Thanks Stonecreek, guess I'll get on the phone and get my name on the list too!

[Positive accolades reg SKB customer care deleted as apparently they are still giving their customers the run-around]

Actually, SKB should be most apppreciative of AR for making them aware of the new (clarified?) regulations.

Pls keep us updated on the progress.

I just got off of the phone with the 1-800 SKB customer service number and got a wonderful story. "The owner of the company and another of his officials went to their local airport and asked the TSA screener on duty if these locks were acceptable. That TSA person said that they were still accepting them. Both sides agreeded that TSA regs are cloudy at best. She then told me to get a luggage strap and padlock. Not an option I said that I would just return the case to Bass Pro. She indicated that that was an option also. Has anybody gotten a straight answer? In Writing??

Anyboddy wanna buy my SKB case ????

I just received an email reply from Sara (swalters@skbcases.com) stating just what I posted earlier. I now have in writing SKB's response to this situation to "buy a luggage strap." Never again will I spend my $$ with any company which has a corporate policy such as this.

Oh come on, give SKB a break! They found out 2 days ago and don't have a solution yet. If you want to place blame, place it where it belongs---dumbass TSA government employees! Change the rules, what do you expect. One point everything changed to TSA locks! They did so! Now that TSA changed the rules, give them some time to sort it out! I spoke to them today to. I don't have time to wait for a solution so I come up with my own and it is easy.


And before you start--No it's not the greatest idea in the world and I am sure there are plenty of things wrong with it, but I will guarantee it will get by TSA. And that is all it's for! Secure? No more than anything you can do! With anything you put on an airplane it can be broken easy! So that is not the point!

Michael

Woodmnctry

Yep, I will buy your case! Give you $50.00!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Bill C: Thanks for the info on SKB cases with TSA locks. Obviously, companies like SKB received inaccurate information from TSA when they placed the TSA locks on their gun cases. Or, more accurately, TSA subsequently changed its mind about TSA locks on gun cases.

After all, this is an agency which has hired tens of thousands of otherwise unemployed/unemployable people at relatively low wages for undistinguished jobs. There have to be a lot of potential miscreants in the ranks of TSA (and among other airport personnel), any of which have (or can get) access to TSA keys. TSA figured out that it is not a good idea to have easily unlocked gun cases floating through their system.

.

Stonecreek

My point exactly!

I just got off the phone with SKB. I have one of their cases and wanted to know about a potential fix. The guy told me that this just blew up on a blog 48 hours ago and they are working on it. He also told me they went to the airport and checked with TSA and they said it was not a problem. I told him you can't go by what an agent tells you. The rules are what apply. I had taken a print out of some TSA rules and Delta's rules with me when I went to Africa and had to show them at the airport because the agents didn't know the rules. They looked on the web site and decided I was right. The rep from SKB told me until it happens you don't have a problem. I told him that if I wait and push my luck I could be out an expensive trip. He didn't seem concerned. I will not buy another SKB product just due to his attitude. This AR forum is great.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Woodmnctry

Yep, I will buy your case! Give you $50.00!

Michael

Sorry -------that's too much!
G

I have also had several email exchanges with Sara --- the official response -- "luggage strap"--- now there is a positive customer relation response --- what a friggen joke!

G

quote:

Sorry -------that's too much!
G

Michael

I have traveled with SKB cases since 1997, and currently have 4. One of the giant ones that holds 4 rifles, but that was days past when one was not limited to 50 lbs! The case weighs 30lbs! I have two of the 2 gun cases, 1 without TSA locks, but a buddy of mine has it currently with some of my rifles on the road! One handgun case, and of course the famous TSA lock case! So unless my pal gets back before I leave for Australia next week I had to come up with something to get past TSA, and I think the above solution will do that!

No way I want to get to my destination and find out some dumbass with TSA didn't load my rifles! Want to talk about a wild dog fit!

Anyway, have made many many trips with SKB cases and never once had any sort of damage! On more than one occasion I actually watched baggage handlers throw my gun case up and bounce in the baggage compartment of the plane! I had concerns, but no problems ever!

I am sure SKB will do their best to come up with something, luggage strap? Well I think they could do better than that, I was told the same thing too.

Who has to travel in the next week or so?

I think if you do, better make a plan! And no NEVER EVER TRUST WHAT TSA SAYS IN ONE AIRPORT--BECAUSE THE NEXT GUY YOU TALK TO IS A DIFFERENT STORY. And as far as that goes that is ANY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE, Customs, any of them!

Ask 10 of them a question, I promise you will get 12 different answers!

Michael

I ALWAYS carry a current copy of the TSA, and airlines rules.

