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Howdy Gents, Can someone tell me what Mauser action this rifle is built on? Sorry for the poor photo, serial number I think, is A200368 or something like that. Thanks,  Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | ||
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From the photo it looks like an old commercial square bridge. A good smith could get the same effect starting with an FN commercial action and adding a rear square bridge. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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Thanks! I will get the seller to pull the barreled action and look for proof marks and such. One of our resident Mauser experts (z1r) said it might be a Santa Barbara action with an added-on square bridge. The rifle has very nice engraving, a cool octagonal barrel, and a very nice stock on it, said to maybe made by an old-school guy, Earl Miliron. Hard to believe anyone would do that sort of work on a third rate action. Hopefullly there are still some proofs and I'll find out more about it. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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I wonder why he would have thought that it was a SB action instead of a MK-X or an FN. Maybe the serial number???? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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There were a few FN actions that came into the USA that were unfinished and I think maybe even unserial numbered. I have seen a couple in a shop in the US. It could be one of those. JC Penny, Seasr etc sold rifles built on these same actions, but in a finished state obviously, for very modest sums. | |||
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Jason, yes, Mike thought perhaps Santa Barbara because of the placement of serial number although he also thinks SB did not have serial numbers that long. He also thought it might be Interarms. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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here's what I said: "Two makers used SN's like that: Santa Barbara and Interarms. SB marked them in that location but I don't remember them being 7 digits long, usually only 5. Interarms did use up to 7 digits but usually marked the receiver on the front ring ahead of the ejection port. It could have been an Interarms that was surface ground and the SN added back to the left side." It could also be an FN, but of course the SN would hve to have been made up and added. If someone simply moved the SN then it points to an Interarms action. Given no more than the two pics that show only the SN as a marking, it is mere speculation. Pics of the underside of the action could easily resolve whether it is an FN or not.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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It's hard to tell from the picture, but I don't see any front scope base mount holes. Also, the safety is of a military form. That would seem like a lot of work to go to to back engineer an Interarms or Santa Barbara, when it would be easier to start with an old FN or military. | |||
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More photos of the Mauser. As Mike said I think once I can get some photos of the action out of the stock it will help solve the mystery. It looks like someone put a lot of work into this rifle. I'd be happy if it turns out to be an FN. Heck, probably someone on AR used to own this rifle anyway and can recognize it.             Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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Like filing in the stripper clip slot and thumbcut is easier? The safety & shroud simply screw on & are very retro in keeping with the overall look and feel of the rifle. Heck, I just got an FN commercial that someone replaced the shroud on with one from a military Mauser. No way to know for sure without more info (pictures) of markings to help indentify. I still lean toward an Interarms as the SN fits as does the notch in the front ring. I've seen far more interarms .375"s than I have FN's so I can't recall if the FN also notched teh front ring. Of course it could just be the 58th rifle someone produced in the year 2003? Whatever it is, its very nice. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Frequently students at one of the major gunsmithing schools will choose a cheaper action for a project rifle. Some of these rifles have excellant workmanship, though not done by a well known smith. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I have a Sako with the 1951 FN action in 375H&H. It does have the notch in the front ring. I agree that the serial number most likely points to a MK-X. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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this gun was at cabelas for a while they might have some info,,,paul | |||
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Thanks for clarifying that. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I had a 375 H&H rifle built by A&M on an FN Supreme that had the notch too. Makes sense when you think about Zastava starting up on FN tooling. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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it sure is beautiful My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them. -Winston Churchill | |||
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Actually, I bought a Mk X barreled action in 375 and built a custom when they were selling them. When it arrived, it turned out to be a Whitworth marked barreled action whith the high polish blue. Oddly, it didn't have the express sights that the completed express rifles had. It also definitely wasn't notched in the front ring. | |||
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Ask Frank M. but all the Factory made .375 Interarms/Whitworths that I've seen were notched. Conversions from short mags are common and the tell tale sign that it isn't factory is the lack of the notch. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Mine was bought through a dealer, brand spanking new, had all the Whitworth markings, and looked exactly like the factory finish. It had no notch. Unless it was converted internally by the factory, not all of them were. | |||
