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I asked a question about the best time to buy a custom rifle. I am curious about what some feel has been the best value in a custom rifle. (I do not mean the cheapest. I mean the best value - the one custom rifle that you feel you got or get the most value from for your money. Just one Custom. | ||
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Wayne at AHR on his conversion packages #1,2,3. I very much like my Dakotas too, but for VALUE, I think it's AHR. | |||
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Buying somebody else's custom they no longer want. Quit often you pay between 50 to 60 cents on the dollar. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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What Mike said above. That too!! | |||
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Like I said, when I paid less than 50 cents on the dollar for a fine Wiebe 270 on a model 70 winchester action. Thing shot 1/2 inch groups with factory ammo gorgeous custom stock and I paid ~$2000 for it about 10+ years ago. Of course it got stolen. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have commissioned custom rifles and bought used custom rifles. Best value is a subjective term. The used rifles were great values and have provided lots of enjoyment. However, my favorites are those rifles I personally commissioned. Knowing they were built specifically for me, to my measurements, with all the features I requested and with wood I chose just makes those rifles extra special. They are better balanced for me and are more an extension of me. For these reasons they have a special significance used customs just won’t have. | |||
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The best value I obtained in a custom rifle was by building it myself. | |||
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OK lindy2, now I understand your query. In that case, I guess it would be my Dakota Safari in 404 Jeffery. It was built to my specs with wood I picked out. It is the best balanced big bore that I own. Everytime I pick it up, I always smile feeling that balance plus the light weight (8.5 lbs.). It was an absolute joy carrying it in Zambia on my last two hunts with Andrew. I took two Buffalo with it, one each safari. It only has open sights, so no extra weight with a scope, rings, & bases. The front sight is a flourescent red that my eyes pick up in any light. I have many big bores in about ten calibers, but this 404 Jeffery is my favorite. My second favorite custom is my Dakota Classic Deluxe in 35 Whelen. I bought it used at Cabela's in NE years ago. I sent it back to Dakota to have a barrel band front swivel installed, and also to have it throated to use both 275 SAF and Woodleigh 310 soft & solids. It shoots 250 gr. and heavier very accurately. It has a 1:12 twist. I took these two rifles with me on my last hunt with Andrew. The 404 took the Buffalo, and the Whelen took Leopard, and about five other PG animals. A very satisfying 2-rifle battery of a big & medium bore, in beautiful custom rifles, at least IMHO.  | |||
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If you are not talking about greatest value as getting a good deal, then the greatest value is a personal value that can only be measured, justified and felt by the actual owner that commissioned the project. Some people enjoy the finer things in life and others see no value in them (yet they will quickly point out the folly in your purchase). I have commissioned several custom rifles, handguns and knives. I did this because I wanted them and I wanted the full custom, personalized experience. My personal value of them far exceeds the monetary value and only I will ever understand and feel that. I do not have buyer's remorse on any of these purchases and I made them knowing full well they will never have an actual monetary value of what I spent on them. The greatest value to me is the experience. Made for me. In every one of my custom projects I selected a craftsman that understood the value of the experience and they exceeded my expectations. I appreciate and value the work and skill of the person that is making it. Being handed that custom piece for the first time can only be explained and understood by someone that feels the same passion. That feeling continues and grows every time you touch it and every time you use it. Yet all of this is a personal value that many cannot understand or feel. By your questions it appears as if you are contemplating a custom rifle. I tell everyone, if you want it, you have the money and think you deserve it, go for it and others opinions be damned. If you don't love and appreciate yourself, it is hard to justify and enjoy the finer things in life. Safe travels.............L | |||
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My own 375/404. I designed it, I built it, I have been hunting with it for so many years, I will never sell it for any price  | |||
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lindy, Is this what you want. My best bargin-A local business person "transmission shop owner" gave me a mod 36 Winchester 9mm shotgun, a Weatherby semi automatic shotgun, a Weatherby 300 Weatherby Mag new in the box with a beautiful wood stock, a 141 Remington 22rf,and a couple others. You do not sell gifts. | |||
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Most custom rifles on an auction site. Let someone else take the depreciation. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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+1