Actually I carry 2 copies.

NE450

Excellent Idea! I have always carried at least one copy, but the problem is I have yet to find one of them that could read, much less comprehend what was written!

Michael

I think AR needs to add a new forum for TSA Regulations and Changes? Maybe even post a copy of the Firearm regs that we can copy?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I ALWAYS carry a current copy of the TSA, and airlines rules. Actually I carry 2 copies.

Good idea. However, in this instance, the TSA printed advisory tells the agent not to let your gun on the plane if it is in an SKB case equiped only with TSA locks.

SKB is responding to this issue (although their response has been somewhat uneven and uncertain), and I am sure now that they have seen the actual TSA printed advisory that they will make non-TSA locks available to retrofit their TSA-equipped cases as soon as practical.

SKB was attempting to "do the right thing" by putting TSA locks on their cases in the first place (one of the reasons I chose their case over a competitors). I appreciate that TSA's change of heart has created a big problem for SKB; a problem that will undoubtedly cost them money and create some hard feelings among their customers. I will reserve judgement until they have had a reasonable time to offer the retrofit.

Speaking of carrying a copy of an agency's regulations: I had to go to the fifth level of supervisor at the city's central U.S. Post Office in order to find someone who could read their own handbook and admit that it is legal for me to mail a long gun to an FFL licensee. If you just stand there, smile pleasantly, and tell them "I'm very confident that I am correct. Could you please check with your supervisor?," it may take a half an hour, but you will finally prevail. The problem is that you have to have the half-hour to invest in teaching them their own regulations.

At least dealing with the government is better than some in the private sector. My wife spent three hours yesterday teaching Blue Cross that they were, indeed, liable for $4,000 in charges, not her. She should send them a bill for her time (after they are criminally indicted for fraud, that is.)

We must all remember the retards working for TSA were hired en masse about 6-7 years ago. Mostly welfare pukes and others too lazy to look for work until Uncle Sugar GAVE them a job.
So no matter how officious they try to act, they all have the same seniority and IQ. Both numbers are interchangeable.

Just my opinion--- and I value it highly.

Trophyman

BTW, straight from the SKB website here's their solution:

* Recent modifications on TSA's website state that "TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms." We are in the process of ascertaining when this change was implemented and for what reason. We have corresponded with TSA officials to find out why their organization doesn't approve of TSA locks only when applied to particular cargo. We are awaiting a response.

Discussions with the TSA supervisor at Long Beach, CA airport revealed that he was unaware of the change. In fact, he supported the effectiveness of the TSA locks stating that they made their jobs easier.

To change your TSA locks into non-TSA locks is a very simple procedure. Simply take a pocketknife and remove the sticker with the key code number and red and white "Travel Sentry Diamond" from the front of the latches. This will prevent the specific key code identification of the lock making it a non-TSA lock.


Ummm, come now. Scraping the sticker off is going to make it good?

quote:

retards working for TSA

To change your TSA locks into non-TSA locks is a very simple procedure. Simply take a pocketknife and remove the sticker with the key code number and red and white "Travel Sentry Diamond" from the front of the latches. This will prevent the specific key code identification of the lock making it a non-TSA lock.


Ummm, come now. Scraping the sticker off is going to make it good?

Robert

Read what Trophyman says and you will understand completely!

SKB has come up with a simple and full proof solution to the issue, I can't believe I didn't think of that! It is PERFECTION!

Non TSA Lock----Take the TSA STICKER OFF!!!




Michael

Gotta understand the legal system... FOr a TSA lock to be legal, it must have the TSA number designation, if it doesn't, it is technically no longer a TSA lock. Personally, I'd rather the screening personally be supervised by armed guards with itchy trigger fingers and a bonus for every thief they catch.

John

Seems to me that SKB is dropping the ball here.

They should either offer different non TSA locks, for free, or for their cost, that can be fitted to their cases by the consumer.

TSA has a ring of master keys. They look at a lock with a number like 4 or 9 or 2, pick there right key and open it. By removing the identifying number you simply make them have to try them all until they hit a winner. I would not be satisfied with this "fix" from SKB.

BTW, straight from the SKB website here's their solution:

* Recent modifications on TSA's website state that "TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms." We are in the process of ascertaining when this change was implemented and for what reason. We have corresponded with TSA officials to find out why their organization doesn't approve of TSA locks only when applied to particular cargo. We are awaiting a response.