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I don't believe it is a pre-war Oberndorf single square bridge. The bridge does not look the same. Also, SSB Oberndorfs w/o thumb cuts are extremely rare. Probably someone added the bridge to a Mark X or FN commercial. Very nice rifle all the same. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Thanks guys for all the great info. I hope to get the proofmarks and such next month and I will update. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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Without seeing the proofs all speculation is pure mental masturbation. | |||
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I've never seen ONE interarms markX or charles daly, or remington action notched in 375 .. as they are the SAME action, only cut underneath to accomodate the longer shells. as for never seeing one, here you go.. http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=260914673 while it could happen,that is is a zastava, though.. the closeup of the rear bridge appears to be two tignfilled discolorations, and teh side rail MIGHT have been ground to remove the billboard... could have been.. or could have been an FN or legacy masure, even. It appears the rear bridge is soldered on, from the front, but that might just be dust... no way to tell, really, till you have it out of the stock.. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeff, my 375 Whitworth is notched. Can't get to 458 Whitworth cause it is in back of safe but I think it is notched too, even though it doesn't need the extra length.  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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reckon that makes mike and i both wrong.. aint the first time i have been. hope its not the last  opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The "notch" is actually not needed for ejection of an empty case. And...it CAN be loaded without said notch. The "notch" gives the whoops room for for quick changes...like from softs to solids in the field. Personally, I think the notch is required for dangerous game application when there just may not be a lot of time to "dink around" | |||
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My 458 Whitworth is NOT notched. It's not the English proofed Whitworth. Just the plain vanilla Whitworth. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Duane, we are talking about the thumb notch, not the notch some people put in the back of the front ring opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Given that the .458's OAL is the same as an '06, it's not surprising that the receiver isn't notched. Never had a .458 come through my shop so I can't comment on them. This .375 just came in and it is notched. It was factory original when it arrived.   Maybe they do make em without the notch but all the Interarms/Whitworth .375's I've seen had the notch. It wouldn't surprise me though. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Actually, I said: "I still lean toward an Interarms as the SN fits as does the notch in the front ring." Never seen an Interarms with a thumbcut that I didn't put there. I was talking about the notch that Duane is talking about, the one at the rear of the front receiver ring. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Jeffe (I may be reading you wrong) We were talking about the notch on the rear of the front ring. No one(except you, I believe) was talking about the thumb-notch on the side rail. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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yeah, i ran off at the mouth, it seems opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I am curious though if others have factory original Interarms rifles in .375 without the receiver notch? In the grand scheme of things the sample size I have seen is pretty small, a couple dozen at best. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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458 Whitworth:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Good to know, thanks. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I am satisfied that it is a really nice built up single square bridge rifle of an early make based on the workmanship of the metal and stock design...What it is, we can only speculate. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My 458 Whitworth is different from these. It is marked Whitworth across the front ring and is NOT marked down the TOP of the left rail. It also is NOT marked Mark X and has NO british proofs. Stock is correct and recoil padis a rubber marked Whitworth. All other markings are the same as are the sights. The front ring is NOT notched as this one is. I had a 375 and it was not notched either. It was marked exactly the same as this 458. They are the only 2 Whitworth's I have ever seen. I've led a sheltered life. I do also have an original single square bridge Mauser. It was a Westley Richards 318 action and is so marked. It has a thumb slot in the left rail for clip loading and the front ring is not notched but cut away on the right side. It's like they ran the mill in for the notch and then just continued to remove the right side.It starts following the left rail and continue down to the right rail. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Thanks again everyone for the great information. So, to follow up, let's say this rifle was built on a decent action such as an Interarms, not something third rate like a Santa Barbara. It has nice quality wood and metal work. What sort of range of price would be fair? Thanks! Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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I'm probably the last person on this forum to put a price on a custom rifle as I pay what I think something is worth to me NOT what it is worth on the 'market'. I have only had 2 rifle built to my specs in all my years. Most of mine I have built myself or bought those built for others. My first commissioned rifle was more or less the same specs as the one shown less the engraving. Built by a good friend who is well known. I traded a Geyger double rifle in 8x60RS for it. Market value of the Geyger at the time was probably several thousand. I really like this rifle so would probably pay far more than most for it. Name is not the game for me as if the quality of work is to my standards I could care less who built it. This one has features I would have ordered and is in a caliber I prefer so it has great appeal to me. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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