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Like Saeed, the labor of love I put in building my own custom rifles, However I only recently built myself a second one, the rest I sold, the two I kept are a 7x57 G33-40 SR Mauser, and a 6x45 Sako L-461 RT... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Depends on what you want in a custom rifle. If you want the beauty of a wood stock, I'd find some of the gunmakers on their way up who are not yet charging the prices of the established gunmakers. Or you can buy used, but its not easy to find a well priced, high quality rifle from a known top tier maker that does not have something strange about it. I think the good ones go to friends and never get to the used market. I would look at some of Sterling Davenports rifles. If you want straight accuracy and performance, there are a lot of gunsmiths like GAP, Short Action Customs, Charlie Sisk, that can build you an extremely accurate rifle in a synthetic stock for a price much lower than a wood stocked rifle or synthetic stocked rifle from some of the well known custom guys. I think this angle is a great value. | |||
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put me in this boat....it's not a bad boat to be in. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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As much as I dearly love my 30-06 that was put together by a dear friend, I will have to say that Ole Ugly, the 458 I built almost 40 years ago and that has saved my bacon many times, has given me the most value ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Makes perfect sense!  | |||
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I built the rifle for myself and now after using it for nearly 40 years, when I throw it up the sights are already on the target . Even with the scope covers on I can easily make hits out to 50 yards by instinct. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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My best valued custom rifle is a Turnbull manufactured 1886 Winchester. It was purchased on the initial offering of the gun. It has a 36 inch barrel, shotgun butt and the Turnbull color case finish they are fameous for. It also has the antique style winchester stain. It was chambered in 50-110 Winchester. If you will, a remake of a late 1800's buffalo rifle. I have 2 other custom Turnbull lever actions and a model 70 winchester from the custom shop. The 70, I have been told is the only one of its kind ever made. | |||
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Get Duane Wiebe to build your dream rifle. Want for nothing once. Beg, borrow, cheat and steal to get it done. Cheaper in the long run. | |||
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I would have to say my 6.5-06AI. Long story, but I will make it short. I had several conversations with Matt at Hill Country Rifles. Little did I know my wife was listening intently and, in fact, taking notes. One day we were having dinner and she told me that I had better get to driving in the morning since my new rifle was ready and I would have to go to New Braunfels to get it. She already had it paid for, including 3x10 Leupold and hard case. I drove there in a day and back in a day. It is a Winchester action, Douglas Air Gauged barrel that is stainless but has been Black Ice Teflon coated. Since she knew I liked to make my own stocks, she had them put it in a leftover stock for testing. I made the stock out of English walnut with rosewood tip and cap. It shoots very well. Not giving that one up for anything. That was 15 years ago. The value...some would say that since it cost me nothing it was a great value. She says it cost me a dining room set, two kids college tuition and a trip to St. George Utah on our anniversary. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I did the same thing with a rifle in 358 Win. Built the rifle up and sent it to Vapodog who installed a new bolt handle and sights. I can throw the rifle up with my eyes closed and the sights are lined up every time. Vapo did a great job and this rifle will never wear a scope. Shots lights out for me. The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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Lindy2 You ask why I value it so much? Well after a number of custom built rifles, which includes more than a handfull I cobbled together myself. The rifle Duane built for me is the best on many levels. You start off putting these rifles together and much of the time after completion they fall short in some small way. Duane's rifle has been put through the paces here and there and for a bolt rifle it suits me perfectly. And after 10 years I still can't find anything I would change. That's a non typical experience in a rifle at least for me. | |||
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Duane Wiebe rifle for under $3,600 http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100920385 I should sell all my rifles and buy this and not look back. | |||
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$3,800. Rediculous this rifle is available for this price. | |||
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I have had access to several rifles that ranged from factory standard to full blown customs. I'd feel very uncomfortable using an Al Biesen rifle so if I owned it, it would draw dust in the safe, which wouldn't be fair to the rifle or the Mr Biesen, regardless as to the purchase price. the rifles that I find get the most use are factory rifles or factory rifles that I have had rebarrelled for a relatively small cost. With these I can use them as they were intended without fear of causing thousands of dollars in depreciation due to slipping on some rocks. so for me, the best value in a custom rifle is a factory rifle that has received some modifications for fit and maybe a barrel chambered for an otherwise unavailable cartridge. | |||
