 5kg per passenger, and the orange tag is also an FAA thing, I believe.

TSA I think just wants the guns unloaded in a locked case. Ammo can be in same case or not.

Airline regs are all over the place and change with the wind. SAA made me put my ammo in the SAME case as my rifles when flying domestically (so the shakedown people could check the ammo as well as the guns), but when flying internationally, they made me separate them. Now if you have a domestic flight connecting to an international flight, you are screwed. Or vise versa. Best policy is to separate them unless you are told otherwise.

I think as long as the case that the ammo boxes are in, is locked, and the ammo boxes are made for ammo, you are OK for the most part. I don't believe there is any law requiring the ammo to be in a locked metal box inside a locked hard case. I have traveled many times with ammo in a metal box, it latches but it doesn't lock. I duct tape it closed, put this inside my second bag, lock that, and go. My knife, spare scope etc go in the same box. I used to use a soft case as my second bag but now I use "Fort Knox", a Hartmann Steamer Trunk with nice leather handles and brass corners, with 3 locks on it. This is to ward off the thieves at JNB, nothing to do with the airlines. Problem is, TSA likes to take bolt cutters to "Fort Knox", and then when you claim for damages they give you the most unbelievable runaround.

I would think this case would work.

Now, I wonder if the MTM 50 round cases will fit within this case?

winchester makes a metal locking pistol case. it comes in several different sizes. i do not know its weight but its not much. inside the bottom portion has layers of removable foam. i bought one of these, took out 2 interior layers of padding, added 2 mtm 20 round boxes of 338's and 2 mtm boxes of 300 wsm. tight fit, padded environment and less than 11 pounds total weight. works like a charm. bought it at bass pro.

graybird - The only thing I can see wrong with the Cabela's case is the lock system. If someone wanting to inspect contents has to break the locks/latches off to open it, then there is no way to relock it. I prefer the similar cases that use padlocks to secure it.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
I would think this case would work.

Now, I wonder if the MTM 50 round cases will fit within this case?

I use a plastic Stanley brand locking toolbox available at Lowes for $8.00 and buy a four pack of keyed alike Master locks. I leave the spares inside the box in case TSA cuts the lock off. Before leaving I fill in the gaps between and on top of the ammo boxes with waffle foam. Works like a charm.

Mike

I have used a Pelican case with TSA Locks.

I have also just left ammo in the factory cardboard box it comes in, when carrying a full "case" of ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have used a Pelican case with TSA Locks.

I have also just left ammo in the factory cardboard box it comes in, when carrying a full "case" of ammo.

Ditto's,
I believe the small Pelican cases are the best by far, tough, waterproof, just about indestructable, fairly inexpensive.

I used one of the Cabela's ammo boxes when I went over last August and the only one to ask if I had my ammo in a lockable box was the lady when I checked in to fly from Joberg to Bulawayo. I never locked the box, they just wanted to know if it was lockable.

I use a small pelican case...fits way more than I can legally carry.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
graybird - The only thing I can see wrong with the Cabela's case is the lock system. If someone wanting to inspect contents has to break the locks/latches off to open it, then there is no way to relock it. I prefer the similar cases that use padlocks to secure it.

Larry Sellers


SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
I would think this case would work.

Now, I wonder if the MTM 50 round cases will fit within this case?

Larry,

Although, I understand your logic for using something that someone can cut the locks off, but doesn't this defeat the purpose of having a lockable case to keep people out? Why have a lockable case if they are just going to cut the locks off. TO me, it would make most sense to not use a lockable case, in the event they want to look inside. Who knows!!!

I use a small shotgun shell/choke tube lockable box from Sportmans Warehouse. Cost was 16$. It holds 4 boxes of ammo. It's small, holds enough ammo and it gets the job done.

On my last trip, one of my clients nearly missed his flight when TSA called him back from the gate, to unlock his locked ammo box, that was in his second bag. On this same trip, I had my ammo packed in a leather toiletries bag, that was in my (locked) second case. No problem. In the past, I have travelled with ammo in my fanny pack, in the gun case, and in a metal box with a closure but not a lock, in an ammo can with a lock, and never had any problem. I think this "locking ammo box" is a myth. Can someone point to a reg where it says you have to have the ammo in a LOCKED box, inside a locked case? This has to be BS, because I know you can put the ammo in your locked gun case. I think the safest bet is to put the ammo in proper packaging, unlocked, inside a hard case locked with a TSA lock. That way, the TSA can inspect it without cutting anything. And that is a good thing, because those apes have, in the past, cut the closure on the case instead of just cutting the lock, requiring an expensive repair.

