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Gentlemen My good friend, W. David Powell, owner of gunsinternational.com called me this morning and requested that I post this on AR. He was leaving for a hunting trip this morning out of Tampa and was advised by TSA that they will no longer accept gun cases with built in TSA accessable locks. I'm just the messenger. I don't know any more than this. David will post details upon his return late next week. Don Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | ||
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This is not a change in TSA rules, which have always stated that the guncase must be locked and that only the owner is to posses the key, which he will surrender for inspection and it then shall be returned to the owner. A TSA lock on a guncase provides zero security and I cannot understand why anyone would believe otherwise. You can also use a secure lock on your luggage which contains your ammunition under the same conditions, and you should do so. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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We have discussed this matter many times before here on AR, and LionHunter and Donald Soter are dead right. I have argued this very issue with many of our AR members in the past who seem to think that they could lock their guncases with TSA locks in spite of the regulations. Now, those that have bought guncases with TSA locks (ie. SKB cases, Tuffpak TSA cases, etc.) will be sorry that they didn't listen, pay attention and/or read the regulations. | |||
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You can still use a non-TSA padlock on the Tuffpak cases marketed for a TSA lock. Best, jpj3 | |||
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I have never used a TSA lock on my guncase, as I have allways understood the regulation as said above. Good Hunting,  | |||
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can you use a good combination lock??? If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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Yes. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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You would have to give the combination to each inspector and that is a security problem (for you). Also, given the capabilities of some TSA folks, I'm not sure they could manage to get your case opened. Keyed padlocks are the way to go; buy at least two in a keyed alike package and you can secure your ammo in your duffle with the other lock and will only have to carry one key on your person and can secure a second key inside your carry-on for emergencies. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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The times I have used combo locks, the TSA has just asked me to open the case for them. All the TSA people I have dealt with were very nice. Even when I set off the walk through Metal Detector, and once when my carry on tested positive for explosives.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Really, how much security does any lock on a gun case provide?  **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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Lion hunter thanks for the info I knew about the non TSA lock on the gun case,but did not know you could use one on your duffle with the ammo in it. Do you just let TSA inspect it then lock it like you would your gun case? | |||
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I guess you can use anything you want on your luggage but if you do, you're going to have a good chance that it will be cut off. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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"Really, how much security does any lock on a gun case provide?" The lock on a Tuff Pak provides a great deal of security for whatever is inside. No just cutting off a lock, a drill maybe, or sawing the entire case in half. Heads above any other gun cases out there for "security", not to mention all the other plus factors of this case. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Locks are a deterrent only. For the criminal they are a very minor obstacle. I worked for a number of years in minimum and maximum security prisons and I can tell you that the criminal mind is amazing at figuring out how to get around locks. For those of you who laugh at TSA locks, I can tell you that your locks are no safer from the criminal who wants to steal from you. I have a video demonstration of a lock being opened in a few seconds. I would post it but don't know how. I can email it, but can't get it on here. | |||
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Contrary to all opinion here, my hunting partner and I both have flown in 2007 to Zim and 2009 to South Africa, using TSA locks on our rifle cases. In everycase the TSA opened the cases using their keys if they needed to and then wrapped "TSA Inspected" tape on all the locks and the cases. With never a word about the locks being illegal or improper! Of course they may not have known the rules, IF there really are any! I think someone here recently asked TSA directly if these locks were OK for rifles and got an OK at that time [earlier this year IIRC] Now, admittedly they are really wimpy locks and anyone can open them with a strong pencil or any prybar or visegrip, but they do provide SOME illusion of security at least. Now our suitcases were broken into in South Africa and rifled through and the TSA locks were no where to be seen, but that is part of a longer story! It seems to me that the real answer to the issue is to rent outfitter rifles and reduce the hassle! Les | |||
