A friend sent me the following text today, He was flying from Charlotte NC to California with firearms.

"You are not going to believe what just happened to me...

I’m checking in at American Airlines ticket counter. I inform the ticket agent that I’m traveling with firearms and ask her for the Declaration I have to sign. She says “No, you have to take your gun out and show me it’s unloaded”. I tell her she is mistaken and I’m not taking my guns out right at the counter. I ask if we can step into a back room to do it. NOPE. I then ask for her supervisor. NOPE. “If you’re gonna check them, you’re going to pull them out right here and show me they’re unloaded.” I try to explain that it is never done this way these days, but she insists...

So, I open my tuffpak and pull out the pistols. She tells me to prove they’re unloaded, so I grab the Glock and rack the slide. There are probably 15+ people waiting to check in and half of them shit their pants when I racked the slide a few times. Then, I pulled out a Sig and did the same and I think the other half shit theirs. When I pulled out the AR, people were making distance away from the counter. I was pissed at this point, so I held the AR up in the ‘work space’ and pulled the charging handle back and nearly everyone was trying to disappear at this point. I’m sure more than a few were expecting an active shooter nightmare. Anyway, after I proved. They were unloaded, she finally gave me the affidavit to sign and put in my case. Then she demanded I prove it could be locked!

When I told the TSA screener about it, he nearly fell off his stool! I ended up reporting it to a manager for American, she took all the details down and headed out to find the ticket agent. Her last word as she left was “They are never supposed to do that!”

So, how’s your day going?"

Probably lucky the airport police didn't happen by when this was taking place, might not have ended well. It would be funny if it weren't so idiotic...well, it is a little funny.

Wow, just wow!

The ticket agent likely had no idea if the firearms were even unloaded after your friend’s actions. Heck, in Hollywood, continual racking of the action is a sign that you mean business!

It reminds me of being in a store with my mother and sister when I was 8-10 years old. It got held up by a guy with a pump shotgun.

It went something like this: robber pumps shotgun upon entry, approaches the cashier area “shut the F up and give me the F-ing money!” Pumps again, no shell ejected. “Hurry the F up and give me the money!” Pumps again, no shell ejected. This was repeated a couple more times. At that age, I hunted with an Ithaca M37 youth pump and immediately knew what was going on, but I was only 8-10 or so.

Here at the Charleston airport they have always checked my gun at the counter. I pull the bolt back and show them its unloaded they put the unloaded gun card in the case then I lock it back and then they check the gun through. They also did it in New York but had someone from security to come so I could show them it was unloaded.

WVFRED

Karl,

I've had to open and show the ticket agent, my unloaded gun numerous times. I've always just opened the case while on the scale, and shown the bolt is removed, and possibly just repositioning the rifle to expose the empty magazine well if required, never raising the gun up off the foam padding in the case. I'm not sure anyone in line behind me was aware of any of it, certainly no one more than a couple of people back.

That said, I don't remember having to go through this process anytime recently. The last few times I've checked weapons for flight, the agent has asked if they are empty, I've verbally acknowledged they are, the agent has handed me a card to sign and hand to the TSA guys while they do their inspection.

Come to think of it, I do believe it was on AA that I had to demo the rifles as described above. I flew AA to Alaska in 98 and my first trip to RSA in 2006 (via connection in Madrid with Iberia). I only remember the 98 experience because my hunting partner, who, like myself, was an AA pilot at the time, and we were flying non-rev from DFW to ANC, made a big production out of getting his rifle out, nosily slamming the bolt open, then closed, "twirling" the gun around so everyone in line noticed him. I specifically remember doing the "Homer Simpson disappearing into the hedge" routine while he did this! LOL

I guess the most mind boggling part of this thread is: Why would your friend fly American Airlines?

I'll be flying AA to Alaska in about 4 weeks. I will be checking a revolver. I do have an orange "chamber flag" in it. I wounder if this will be enough.

I cannot tell from the AA website, do they want the ammo in with the gun, or separate?

I've only traveled with bolt action rifles and I remove the bolts and put them in the case wrapped in bubble wrap. So demonstrating it's unloaded is "no problem." But they generally never allow me to handle the rifle. That's why I do it that way.

Once in Dar, the government official asked me to load my rifle -- in an international airport -- to prove I was carrying the right ammunition. Needless to say, I had some serious reservations. Fortunately, we were getting on a domestic flight and I was traveling with my PH.
He said ok. I did it and I didn't go to jail.