The other illogical thing I have heard is that your guncase must be locked but NOT with a TSA lock. This is a new wrinkle. On my last trip, I put a padlock on my gun case, unlocked the case for TSA at departure, and they told me that nobody needed to open it again until I got to my destination. It arrived OK. But, on many prior occasions, my gun case or second bag has been delayed only to show up having been gone through by TSA at some connecting airport (with an inspection slip inside the case to explain the missed connection). So now I wonder, if they want to look inside en route, and they presumably have to cut the lock (if it's not a TSA lock), does it make the rest of the journey without a lock (and yes, once my gun case did arrive WITHOUT its lock, and to confound things further, on that trip it was a TSA combo lock).

Where do they, weigh the ammo?

Is this TSA or an offical in Africa doing the weighing?

Do they weigh the ammo while in the case, or just the ammo? I am trying to find if the 11lbs. includes the case. And this is for a trip to Zim.

Many Thanks
HBH

I think Russ has it right. It's illogical. On the last trip my buddy had to quickly use a Smith&Wesson blue plastic box to carry his ammo. He borrowed one of my small padlocks and the airline said OK.
No rhyme nor reason

quote:

Originally posted by HBH:
Where do they, weigh the ammo?

Is this TSA or an offical in Africa doing the weighing?

Do they weigh the ammo while in the case, or just the ammo? I am trying to find if the 11lbs. includes the case. And this is for a trip to Zim.

Many Thanks
HBH

On my last trip (August 2009), Luthansa check in personnel at LAX had me take out the ammo from the Cabelas locked ammo case and weighed the ammo in the boxes. Three boxes of 375 H&H and three boxes of 300 Jarrett weighed exactly 5 kilos. TSA just inpected the ammo but did not weigh it. The weight limit is with the airline as I heard Alaska Airlines will let you take more than the 11 Lbs that is the limit with International carriers.

Was not checked by Namimbia Airlines on way back and was checked all the way through to Lax on way back

I used Americase's box with no trouble. At all. Worked perfectly.
My .02 Two trips and no hassles. Taking it next trip too

Trophyman

quote:

Originally posted by HBH:
Where do they, weigh the ammo?

Is this TSA or an offical in Africa doing the weighing?

Do they weigh the ammo while in the case, or just the ammo? I am trying to find if the 11 lbs. includes the case. And this is for a trip to Zim.

Many Thanks
HBH

I've had our TSA weigh the ammo and box and he said it was just under 5 KG. I've had SAA ticket agent in Port Elizabeth do the same thing. They would not let me take the ammo out of the box.

Also had TSA in Atlanta have me open the ammo box so they could look inside, but did not weigh the ammo.

Ya just never know who is going to do what.

Be prepared to have your ammo weighed. I have been to Africa twice, and my ammo was weighed by TSA and SAA. They weighed it in the box.

The 1250 Pelican case is perfect. 40rnds of 10.75mm, extra small flash light and my knife/leatherman and room for more. Got four locks that use the same key. One for the ammo case, one for the duffle and two for the Pelican 1750 rifle case. Good quality.

So what could happen is they weigh the ammo while still in the locked box. My ammo weighs 11 lbs., and my box weighs 1.5 lbs. So I am over, what happens then? Do I have to ditch some ammo,pay a fee? I am a fristimer at Africa, sorry if the questions bore anyone.

Many Thanks
HBH

HBH:

In three trips to Africa, 2 RSA and 1 Zim, I have never had the TSA here or SAA people weigh the ammo in the case. I have had them weigh it but they took it out of the case, Chicago O'Hare. The weight limit applies to ammo only not ammo and case. You may want to print up the reg,s from the TSA site and your airline(s) that you are flying on. Perhaps your travel agent can do this. If someone tried to weigh mine in the case, I would politely point out that the reg's apply to ammo only and force the issue with a supervisor only if necessary.

As you have noticed, there is wide differences in experiences while travelling with ammo. Some get checked, some don't. Some are told to pack in a separate lockable box, some say in the gun case is OK.

In order to be prepared, I suggest that you pack your ammo in a hard case and use TSA locks. I use a Pelican 1200 which perfectly holds 5 twenty round boxes of .375 H&H ammo which weigh just under 5 Kg's. This fits in my Pelican 1610 case which I use for my luggage case. Very durable, although weighty. I have had no problems with this system.