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Excuse me, but I cannot believe some of the FUD being stated as fact in this thread. Here is the TSA latest website on traveling with firearms and ammunition. IT CLEARLY STATES THAT A TSA LOCK ON A GUNCASE DOES NOT MEET REQUIREMENTS!!! www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrave.../editorial_1666.shtm TSA does not prohibit ammo in the guncase, but many airline do mandate ammo be in a separate, locked container and that the ammo be declared at the ticket counter. TSA advises travelers always re-view the firearms and ammunition transport rules of their selected air carriers. Anyone who believes all TSA and airlines agents are completely familiar with their own regulations is naive. You should always print and carry in your carry-on bag both the current TSA and airline regs for firearms and ammo, so that you may politely provide them to the ignorant and/or power hungry agents as needed. BTW, I have used a TuffPak for my guns since 1995 and have never had an issue. My ammo is always carried in my Filson duffle with a heavy padlock, also never had an issue. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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LionHunter Yep, You are correct. That's what your page says! Interestingly this page does not [directly] say that [unless you search further]. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/a.../editorial_1188.shtm It is hard to explain our success in travel to and from RSA in July this year, lucky I guess. Never again though - Im renting from now on! Les | |||
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I got away with using TSA lock on my gun case on 2 previous safaris. I am not pressing my luck a 3rd time. UEG chastised me and rightly so for advocating the use of the TSA locks on my gun case. Don't do it! I do recommend the use ofTSA locks on your luggage and the new TSA lock using the cable for a hasp is the trick. Also as per Gracy Travel's recommendation put TSA locks on your locking ammo box if you have used one. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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LH - If things ever come to the point, (for me) that I have to rent a gun to go on Safari, I won't be going. I know for a lot of us, using our own favorite rifle, working up loads, sighting in, is probably 50% of the adventure. Remove that and the trip isn't worth it. On topic, I always put TSA locks on my bags, Tuff Pak has it's own great lock, and this trip I am adding wire ties on checked bags, if only to be able to tell if the locks have been opened or not. Plus the wire ties just add another element the crooks have to deal with, so maybe they will pick another easier looking bag to rip off?? Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Interestingly, I looked at an old copy, and the website referenced above in Nov-2007 was not specific [enough] to me to be convinced (nor the case manu's either, who came out with "TSA Approved" cases with TSA locks). Now, the same webpage specifically states: "TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms." UEG was correct on his interpretation, and it is good to see the website explicitly state this. I recall when I contacted SKB regarding their "TSA Approved" cases, they did state that they would provide alternate locks, so if anybody has one of these cases I am sure they would send replacements, likely at no charge. These may not be current, but try: 714-637-1252 / cskahill@skbcases.com You know, technically, the "generic" locks used on some cases do not meet the "A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you" stipulation any better then the TSA locks.... | |||
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Larry Sellers The only thing wrong with using anything other than a TSA lock on you nongun checked baggage is that sometimes they will cut the zipper pulls instead of the wire ties. Thus ruining your bag. They did this to a friend of mine. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Exactly my point.  **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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NE 450, exactly what they did on my Filson duffle in Joburg. Cut the zipper pull and now it is back to Filson for repair. It had a small Master Lock on it. Of course the bag was coming through without me as it was two days behind me out of Dulles. | |||
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Bill C: Thanks for the info on SKB cases with TSA locks. Obviously, companies like SKB received inaccurate information from TSA when they placed the TSA locks on their gun cases. Or, more accurately, TSA subsequently changed its mind about TSA locks on gun cases. After all, this is an agency which has hired tens of thousands of otherwise unemployed/unemployable people at relatively low wages for undistinguished jobs. There have to be a lot of potential miscreants in the ranks of TSA (and among other airport personnel), any of which have (or can get) access to TSA keys. TSA figured out that it is not a good idea to have easily unlocked gun cases floating through their system. I'll put a call into SKB as soon as they are open this morning to see if I can get some replacement locks for my SKB case. | |||
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Whoa! I just talked to SKB and was told that they don't make a non-TSA lock for the gun cases which were originally equipped with TSA locks. This seems very odd, but the customer service representative I spoke with seemed to know exactly what my issue was and assured me that there is no non-TSA lock available for these cases. She said that if the existing locks were broken or failed that SKB could furnish me with new locks, but they would be TSA locks. This doesn't seem right, but that is what I was told. | |||
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I've seen this before and it brings up a couple of questions: 1. Does this also apply to local air travel in the US? 2. What does this mean for cases that come pre-equipped with TSA locks, such as the SKB cases? Does that mean they are no longer usable for air transit? Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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I sent an e-mail to SKB this morning with a suggestion on how they could make their rifle cases conform with TSA regulations. I received a reply that SKB had never gotten any notice that the TSA approved locks could not be used. They then said that if I wanted more security for an SKB case I should buy a luggage strap to put around the case. I sent a simple suggestion and got a smart-ass reply. SKB has their heads stuck in the sand on this. I would like to have one of their cases, but with their current attitude, screw-em. | |||