I've flown with firearms on American several times in the past 3 years, though not to or from Charlotte. DFW has been a breeze on American, just declare the firearm unloaded and slip the card in the case (didn't even fully open the case);however at the Gainsville, Florida airport American employees secured my locked guncase with three industrial size and strength zip ties (encircled the gun case)prior to releasing it to me on arrival and after I placed the declaration in the case upon departure. Airport policeman said the zip ties were due to an incident they had a few years ago...I don't blame them much.

In 2010 at JFK I was asked by NY transit cops to check my rifle for serial number and if it was loaded right at the check in counter.

I opened the pelican case and and told them they can handle the gun. I would not hold a gun in a airport even surrounded by cops. New York Transits finest with Glocks on their hips did not know how to operate a bolt action or the basic mechanics of a rifle.

So I had to handle the guns and explain to them how a bolt action rifle works.

Another reason to hunt and travel with a blaser. The whole damn gun is already broken into pieces.

Mike

I went through Dulles once with a browning hi-power. The lady took me to a back room and I opened the case and stepped back. I had no idea what to expect since it was the first time I’d travelled with a gun.

I said, “Do you need to check if it’s loaded?”

She said, “I aiynt touchin’ that thang, no way! You can just show me and then put it away.”

quote:

I've only traveled with bolt action rifles and I remove the bolts

That's exactly what I do and the bolts are individually wrapped in old socks and placed inside a zippered pouch attached to the inside of my TuffPak.
I have never had an airline agent ask me to remove my firearms from my TuffPak for inspection at the check-in counter here at the McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas. I always declare the firearms, politely ask for the firearms declaration card to sign, sign it, open the case, place it inside and lock it back up. By signing the declaration card and placing it in your gun case you are affirmatively declaring the firearms to be unloaded. If they are subsequently found to be loaded it is a federal offense. If I was ever requested to remove the firearms for inspection, I would ask for a supervisor and for a one of the assigned Metro police officers at the airport to be in attendance. I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of scene would be created by someone removing their firearms for inspection in a crowded airport like the one here in Las Vegas! And yes, the zip ties placed on the locked case by airport personnel are a part of it as well.

I have flown through JFK 4 times with rifles. Each time, Port Authority Police came to check in counter and had me get the rifles out right there on the floor and let them read the serial numbers and demonstrate them being unloaded.

The last time I went to Africa--admittedly, many years ago--I flew out of Atlanta, and the ticket agent made me take both my rifles out of my Tuffpak and show her they were unloaded.

There was a fairly long line behind me so I asked if she really needed me to pull guns out of a case in the middle of a busy airport? Oh, yes.

So I removed a .458 Winchester magnum and a .375 H&H out of the case and showed them to her, amidst gasps and murmurs from the folks behind me.

The agent had no idea how to tell if a bolt gun was loaded so I had to demonstrate how an action works. More uneasiness from the people nearby, some of whom had begun to edge away.

All this happened not too long after 911, and I was amazed an airline would not only allow but insist a customer produce firearms in a crowded terminal.

I happen to know Karl’s friend really well, since I’m the guy it happened to. The key points here are that:

1, when I walked up to the check-in counter the first thing I did was advise her I was traveling with firearms and needed the Declaration Card to sign and put in my case.

2, when she said I had to show them to prove they were unloaded, I informed her that I’ve traveled with guns over 40 years and know the rules, so let’s step into a back office where I could show her in private without pulling out guns in public. She refused to do that.

3, at her refusal to accommodate my request, I asked her to have a supervisor come to resolve the matter. She refused. She then told me that if I expected those guns to be checked in, that I’d better pull them out ‘right here, right now’.

4, I showed her all 3 guns were unloaded, then put them away, signed the declaration, put it on top of everything I’d loaded back into my tuffpak and before I could put the padlock back on, she actually told me the case was a problem as it had to be lockable. The lock was in my hand! I locked the case and went on my way. She was not only an idiot, she was an idiot with an attitude. My suspicion is that she is an ‘Anti’ and disapproved from the moment I walked up to the counter.

American’s 1st class wasn’t very 1st class. Other than the roomy, comfortable seat; a vegetarian sandwich wasn’t exactly what I expected for a 5-hour flight in 1st class. The AA personnel I reported the incident to affirmed that they are not supposed to have people pull guns out at the ticket counter. In this day and age, I don’t believe anyone should be required to display weapons at the check-in counter, but should be able to do it in a back office if required. The last previous time I can recall having to show guns at the counter was before 9/11.

Every airline I have ever flown from and within the USA, and that is every major airline, has required that I open the gun case and show that my firearms are unloaded.

Quite often, but not always, I have been asked to do that right at the ticket counter.

I have always complied as discreetly as possible and without incident. It's not that difficult, and it's certainly not necessary to remove the firearms from the case.