They must really be a bunch of Morons. Federal regulations have NEVER APPROVED of TSA locks securing firearms. They might try looking back to at least 2001. The federal regulations requiring non-TSA locks and further requiring that only the owner of the firearm case possess a key to that case have been in effect for at least that long and perhaps longer, and THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN CHANGED. Sounds like a "cover my ass" statement by SKB, for violating federal regulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
BTW, straight from the SKB website here's their solution:

* Recent modifications on TSA's website state that "TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms." We are in the process of ascertaining when this change was implemented and for what reason. We have corresponded with TSA officials to find out why their organization doesn't approve of TSA locks only when applied to particular cargo. We are awaiting a response.

They must really be a bunch of Morons. Federal regulations have NEVER APPROVED of TSA locks securing firearms. They might try looking back to at least 2001. The federal regulations requiring non-TSA locks and further requiring that only the owner of the firearm case possess a key to that case have been in effect for at least that long and perhaps longer, and THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN CHANGED. Sounds like a "cover my ass" statement by SKB, for violating federal regulations.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, I remember having to buy TSA locks and put them on the gun case, and make sure the non TSA locks were unlocked. I would go through the special inspection, they would put a seal on the case, and when I showed up at the destination, the seal was broken, luckily nothing was broke or missing. All this on a domestic flight. Its up to you, but you may want to cut them some slack as they figure out the direction TSA is going before the invest hundereds of thousands of dollars and direct their clients to do something that might hold them up on their next trip.

John

quote:

They must really be a bunch of Morons. Federal regulations have NEVER APPROVED of TSA locks securing firearms. They might try looking back to at least 2001. The federal regulations requiring non-TSA locks and further requiring that only the owner of the firearm case possess a key to that case have been in effect for at least that long and perhaps longer, and THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN CHANGED.

This has allways been my understanding of the regulations, at least since 2003 when I first traveled over to Africa. My guess is that someone at SKB went and asked one TSA official and got his own personal interpretation of the regulation. Which is a huge mistake since you can ask a dozen of TSA folk and get a dozen different answers. I have allways used non-TSA locks and never had a problem.

I have never used TSA Locks on a gun case.

In fact, next time I airplane travel to a destination where it is legal for me to have a gun, I will pack a gun in all of my checked luggage, even if it is a broken 22 rifle so I can lock up all of my stuff.

Last time I went to Zim I had 2 tuff packs with guns in both, and ammo in both.

With all due respect, the federal regulations have been the same for every hunter regardless of where they lived in the United States. I have carried a copy of them since 2002, printed fresh each and every year, right off of TSA's very own website, and they have never changed. Reviewing, printing and carrying a copy of TSA's regs is the very best way to avoid an issue and an unknowledgeable TSA agent who takes it upon himself to create his own protocol and procedures.

UEG is absolutely correct.

quote:

With all due respect, the federal regulations have been the same for every hunter regardless of where they lived in the United States. I have carried a copy of them since 2002, printed fresh each and every year, right off of TSA's very own website, and they have never changed.

It is true that the regulations have not changed, but TSA's own interpretation of them HAS changed. A "strict constructionist" reading of the regulations has always, by inference, disallowed a lock to which someone else besides the traveler has the key (including TSA itself). However, until recently TSA has not interpreted that TSA locks did not qualify. It is only in a very recent advisory -- not new regulation -- that TSA has made this determination.

I'm sure that SKB relied on what they were original told by TSA when they started putting TSA locks on their gun cases. Now they (and we) will have to rely on something elsed that TSA is telling them. Regulations are the same for everyone; interpretations of regulations, unfortunately, can and do vary.

Just returned from a fishing trip to Alaska where it is a must to carry. I debated and used the TSA locks. On the way home I had a chance to visit with the TSA agent in Anchorage. They process more checked guns per capita that any other airport in the system. He said " We don't care as long as it is locked". I always carry the other locks and stay "in touch" with my bag until they have processed it. My goal has always been to roll with the punches and get the bag processed. I simply don't wish to debate with anyone from TSA. I do take UEG's point.

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this and I don't think this is any kind of re-interpritation of an existing regulation. I know that at least since 2005 the regulation has stated that the case must be locked and ONLY the owner is to have the key.

Any update from SKB?

Also, can someone post the link to where all this is mentioned on their web page?

Thanks!

Here is the link to the TSA website in which they state, quote "The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion..."

Read full details at :

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/a.../editorial_1666.shtm

Hope this helps!!

The really operative part of this TSA notice as posted above (I posted this on page 1 of this thread) is the last sentence under bullet point 5, that states clearly

"TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms."

This has been beat to death and the answer doesn't change, no matter what anybodies personal experience on a given trip may have been.

I guess I wasn't clear, I meant the link on the SKB website where they make mention of this problem.