I was travelling on Delta Airlines from Windhoek to Seattle on 10-31-09. The flight from Windhoek to Johanasburg was SAA of course, and I saw my rifle case being loaded on the plane as we were loading.

That was the last anyone has seen it.

I am in the process of filing a claim with Delta to try and get some compensation, we'll see how that goes. Has anyone had this happen? Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this situation? Can I file a claim with my credit card company, NRA Insurance, homeowners, etc?

I appreciate any help you can give me.

Thanks,

Shaun

Stay on top of it with the airline. It may not be over yet. I am a pain in the ass about my bags and force the crew to confirm my bags are on each flight. So far so good. I guess I was a such a pain in Amsterdam one time, they offered to take me to the bin and show me my bags.

Another reason to have your guns insured with Sportsmans Alliance Insurance.

When mine dispeared two years ago, they just said fill out the forms and will we will write the check.

SDHall

I had two shotguns go missing on a domestic leg with Delta. I think they had me wait 30 days or so before filing a claim.

I submitted to claim for like $8000 with receipts and literally within a week the shotguns turned up at my door without any prior notice.

The rifle is somewhere, and I suspect it may be in some TSA holding area. That was the issue with my firearms. One of the two locks on the case was broken so they considered it "unlocked".

One would still have to pry open the small takedown case, even with one lock, but someone was "doing their job" and held it with no notice to anyone for a month or so.

Delta ended up shipping it to me with a bunch of TSA tape wrapping up the case on the side where the lock was broken. I suspect someone tried to pry the case open and broke the lock (which was part of the case and not say a padlock.

Your rifle is sitting somewhere, someone at Delta has to get off their duff and find it in Atlanta.

File the claim and that will get them focused.

If you used a travel agent then they should help you by contacting the airlines as well. This is where Bruce from Gracy Travel(in Jo'burg) would come in handy, if you used them. You have the bag tags with the numbers. Once I had my firearms come up missing and they finally used the bag tags to locate them in another city and airport. Don't give up. Be insistent and persistent. Use every contact you can. Is there anyone, like at Afton House, besides Gracy's Bruce, that might be able to help you? After my experience, I have purchased gun insurance with Sportsman's Alliance Insurance every time that I travel with my firearms.

You must be persistent and escalate the issue up the management chain. They will try to stop you. Don't let it happen! Write the Chairman after you have worked with the others. Daily contact is a must! If you quit they surely will.

quote:

Originally posted by Dall85:
You must be persistent and escalate the issue up the management chain. They will try to stop you. Don't let it happen! Write the Chairman after you have worked with the others. Daily contact is a must! If you quit they surely will.

Absolutely. Some of these airline types are greenies.

I was headed for Uvalde, TX on a deer hunt on Northworst. Had to change planes in Memphis for San Antonio. I made the connection, but some idiot in Memphis sent my rifle back to Orlando. Then, it took them 24 hours to deliver the rifle from SAT to Uvalde after they shipped it to SAT. Some of these baggage apes couldn't hold a job at McDonalds and there a lot of gun haters in the airline business.

Take a pit bull's attitude. Sink your teeth in and don't let go of these idiots and most likely you'll get your gun back.

Just part of the fun of flying the not-so-friendly skies these days.

Also, any rifle I put on an airplane is insured by Sportsman's in Ormond Beach.

Agreed. Don't give up.

Since the rifle may be in Janiceburg, I would advise that you contact Anne from Air 2000.

She knows her way around JNB and will find it if anyone can. I have used Air 2000 and their fees are quite reasonable and in any case are very well-earned.

Contact info:

Air 2000/Hunters Support Services
P.O. Box 120
Lanseria
1748 South Africa
Tel: 011.27.11.659.2649
Email: air2000@global.co.za

Good luck.

My guess is the rifle is in JNB. If you do business with SAA for long you'll wish you had not.

Since your ticket was on DAL they are ultimately liable but only to the extent that the international treaties governing lost bags stipulate. The last I knew the figure was $1,200. max. They (all carriers) offer insurance, not at a good rate but do offer insurance. In the future good insurance(not just homeowners) that covers firearms during international travel would be a good Idea.(maybe sportsman's of ormond beach fla.) They advertise in the SCI literature.

If the rifle actually made it to DAL it will most likely come home but SAA in JNB is a den of theives. Good Luck!

Adrian,

You are actually somewhat more likely to get a firearm back than ordinary lost baggage. This is because the airlines get scrutiny from all sorts of governmental types (both U.S. and foreign) when they "lose" a gun and it thus may presumably metriculate into the unregulated possession of someone, somewhere which that government agency doesn't want to have a gun.