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NE 450 I agree that non TSA lock on bags can result in what you said. That's why I said, I only use TSA locks on my bags. I guess you read it wrong, no problem. If I had a SKB case and received this kind of negative reply, the case would be in the mail to them with a note stating fix it right or keep the damm case. JMTSW. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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That's too bad. Here's their email from 07, when they first made the switch: Perhaps they switched-over their production and do not have the "old" style locks available anymore, and/or the current cases are different. In any event, especially considering their response to MCM, they are in trouble... Re-reading the email, perhaps their "product engineers" did not comprehend that the cases used for usual baggage have different requirements then those used for firearms. Or, TSA sent mixed signals. I tried to email Chris Skahill but got a bounceback, I'm okay as I have the non-TSA case/locks, but I hope somebody has the time/energy and can push this issue w/SKB. Bill | |||
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Now SKB really has me pissed. I received an email from them pursuant to a second inquiry. In it they try to convince me that TSA really doesn't mean what they say, that I should just go ahead and use my case as is with its TSA locks because everybody they know has gotten away with it, and if I don't want to do that I can go buy a luggage strap to wrap around their case because they aren't about to make a non-TSA latch available for my case, end of story, goodbye. I can understand SKB's frustration with TSA after having gone to the trouble to produce TSA compliant locks then having TSA reverse itself, but to tell me to violate the plain language of TSA instructions and flippantly blow me off by sending me out for a luggage strap is insulting. | |||
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Stone - This just in: Perhaps once realization sets in, and it works its way up the ladder, they will put an appropriate program in place to take care of their customers. Bill | |||
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Thanks for the update, Bill! The email I received at 1:49 PM from the same Sara Walters was quite different from the one you received at 7:39 PM! I talked to a customer service representative before noon, PDT, today, and she (Sara?) seemed to be very well aware of the problem, said that SKB had no non-TSA lock that would fit my case, and told me to go buy a luggage strap. So I find their email stating that they were unaware of the TSA change until today somewhat lacking in credibility. Nonetheless, all I want is a "fix" for the problem. And I appreciate the wealth of information you have provided! | |||
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Larry Sorry I guess I did misunderstand, I thought you mentioned something about putting wire ties on you zippers. They make some TSA locks now that have an indicator that informes you if the lock has been opened with a TSA Key. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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450 NE - My thought and intention was to use TSA locks and plastic wire ties in combination on my checked bags. Hopefully if TSA would need to open them they would open the lock, snip the wire ties and then replace the lock. That way I would know if indeed the bags had been opened by someone and could do a quick check to see if anything was missing before continuing and file a claim, instead of making the discovery when arriving in the bush. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Being a little ignorant, I used TSA locks on my trip to Zim, overnighting in Jburg, in 2008. No problem except that opening and closing them so danged much was very difficult because it's hard to read the little bitty numbers in poor light. Also it was hard to tell which way was left and which right. One of them finally gave up entirely when I got back to Atlanta and I couldn't open it. The TSA guy opened it with his key. Next time I'm taking heavier padlocks with keys but will probably put TSA locks on my suitcases. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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My SKB that I took to Africa in 2006 has TSA locks on it...as I remember it was a big deal on the SKB web page that they had these great TSA compliant locks. I've got a friend whose case doesn't have TSA locks on it. I'm going to look at the two side by side...If they look like they'll interchange I'm hoping he'll let me try. This might take a couple of days depending on our schedules. Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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RVL - If it's a good friend?? Why not just borrow his case, leave yours as security and avoid changing locks? Maybe I missed something in the tranlation, but seems doable to me? Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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That will work if we don't go back together again. Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Just received another email from SKB apologizing for their advice to go buy a luggage strap. They now say that they are trying to obtain non-TSA locks to replace those on gun cases now in the field and further that they will send me a set when they have them available. It took a couple of days, but they finally got it right. I appreciate that they didn't just continue to blow it off. Now, we'll see how long it takes to get the replacement locks. Glad I don't have any hunting trips via commercial airliner planned in the near future. | |||
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Not to worry Stonecreek, I've got your back. You can borrow my tuff-pak if I'm not using it. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Travel Forum TSA locks on gun cases unacceptable.
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