Well, we know you don't see cheek pieces much
at all on shotguns. Not on the highest of the
high end nor the brands for the regular income
crowd. And we know the bespoken gun has custom
stock dimensions for the new owner to have the
most "naturally on target" mount when those birds
suddenly fly into range. So if the cheek piece is
not needed for that sort of quick mount and fire
shooting why is it seen so often on double rifles,
ESPECIALLY THE BIG STOPPING CALIBERED ONES?
I guess I am asking if it really helps one to shoot
the rifle more accurately when the dangerous game
is charging suddenly out of thick cover; or shoot
more accurately in general.

i find that a cheekpiece helps with recoil - reason is that i have rather pronounced cheekbones & the cheekpiece provides a bit of a wider area for recoil without thickening the entire stock.

In my opinion a well proportioned cheekpiece just helps fill in the void below the cheek bone.

On bolt guns, it's difficult to get the "weld" with a scope, so there's an aid in alignment./

Perhaps the best reason of all is that it just looks good! (someone had to say it!)

Thanks to both of you!

Duane's look exceptionly good on his builds!

Rigby and Jeffery built numerous rifles without seeing the need for an cheekpiece.

Harry Selby hunted with his .416 Rigby Bolt rifle for several decades in such form,though he did personally reshape/modify [thin] the stock more to his liking.
WDM Bells .275 Rigby and .318WR Thomas Bland, did not have a cheekpiece.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Rigby and Jeffery built numerous rifles without seeing the need for an cheekpiece.

Harry Selby hunted with his .416 Rigby Bolt rifle for several decades in such form,though he did personally reshape/modify the stock more to his liking.
WDM Bells .275 Rigby and .318WR Thomas Bland, did not have a cheekpiece.

Yeah, but all modern bespoke UK bolt rifles have cheekpieces, it was a matter of fashion back then and the fashion changed. Consider that UK shotguns don't have cheekpieces while Euro doubles (intended for the Euro market) almost always have had them. Fashion.

I personally find that a rifle without a cheekpiece looks kinda plain and on the lower end of the economic spectrum, not to mention b-o-o-o-o-r-ing to a degree. Why would anyone NOT want a cheekpiece on a truly fine piece? JMOFWIW.
Regards, Joe

Current production British midframe SxS rifle as seen here, fit & feel delightfully fine without a cheekpiece.
I dont give two hoots about what the fickle fashion police might think or say, I would order that sxs 9,3x74R without C/P.



...and would match very nicely with the shotgun ordered from the same maker.



would you judge the SxS rifle to be more from the lower end of the economic spectrum,than the shotgun from the same maker,
simply because of the abscence of a cheekpiece on the rifle?
Fortunately some people have a less superficial, more wholistic understanding and approach, when it comes to appreciation of fine grade guns and rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I personally find that a rifle without a cheekpiece looks kinda plain and on the lower end of the economic spectrum, not to mention b-o-o-o-o-r-ing to a degree. Why would anyone NOT want a cheekpiece on a truly fine piece? JMOFWIW.
Regards, Joe

Personally, I like the clean looks of a rifle without a cheekpiece.

And I wouldn't consider it plain at all - especially with a nice pice of wood! A cheek piece can break up the look of fine wood...

If a rifle is stocked to fit, a cheek piece is just a bit of $$ stock carving...

I think that the above posters are correct. Cheek pieces are supposed to provide a broad surface for a good cheek weld to assist in sight alignment and recoil management.

Not at all scientific, but my sense is that, with the right contour and the right amount of cast off, they can help.

But they, and the stock itself, do have to fit you properly.

And I agree that they look good, too!

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
would you judge the SxS rifle to be more from the lower end of the economic spectrum,than the shotgun from the same maker,
simply because of the abscence of a cheekpiece on the rifle?
Yes, I personally would have that opinion.
Fortunately some people have a less superficial, more wholistic understanding and approach, when it comes to appreciation of fine grade guns and rifles.

It's my understanding that H&H for instance (just to name one) makes all, repeat all their double rifles with cheekpieces. Certainly all that I've ever owned or even seen have had them, even their very cheapest; all have had shadow lines and almost all had no Monte Carlo. However this practice may have changed in the new economic environment (grin). I can't speak for any lesser-quality non-best guns or any gun made in the last 20-30 years however.

In my mind it's like comparing a boxlock gun to a sidelock, there simply IS NO comparison in almost every case (Westley Richards droplocks excepted, of course). The sidelock and cheekpiece cost more & add fabrication time and so therefore they add perceived quality and braggin' rights. Both are generally considered to be some of the common de riguer hallmarks of best-quality guns and rifles.