Therefore, copy all of your correspondence (and a log of phone calls) to the TSA and note on the correspondence that it is being copied to the TSA. This will help build a little more heat under the Delta people.

Have had weapons "lost" a few times.
Once it was over over two weeks before finally turning up.

Another time the airlines hired a cab to drive them from Manchester, NH to my house in Hanover.

I agree ,
be persistent, file a claim immediately, no reason to wait.
If , you get a run-around , persistently, firmly, move up the chain of command.

Do not be passive, yet maintain decorum.

Advise the airline that you are going to report the guns stolen to the local FBI and ATF offices since they were "stolen" in the act of interstate commerce they will take the report. This has proven to get the airlines off dead center in the past.

I agree with the statement above. Once I informed the airlines that I would be contacting the BATFE and that they had the responsibility for not losing firearms in transit, they got to work finding my rifles and I had them within a few hours. They tracked them with the bag tags, but threatening them with contact with the BATFE got them moving faster.

I have found that luggage direct transfers through Jo'Burg to be a big problem and now prefer to rebook in.

Your guns are likely sitting in a room somewhere along the transit chain. In September of 2001, Mike and I were among the first air passengers out of Joburg following 9-11. It was mayhem but I even tipped pretty heavy placing my rifle with baggage. When we finally arrived in Atlanta (the flight was a 25 hr. ordeal including sitting on the tarmac in the Cape Verde Islands for 4 hrs. waiting for permission to land in the US), my rifle was not there. About 2 weeks later, I got a call from Delta. After anwering a few questions to prove who I was, I was informed my rifle was found in Atlanta, still secure in its case, with only my name tag attached. I had to pay freight from Atlanta to Houston. I could have fought it but hell, I was so happy to have my rifle back I let it slide.

My guess is your rifle will turn up in a few weeks.

SD,

Please let us know when your rifle returns and please check on liability limits. I wish you luck and once again reccommend insurance in the future. It really doesn't matter how big your loss was their responsibility is no more than 1,250 bucks per piece of checked luggage. Since they don't want to pay even that your rifle should come home soon.

Since the 747-400 was replaced by the scarebus(you know, the one you can't use the rudder on.) SAA has been a disaster and the ground personnel have seldom risen to the level of indifference, especially in JNB. JMO!

Adrian

Any news on this? After my guncase vanished for a couple of days, I've been watching this thread with great interest.

Best of luck.

I once lost my rifle when travelling from Paris to Johannesburg. They didnt find it for five weeks !! I had the senior security adviser for British Airways chasing it on my behalf and when it finally turned up even he couldnt tell me where it had been. I was told that it had probably been in a room at Johannesburg. Good luck.

My rifle is still missing. I am working on things from many angles, but everything seems to be moving slow.

I have contacted my travell agent to see if they could assist. They had made arrangements to help with the rifle permiting on the way over, so their people in Jo-berg are checking to see if the rifle is still there. I just recieved a message from them that they were unable to locate the rifle, so it is either gone, or it is in Atlanta in customs and noone knows what to do with it.

I have filed a claim with Delta for reimburesment, but I am concernced that limits of liability are very low and they will not cover much of the loss.

I have filed a claim with my homeowners, that may take some time and I have a large deductible.

I will be filing a claim with NRA, they cover up to $1,000 in losses that pick up where your homeowners leaves off, so that should cover the deductible.

I also filed a claim with the local police department, listing the rifle as stolen. They add the serial number to the national database so if it ever shows up in the US I should be able to get it back.

I have had many offers of help from the AR community, thank you to everyone. I feel that I need to let some things play out with what I have done already before taking any additional steps.

One thing I know, next time that I travell with a firearm, I will have separate insurance to cover the contents of my rifle case. Filing claims and following up with everyone is a real pain in the neck, I really think it is intentional to discourage you from following through.

I would much prefer to get the rifle and contents back than to recieve monetary compensation. In the big scheme of things, what I had in the case totaled about $3,500, not even a third of the price of a low end double rifle, but what I had there meant a lot to me.

I recieved a call from Delat Air Freight yesterday, they had my rifle in Seattle. I was able to pick it up this morning, a little over a month since I arrived back in the states.

The guy at Delta told me that they had 12 rifles that been found in Johanesberg that were destined for Seattle. No one there knew what to do with them.

Thank to everyone for your help, I am glad that I finally got my stuff back.

Delta was a real pain, I don't know if any other airline would be more helpful, but I am not in a hurry to book with them again.

Excellent news. Glad to hear it.

That's just another reason to overfly Joburg, unless you are hunting RSA and absolutely have to go there. That place is the absolute pits.

From what I have seen and experienced in the Joberg airport -- if there is any way to avoid going through there -- do it!!--- however -- not very feasible to avoid for a whole bunch of African hunting destinations

Absolutely. Some of these airline types are greenies.

