That was kind of like stepping in gum!

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
When you think of owning a custom rifle is it more important to you that you have exactly what you want or is it more important to you that you have a custom rifle made by a certain person.

Or, to put it another way, if you could order the exact same gun, with the same components, from many different makers at the exact same price, with the exact same level of after sale service, would it make a difference to you as to which person made the gun.

And, if the exact same thing were made by many different makers, but at varying cost levels, would you choose based on cost or based on the maker. Exact same product!

I'd say it depends entirely on the type of custom rifle you have made. If it's a precision rifle based on a 700 Remington using off-the-shelf precision components plus machine work to blueprint the action, etc., then I'd probably buy based on price. Rifle makers figured out the 700 a long time ago and the book of tricks is well known.

If we're talking about a fine blue and walnut bolt action, the I'd choose by the maker. You will NOT get the exact same product from those guys because they all do things differently, so that criteria is not realistic. If you have any question about that, then see http://www.hallowellco.com/magazine.htm

In either case, I'd present my ideas to the smith then listen very closely to what he had to say about them. I frequently get my head up my ass when it comes to stuff like this and the voice of reason is a lot more valuable than you'd think.


Okie John

quote:

You will NOT get the exact same product from those guys because they all do things differently, so that criteria is not realistic.

I thought the whole idea of a custom gun is that
you could get what you wanted.

Lindy,
Show me two "identical" custom rifles at vastly different prices and I'll answer your question. I believe the issue is that you can't identify the differences between the rifles.

We have all been trying to tell him that

I tried to warn you guys, again, don't feed the trolls.

Gentlemen

I posed the hypothetical question to solicit an opinion on whether price or maker could be more important to a person who was in the market for a custom gun. In order to do that I made an attempt to remove all other variables from the equation so that only two choices remained, maker or price. There was no intent on my part to upset anyone.

Now a number of very esteemed custom rifle builders and custom rifle owners have responded.

And I have the answer to my question. So lets just close this down.

Thank you to those who responded with their thoughtful insights, thank you to all who otherwise posted, and thank you to those who wrote me very nice personal messages.

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:

quote:

You will NOT get the exact same product from those guys because they all do things differently, so that criteria is not realistic.

I thought the whole idea of a custom gun is that you could get what you wanted.

It is, and when it comes to the first type of rifle I described above, that's not hard to do. You can get what you want down to the torque specs on the bolts.

The second type of rifle is more problematic. Take wrist dimensions. Some makers cut their stocks to have a long open wrist, like this: http://www.hallowellco.com/his...agazine%20rifles.htm

Others prefer a tighter wrist: http://www.hallowellco.com/harry_lawson___338.htm

And these are just the side views--you also have to consider the cross-section. Some are very slim, others are chunky. Then there's how they handle the cheekpiece, the comb and its flutes (if any), the forend, the checkering, and about a million other details. ALL of those things combine to make rifles by one specific maker almost instantly recognizable. Someone who's been doing this for a while can tell a stock by Biesen from a stock by Jerry Fisher or any of a dozen other makers from across the room. All of these makers develop a trademark style, and if you try to get them to move very far from that, then a lot of them will refuse the job. And that's just stock work. Metal smiths are a whole 'nother deal.

A local smith who doesn't have a signature style will build whatever you want. You can find their rifles for sale used in pawnshops all over the country for not much money. But when you're talking about the very highest level of blue and walnut rifles, you hire a rifle maker to build the kind of rifle that he builds, not the kind of rifle that you want. The trick is to research those makers until you find a guy who does the kind of work you like and you buy that. They DO allow you some flexibility in little things, like picking between a shadow-line cheekpiece and a pancake cheekpiece, but by and large, you hire them to build you a rifle in their signature style.

You'll have a very hard time getting one of those guys to go against the style that's his trademark.


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
Again, if you can get it (exactly what you want) from a number of different makers and the only difference is the price point, do you choose by maker or do you choose by price. Simple question. Two possible answers: maker or price.

Many of us have learned the hard lesson that when it comes time to sell a custom rifle (and that time comes for ALL of them), you are far better off if the gunmaker is (or was) well known. Buying a custom rifle from a poorly known maker because it is less money is not a wise choice in the long-run. Buying a previously owned rifle from a well known maker may be a wise choice if it has all the features you want. Let the first owner take the hit--and the hit is generally pretty big much of the time.

Over the years I have both ordered custom rifles made to my own specifications and bought custom rifles made for someone else. The latter I treasure as works of art, the former as ergonomic jewels. I have owned probably a dozen Griffin & Howe sporters in my lifetime. Only one was stocked to my specifications, and on it the metal work was done by someone else.

The reason was that the rifle belonged originally to an old friend of mine who was left handed and I was right handed at the time. Ironically, a problem with my right eye has forced me to switch shoulders, so I would have been better off keeping the original stock.

I have owned twelve or thirteen rifles built to my specifications by metalsmith Harry Creighton and stock maker Hal Hartley. Since I am now pushing age 80 and no longer have any use for the majority of calibers represented by those creations, I have let them go to make room for other acquisitions.

I bought the rifles custom made for me to perform specific tasks. The custom rifles made for someone else caught my eye and begged me to take them home, although I had nothing specific in mind for them. I am fighting off an urge to succumb to another such entreaty at the present time, and cannot predict what the outcome will be.

I have commissioned two guns from a maker who is a bit green in the business, but well respected by several clients. I have also collected more than several examples of a maker's work that was not commissioned by me. All are wonderful and fit me as well as any gun could.

quote:

Originally posted by lowgun:
I have commissioned two guns from a maker who is a bit green in the business, but well respected by several clients. I have also collected more than several examples of a maker's work that was not commissioned by me. All are wonderful and fit me as well as any gun could.

So your answer is the maker over the price?