Just open the action, or even better, if possible, remove the bolt, remove any magazine and insert a chamber flag when packing the firearms.

Only in recent years have TSA inspections become a substitute for that process, but that is not always the case, and there are no guarantees.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Every airline I have ever flown from and within the USA, and that is every major airline, has required that I open the gun case and show that my firearms are unloaded.

...

My experience is the opposite. I have never ever had to prove the firearms were unloaded.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Every airline I have ever flown from and within the USA, and that is every major airline, has required that I open the gun case and show that my firearms are unloaded.

...

My experience is the opposite. I have never ever had to prove the firearms were unloaded.

Prove? Not sure what that means.

I have been asked to open the case and show, and then sign on the dotted line.

I’ve never been doubted, as it has always been so obvious.

I am constantly amazed at the inconsistancy in training/knowledg at the ticket counter in some airports. Have run into it with customs as well. On the other hand BOI has always been one of the best to deal with.

These are all informative stories. One should always print both the airline’s and the TSA’s rules regarding traveling with firearms (both available on the respective websites). Armed with this one can respectfully “inform” the person with authority the proper procedure to follow.
As was said, the consistency between stations is horrible.

I was asked to open the bolt for inspection and then after closing the bolt dry firing my rifle in the Istanbul Airport so that security could confirm that is was a functioning rifle.

We all need to cut the ticket counter people a little slack. An individual ticket agent may only deal with a passenger carrying firearms once in a blue moon and (1) may be rusty on the procedure, (2) is naturally a bit nervous about the process, and (3) probably never received much training on the process other than being told to "read the manual". The bulk of the ticket agents are women, who tend to be a bit less familiar with firearms than men, and so react accordingly and with less comfort (although male agents can be equally discomfited when dealing with firearms.)

The "standard" practice used to be open the case at the counter, show (discretely) that the gun is unloaded, and place a signed card so verifying inside the case -- which is then locked and turned over to baggage.

Airline policies vary. Some now refuse to carry firearms at all. Some still use the old "standard" procedure, while others have adopted some variation of this theme. The problem is that whatever agent you get by luck of the draw may not know what the procedure is. The most damning part of the incident in question is that the agent refused to summon a supervisor, which would have been in the best interest of everyone.

I remember traveling to Canada in 1998 with rifles on the old Northwest Airlines. The poor little girl who did the check in was green and nervous, but she was a trooper who did her very best. I did everything I could to make it easier on her, and we both appreciated the courtesy afforded one another in accomplishing a successful gun check. I think she probably took the rest of the day off and went to get a stiff drink at 9 AM.

I recently transported firearms from Sweden (Stockholm Arlanda) on British Air. I got to the check in counter the minute it opened that morning, knowing that the process could take a while. They basically assigned a special agent to me who diligently, though slowly, worked her way through pages of instructions, often phoning someone for clarifications or verification that she was doing it right. The check-in took about an hour and a half, but both I and my firearms arrived back home in Texas, even making a successful change of planes in London's Heathrow. British is known as a "gun unfriendly" airline (and the extra fees dug a significant hole in my wallet), but I was treated with courtesy in a business-like manner and can excuse the extended check-in time due to my being probably one of only a handful of travelers with firearms that the BA desk in Stockholm handles each year.

By far the best experience I had was in Austin in 2007 on my way to Namibia. Unloaded check was no problem, and when the TSA agent at the baggage drop saw me start to wrap shipping tape all the way around my closed gun case (locks and all), he volunteered to help me using official tape stamped "TSA INSPECTED" in bold red and blue lettering!

While it isn't common, I have been asked to show the weapon is unloaded. I don't think that is unreasonable; airline personnel have been killed by idiots checking loaded weapons.

The only issues I have ever had was back when TSA would open your locked gun case without you there. Once they neglected to put the rod through all of the locking clasps, instead just putting my lock on one clasp. Another time while connecting thru Denver from a Canadian trip they cut my locks because they paged me in the airport but I was having dinner with my brother.

Houston Hobby....I checked shotguns in my SKB case with no issues. While going through screening, I hear my name being called and requesting to return to the Delta ticket desk. When there, they asked if I have a key to my case since they were having issues. Its a TSA lock but I handed them my key. They return my keys about 5 minutes. All good until I get home in Atlanta. Seems there's a broken key in the lock. Wonder why they needed my key cause obviously it happened before they requested mine which is whole..

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Every airline I have ever flown from and within the USA, and that is every major airline, has required that I open the gun case and show that my firearms are unloaded.

...

My experience is the opposite. I have never ever had to prove the firearms were unloaded.

My experience has been the same.