I have had clients loose guns mainly from Atlanta to JHB.1 chap out of Michigun only got his guns back 10weeks later lying in a warehouse in NY?
N.B.check your guns on and lock them yourself(tampering- another story)
Glad they came out.
dave davenport

Glad to see it turned up in the end.

One major problem is that baggage tags can fall off and then the airline staff can battle to discover who the case belong to.

I glued a couple of pieces of white plastic (about 8"x4") directly only my riflecase and every time I travel, I write my name, phone number and all flight details on them with indelible pen. Then when I get home again, I wipe it off with a bit of petrol and a rag and it's ready to go the next time.

Steve,

That white plastic is a good plan.

I have been putting my entire itinerary in an envelope marked " ITINERARY ENCLOSED" and using clear packing tape to completely seal it to the rifle case. It has made it over and back every time without being rubbed off or damaged.

Les

Les,

I also have one of them with a copy of all my paperwork in it.

I had been enclosing all of my info on the inside of the case. However, it is locked in transit and I can't trust a baggage handler to break open the lock. Think I will do like Steve with the white plastic card on the outside as well as inside.


Dutch

quote:

The guy at Delta told me that they had 12 rifles that been found in Johanesberg that were destined for Seattle. No one there knew what to do with them.

Friggin retards. Find something that has a destination tag to go to Seattle, and they don't know what to do.

Shoot, maybe send it to where it is suppose to go? I mean, this ain't brain surgery folks.

It is a Cabelas Aluminum case that I have my name, phone number, and address engraved on both sides. I had two plastic tags from Gracy Travel with my information on the gun, plus two business cards taped to the case. The luggage tag showing Seattle as the destination was still attached as well.

The guy from Delta actually told me that he had a hard time tracking me down.

I am convinced that they are all idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by SDHall:
It is a Cabelas Aluminum case that I have my name, phone number, and address engraved on both sides. I had two plastic tags from Gracy Travel with my information on the gun, plus two business cards taped to the case. The luggage tag showing Seattle as the destination was still attached as well.

The guy from Delta actually told me that he had a hard time tracking me down.

I am convinced that they are all idiots.

And this is from the largest airline in the world?

Sorry for the incovenients, a least You had a happy end...until today many friends asked to me.... why do You rent guns ? instead of travell with Your own beatifull guns when go outside?, eh,eh, this is one of the reason....
(the main concern when travellig added to some probable health issue) but I anwer them..... because I shot very well with any rifle....eh,eh,eh.Regards Guille.

When Delta began flying to Jnb they could not take their own employees to S. Africa. You are required to hire local people or even more likely a local sub contractor. Maybe even SAA, to handle luggage and ticketing.

I have made numerous trips thru JNB, mostly with SAA and never has everything gone according to plan. I have always had good luck on Delta and you gotta love those boeings.

"spare us the scarebus"

Hi All,
In the lastest australian shooter there was an artical about a hunter coming back from zimbabwe with his two rifes in a heavy duty alloy gun case that was lost in sydney airport for a couple of days and when it was found the case was trashed but the rifles made it through ok. The owner checked with our customs and border protection service and it was found that the damage happened once the case arrived back in OZ.
SD Hall i am glad you got your rifles back in the long run. Did the airline give you anything for the stress invoved

We stencilled our name, address and phone numbers onto the outside of the cases in case the tags come adrift. Keep intending to ask our insurance carrier if our scheduled policy pays for scheduled items lost in transit-does anyone know the answer?

I have asked my homeowner carrier multiple times if they will cover my rifles. I get the same answer every time. They will cover here in the US if there's a problem, but will not cover them once they reach foreign soil. So...it basically does me no good. And unless you're willing to join one of the "less than impressive" organizations offering a "gun insurance", then you're screwed. At least I have NOT found any company who's willing to insure a 10+++thousand dollar rifle in Africa. Some say Lloyd's, but that hasn't worked yet either. Anyone have anything to address this problem yet??

I should add....
for a reasonable price.

Contact your Insurance Agent.

They should have a plan that protects your guns anywhere on the Planet for ANY reason. Loss or damage.

They will want an appprasial and pictures are a good idea.

Just make sure there is no small print.

Sportsman's Insurance Agency in Florida is who I have my rifles insured with for any trips to the Dark Continent.

Sportsman's insurance requires you to be a member of one of their "approved organizations". And my homeowner's carrier will not insure a $20k double rifle while it's in Africa. Other options? NE 450: What homeowner's do you have?? I have bundled everything including an umbrella with Nationwide, and they certainly won't handle it unless my agent is a nimrod.