It's all personal opinion though, if you don't like a cheekpiece then by all means don't HAVE one!
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
would you judge the SxS rifle to be more from the lower end of the economic spectrum,than the shotgun from the same maker,
simply because of the abscence of a cheekpiece on the rifle?
Yes, I personally would have that opinion.
Fortunately some people have a less superficial, more wholistic understanding and approach, when it comes to appreciation of fine grade guns and rifles.

It's my understanding that H&H for instance (just to name one) makes all, repeat all their double rifles with cheekpieces. Certainly all that I've ever owned or even seen have had them, even their very cheapest; all have had shadow lines and almost all had no Monte Carlo. However this practice may have changed in the new economic environment (grin). I can't speak for any lesser-quality non-best guns or any gun made in the last 20-30 years however.

In my mind it's like comparing a boxlock gun to a sidelock, there simply IS NO comparison in almost every case (Westley Richards droplocks excepted, of course). The sidelock and cheekpiece cost more & add fabrication time and so therefore they add perceived quality and braggin' rights. Both are generally considered to be some of the common de riguer hallmarks of best-quality guns and rifles.

It's all personal opinion though, if you don't like a cheekpiece then by all means don't HAVE one!
Regards, Joe

The best British makers,...will cheerfully cater to a customers request to have a rifle order stocked without a cheekpiece, though the price will not change.
Clearly they dont believe or perceive such a rifle as being of lesser grade or belonging further down the economic spectrum.
..however, your entirely entitled to holding the personal belief that it does.

Your also the guy who proclaims that todays newly manufactured custom high quality bow release-straddle floorplate M98 bottom metal units,
are some sort of... " politically correct latest fashion craze" ,
when in fact the industry trend to manufacture and install such hardware, on high grade rifles,began well prior to 1910.

so what theory will you come up with next,maybe..."The lack of an more labor intensive ebony forend tip puts a rifle in the lower end of the economic spectrum" ...?
I doubt folks who prefer their cherished custom to authenticate part of an period Rigby or H&H, would share the same view.

The build quality & perceived value of a rifle, is not necessarily determined by addition of more complex/more fancy features like cheekpiece,forend tip,1/4 rib, etc.
No doubt, the addition of such features can make some folk feel like they have greater braggin rights,.. however,
there are those who prefer more simplistic featured rifles, yet with no compromise in value, quality of workmanship or prestige. They still remain best quality.

Boxlocks,sidelock and droplock, are designs. Gunmakers can produce each of them in different grades.

The "Best" gun implies a very high level of fit and finish, best materials available at the time, and a suitable design. The Droplock, sidelock or boxlock can be made to best work standards. Not all are. So, you must judge each speciman on its own merits.

Westley Richards Droplock, is a maker's name and design. It is not a quality grade. WR made best guns (OQ1), WR made very pedestrian grades (OQ8, say), and pretty much everything in between (OQ2 - OQ7). The Brand Value of WR (BV2 = Westley Richards, Dickson, Rigby, Beesley, Grant, Powell, Atkin, Churchill, Henry, Lancaster, Evans, Watson, Wilks, Greener, Boswell, Gibbs, and Lang) gives additional information about the market price of the gun, along with Original Quality grade, and Current Condition level. BV1 is Boss, H&H, Purdey, and Woodward. BV3 is all remaining Brit gunmakers. BV4 and BV5 apply to certain Continental makers. Separate the maker's name from the original quality of the gun - neither is definitive of the other. Mechanically, a best WR is about as good as the BV1 name best guns, but they don't cost the same in the current USA used Brit gun retail market; about 2/3 as much for equal OQ and CC.


Pre-war Holland & Holland[1933] .375H&H takedown.



Rigby styled Kurz.

Yes, W-R made/makes all grades of embellishment. However you seem to think that they supply their droplock action in all their guns and that's simply not true.

You might wanta do some more homework.

The droplocks are used on only the top-grade W-R guns, their 'best' guns. The W-R droplock is the ONLY boxlock gun in the world that is considered to be a 'best' quality gun. Period.

Sure, most makers will make whatever the client wants and the UK makers are no different. I've seen H&H guns that were so embellished with multi-colored-enamel lower-class decoration that they looked like something a pimp would choose. So what? All the OTHER rifles that they make (for normal clients and off-the-rack sales) have cheekpieces.

Let's put it this way: When I see 2 similar rifles lying side-by-side on a gun show table, I'll ALWAYS look at the one with the cheekpiece first. Same with an ebony or horn forend tip, the presence of these features adds visual interest and hints at extra quality over a similar rifle without these features.

Now, the extra quality may in fact not be there, only closer examination will tell. Kinda like looking at members of the opposite sex, the visuals are the initial point of attraction and the observer's eye is pulled to the ones with the more-attractive appearance and the extra features (grin).