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Ray...I would caution using that as a rule. Some factory (beater guns) have a way of becoming quite valuable down the road For what it's worth, looked at the rifle on Guns Internaional..To be fair, i's a pretty early gun...Heck..the owner may be making money on it! | |||
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Cast this one in concrete Lindy, but I actually agree with you...except.... a 4WD rig is more like $50000 now. For myself, I don't worry about using a Mke Williams custom knife in my custom cross draw scabbard,I fully utilize my Leitz binoculars. ditto with Ray Bans and expensive boots... My $1500.00 tent gets snowed and rained upon! yeah...I don't get it! | |||
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Since we are talking about trucks and guns, shortly after my Lon Paul 30-06 arrived I was at our cabin near Circle Hot Springs my son and we took the rifle and a couple hundred rounds of ammunition with us when we went wood cutting. The rifle rode in the window gun rack on our 1974 F-250 and , Always quick with a witty comment, he noted that " you might be a red neck, or Alaskan, if your rifle is worth more than twice what your pickup is worth " Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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lindy2 - It appears to me that you are very adept at making judgments about other people's intents and values with very little evidence. I have very little of the things that you mention as things that depreciate like mad. My 1986 F350 has been bottomed out for years, the 1958 Randall Model 4 6" won't have it's value affected by one more sharpening and my 1949 B&L Zephyrs are properly cared for so their use is not an issue. I am comfortable using all of these things as I am comfortable using a plain Jane rifle or shotgun. I could go running up and down the hills with an expensive rifle or shotgun, but it would be a distraction and as such, using it has less value to me than the comfort of using one that has quality but is non-unique. | |||
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Lots of comfort in an old truck...easier to maintain and nobody wants to steal it | |||
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I promise that does not ring true as you near closer to the border of Mexico. Old trucks are stolen frequently due to the ease of doing so. http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847 A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC 682-554-0044 Michael08TDK@yahoo.com | |||
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Back to rifles; I have no desire to own anything someone else built. None. Anyone with money can do that.; it is buying art because a new $350 savage will perform as well or better. in the field. Well, except some double rifles which are hard to build. Not that there is anything wrong with buying expensive toys. Remember, these are luxury items made for the rich. And indebted. If you want pride of ownership, value (not appreciation), and utility, make one yourself. Farm out the parts you can't do, but there is a lot an amateur can do. I have seen some god awful creations that guys thought were great, and they were good with them. That's all that matters in the end, as you can't take it with you and your estate sale will dump them for nothing anyway. I see it all the time. Just the way I look at it. | |||
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Either way, it appears to me that you are making judgments based on very little information. I am only making one judgment and so far, I've seen nothing in your posts to dissuade that conclusion. | |||
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The ones I value most are the ones that took the most creativity to build. And there are many of them; I value my Mosin rear bolt conversions almost as much as a custom Mauser. Standard rifles are just work; all the same. To me, as far as how they are done. Patience, skill,, talent; that's pretty much it. I certainly do not under estimate any work of art done by anyone; it takes many hours of tedious work to make them and they need to be paid for all those hours. Now, anyone can sand and finish a stock; even polish and rust blue, so anyone can participate in a custom build. | |||
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OK,thank you for letting me know. | |||
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dpcd Do you use your custom rifles for hunting? | |||
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Yes but realize if I scratch one of my $3500 rifles I can always fix it if I want to, and I don't mind. Same with a $12K double rifle; scratches and blue wear is part of using them. So, you either get emotionally attached to them and treat them as an object d'art, or they are tools to be used. Everyone has their own way of looking at anything they paid money for. For which they paid money. The thing not to do is try to use custom rifles as investments. Most won't make any money; but lose much of it; but that is not the point. Owning something unique and made to order is always the draw for them. | |||
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