If you are heading to RSA, the rules at OT airport in Jo'Burg seem to be up to whoever you are talking to at the time. Be prepared to have them take out your ammo and ship it as a separate item. They do not charge you as a second checked bag for this. We saw many arriving and departing hunters who were not prepared for this. The SAPS or agency personnel simply put their ammo in a heavy duty clear plastic bag, taped it shut, put a name tag on it and then checked it in. We saw many bags of ammo on the luggage carousel iat Dulles when we landed.

I would also take 2-4 extra TSA locks with you. The three of us that went to RSA last all had our bags broken into at Jo'Burg. The locks were cut. Fortunately when we arrived at Dulles, I just took the locks from my empty ammo case, I left my remaining .375 ammo with my PH, and put them on my checked luggage case. From now on, I will always have a couple of spare locks with me.

I also pack my valuables in the carry on, bino's, camera, etc. I pack as much as I can in the carry on including my boots and a couple of days of clothes in case my luggage goes missing. You can borrow a rifle until yours catches up but good luck borrowing boots.

I use a Boyt Tactical 40 backpack (Tan) as my carryon and it works great. I then use it as my day bag for hunting which is left in the truck. There are many similar packs but I really like this one. Fits the overhead perfectly even when fully loaded and gear is easy to get out of it. 5.11 and Maxpedition may good ones as well.

I can keep my case under the 50# limit, even though the case weighs almost 20# empty and the ammo weighs 11#. That leaves about 18# of gear in that case. That is why I load up my carryon.

Have fun, enjoy the planning, and don't take too much stuff!

Regards,

RCG

RCG Were the locks cut because there was ammo in the bags or for other reasons? Did you lose items from your bags where the locks were cut? I have never had my locks cut in Africa, although I have had them separate the zippers of my luggage with a pencil in order to gain access and steal items. I now have zipperless, hardside bags with built in TSA locks that you would have to break, in order to get into the luggage.

UEG:

All of our bags were broken into as were many others on our return flight to Dulles.

I did not have ammo in the case as I gave mine to my PH as did one of my partners. The third guy had his ammo in a small pelican case and it shipped as a separate checked in bag per SAA requirements.

I did not have anything stolen but all my of my gear was rummaged through. Les did have a spare cell phone and charger stolen. Might have been something else. Bill did not have anything stolen,IIRC. Again, all of the valuables, except Les's spare phone were in our carry-ons.

They are getting very brazen at OT in Jo'Burg. I am sure they are just gearing up and getting practice for the big pay day that will be the World Cup this Hune and July!

I plan on using the Pelican case with TSA locks but am thinking of putting cable ties on as a deterrent. Might slow them down enough to try another less secured case.

RCG

Thanks for the update. That is very scary if they are now brazenly cutting the TSA locks off to get into the bags to rummage and steal, without any justification for the same (i.e. looking for ammo in a checked bag). I had them, a few years ago, search me out in the airport, in order to discuss the ammo that was in one of my checked bags for the flight home, but they didn't get into the bag-only saw it when it was x-rayed. Glad to know that almost all of your valuables were in your carry-ons. Cable ties are another good idea.

Guys, thanks for the help. I am a little slow, how will the cable ties help if they are packing bolt cutters and cutting the locks off?

So you have your ammo in a locked hardcase and that case is in a checked bag, and that is no good?

They then take your hard locked ammo case out and ship that seperatly? Is this correct?

Many Thanks
HBH

It's hard to tell who is cutting the locks. I know TSA does it because my trunk lock was cut off (ruining the latch) somewhere between Dulles and PDX two trips ago, and there was a TSA note in the bag. I also know that at JNB, they get into zippered bags esp. if the bags are delayed and they are sitting there for any length of time. I had not heard that JNB was cutting locks, although on one trip last year, the TSA lock on my Tuffpak was gone when the bag got to Zim. I thought, at the time, that the TSA bozos at PDX didn't lock it properly when they went through it on the way out. There was nothing taken, but then again, aside from the guns, there wasn't much in the way of interesting/valuable stuff in there.

Bottom line, I think it's safe to conclude that using any lock other than a TSA lock on an ammo box, is asking for baggage delays or possibly even a missed flight.

Regarding the weight, there is an FAA (or IATA) 5kg limit per passenger, and there is also a per plane limit. Alaska, through poor training or ignorance, will let you go over the 5kg if there are only a couple of hunters on the flight. I would not take chances on international flights with more than 5 kg. You don't need it unless you are going to shoot birds, in which case take a 12ga and get the ammo lined up ahead of time on the other end.

Ok... here's a dumb question... Where do I get TSA locks and how much are they?? I assume they are all keyed the same??