Playboy Bunny vs Plain-Looking Librarian if you will, strictly a personal thing. The librarian may in fact make a better partner but the bunny will always get more attention and be considered more attractive by others, a 'trophy'.

If you don't want a cheekpiece or forend tip, fine, knock yourself out. Just don't try to convince the rest of us that we're wrong.
Regards, Joe

quote:

The droplocks are used on only the top-grade W-R guns, their 'best' guns

Please show where WR indicates that the Droplock,fixedlock and sidelock rifles are of different grades.
The price variation is for the difference in manufacturing cost of the different lock systems, not for difference in quality of manufacture.
The quality of stock work and metal work would be the same regardless of whether it was an drop,fixed or side lock rifle.

WESTLEY RICHARDS RIFLE PRICING
All Prices Are Subject To UK Vat Where Applicable

Hand Detachable Lock (Droplock)Standard Rifle Up To .500 NE £43,500.00
Standard Rifle .577 & .600 NE £46,500.00
Extras
Stalking Safety £375.00
Strap Over Comb £1,200.00
Side Plates £1,550.00
Clipped Fences £650.00
Spare Hand Detachable Locks £3,250.00
Single Selective Trigger £3,850.00
1 Stand Plus 2 Leaf Express Sight £285.00
Pivot Mounts £975.00
Claw Mounts £1,500.00
Smithson Mounts £1,500.00
Exhibition Wood £2,000.00
Enamelled Oval £600.00
Leather Covered Recoil Pad £295.00
Deluxe Scroll/Game Scene/Carved Engraving POA

Fixed Lock
Standard Rifle .470 & .500 NE £29,250.00
Standard Rifle .577 NE £32,250.00
Extras
Automatic Safety £280.00
Stalking Safety £375.00
Strap Over Comb £1,200.00
Clipped Fences £650.00
WR Combination Foresight £1,250.00
1 Standing Plus 1 Leaf Express Sight £245.00
1 Standing Plus 2 Leaf Express Sight £285.00
Pivot Mounts £975.00
Claw Mounts £1,500.00
Smithson Mounts £1,500.00
Deluxe Wood £1,500.00
Exhibition Wood £2,000.00
Grip Trap Cap £350.00
Semi Beavertail Forend £750.00
Gold Oval £175.00
Initials – Up To 3 £105.00
Enamelled Oval £600.00
Sling Swivels (QD Or Fixed) £250.00
Leather Covered Recoil Pad £295.00
Name & Border Engraving £1,150.00
Full Traditional Scroll Engraving £4,500.00

Sidelock
Standard Rifle Up To .500 NE £57,500.00
Standard Rifle .577 & .600 NE £59,500.00
Extras
Stalking Safety £375.00
Clipped Fences £650.00
1 Standing Plus 2 Leaf Express Sight £285.00
Pivot Mounts £975.00
Claw Mounts £1,500.00
Smithson Mounts £1,500.00
Semi Beavertail Forend £750.00
Leather Covered Recoil Pad £295.00
Deluxe Scroll/Game Scene/Carved Engraving POA
Rifle Cases
Best Oak & Leather £3,750.00
Lightweight Leather £2,100.00
Canvas Outer Cover £695.00
Pair Cases Add 10%
Basic Tools – Snap Caps, Oil Bottle, Cleaning Rod, Jag, Mop, Brush & Cloth £467.50
Full Compliment Of Tools – Snap Caps, Oil Bottle, Cleaning Rod, Jag, Mop, £1,360.50
Brush, Cloth, Three Turnscrews, Striker Block, Striker Pot, Disc Key, Dust Brush
Note: All Tool Handles For Rifles Are In Horn

Regardless of your opinion and your individual interpretation of the W-R price list, the fact remains that their fixed-lock guns are not now and have never been in the past considered to be 'best' quality no matter how much embellishment they may have. As I said before, the ONLY boxlock guns considered to be 'best' quality are the W-R hand-detachable droplocks.

In the mind of the gun purist and arms historian, it doesn't matter if the non-detachable boxlock is made outa platinum with gold inlays & diamond accents & been anointed by the Vatican 'cause it's still a boxlock. Period, end of discussion.

I suggest that you expand your reading horizons to include things besides price lists, things like the opinions and attitudes of the classic-era widely-respected and informed gun writers & arms aficionados. You know, the folks who wrote the books (grin).

Some of the more-modern ones may use weasel words to try to be PC and not offend anyone (heaven forbid!), but the oldtimers called 'em like they saw 'em and their attitudes & opinions are quite clear to even the dullest tool. Sidelocks can be 'best' if made by certain makers to a certain standard, but boxlocks other than the W-R droplocks can NEVER be 'best', by definition. Sorry.
Regards, Joe