XX

Beautiful, very well done.

Darn, if that client had a feather in his nether regions and I had that pair of rifles, we would both be tickled!

Nice!

Super nice, as always.

Exquisitely done!

Classic!!!

its rare to see a full stocked rifle done in perfect proportions these are well done well done indeed

Bwana:

He's got the rifles, if I were you, I'd get the feather if you both want to be tickled. :=)

Very nice rifles. Still drooling.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):

Roger Kehr did the detail engraving, which I feel was in keeping with utility and good taste.

I agree. Very nice pair. Did the customer mention why he wanted a 6.5 x 55 and 7 x 57 instead of two less similar cartridges?

WOW!

Superb

Beautiful rifles - ideal for a Scottish Red Stag. Just a comment re Leupold Scopes - it seems that most American custom builders are happy to it these, whereas the general consensus in the UK is to go Zeiss or Swarovski, and Leupold's have a poor reputation - rugged, but lense and low light performance not as good. Is this true or just a myth?

Very nice work indeed!!

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Beautiful rifles - ideal for a Scottish Red Stag. Just a comment re Leupold Scopes - it seems that most American custom builders are happy to it these, whereas the general consensus in the UK is to go Zeiss or Swarovski, and Leupold's have a poor reputation - rugged, but lense and low light performance not as good. Is this true or just a myth?

In the US, Leupold scopes are generally (with some exceptions) on a lower price tier than Zeiss and Swarovski. Although Leupold scopes have always performed perfectly for me, I would agree that the Euro scopes are of better quality. Perhaps in Europe the price difference is less than in the US.

No need to ask the source for the bottom metal, but the triggers?

Exquisite rifles to be sure!

You can only answer that question for yourself.
However the Germans make the ugliest scopes on the planet. Many are so large and clunky they would ruin the lines of a trim rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Beautiful rifles - ideal for a Scottish Red Stag. Just a comment re Leupold Scopes - it seems that most American custom builders are happy to it these, whereas the general consensus in the UK is to go Zeiss or Swarovski, and Leupold's have a poor reputation - rugged, but lense and low light performance not as good. Is this true or just a myth?

Beautiful rifles. Absolutely beautiful.

On the matter of scopes I have to agree. The German optics are superb but the scopes are too big, must be mounted too high, and they are heavy. I also think they are rather ugly and overpower the lines of a well done sporter. Those two beautiful little rifles would be lost under one. Leupold scopes are also optically excellent, and are a better, trimmer fit for most sporting rifles, and they are tough. I really like and use German and Austrian binoculars, and I really appreciate how ergonomic and trim they are. Unfortunately that hasn't carried over to their rifle scopes.

My opinion for what it's worth.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Beautiful rifles - ideal for a Scottish Red Stag. Just a comment re Leupold Scopes - it seems that most American custom builders are happy to it these, whereas the general consensus in the UK is to go Zeiss or Swarovski, and Leupold's have a poor reputation - rugged, but lense and low light performance not as good. Is this true or just a myth?

I think there's some truth in what you say. Although something of a generalization, German scopes are typically designed for use in static hunting conditions, such as from a High Seat located around the fringe of a forest clearing. Typically these vantage points will be occupied in early morning darkness or in the late afternoon. Most shots will be taken in twilight conditions right on dark. So, in these circumstances, light transmission is everything and weight and bulk mere secondary considerations. On the other hand, the American style of hunting appears to be a more mobile affair where, for obvious reasons, scope weight, bulk and durability are going to be at least as important as light transmission. So long story short, it's horses for courses.

Personally, I prefer not to use a scope anymore. If I were hunting for food then that would be a different matter but I'm not. For me, it's pure recreation. In my view, almost any rifle looks better without a lumping great tube thing clamped on the top. A Peep sight isn't as good as an appropriately sized scope, that's just a fact, BUT in many circumstances it's almost as good. It's certainly lighter and more rugged and to my way of thinking it adds to the challenge.

Very nice rifles. The only thing which IMO do not belongs to mannlicher stocked rifle is the quarter rib. It would be interesting to know why the client ordered two rifles with calibers so near each others. Maybe one for wife and other for himself.....

quote:

Originally posted by lonewoof:
In my view, almost any rifle looks better without a lumping great tube thing clamped on the top. A Peep sight isn't as good as an appropriately sized scope, that's just a fact, BUT in many circumstances it's almost as good. It's certainly lighter and more rugged and to my way of thinking it adds to the challenge.

In my younger days, I certainly would have agreed with you. I killed a number of African dangerous game with a rifle equipped with a Lyman 48 receiver sight, and never felt in the least handicapped.

Even though I am forced to rely on scopes now, my preference runs to the German scopes of the '30's and their American counterparts: the Zeiss and Hensoldt Zielkleins, the Lyman Alaskan and the Noske, none of which overpower the lines of a beautiful rifle with their straight 22mm tubes.

Agree with the comments on many European Scopes being oversized and some are just positively ugly. Looking at the prices of the Leupold gold ring VX 3 they are not that much less than say a Schmidt & bender or Zeiss, so not all surprised why hunters over spend that little bit more, particularly as most only have one, two or three rifles given our firearms licensing. I like fixed 6x42 scopes on a 1" tube, and also the old Zeiss 3-9x36 if you can still find them, but he Swarovski z3 3-9x36 is also nice.

I agree with Duane.

I have a 38mm Weaver on my 8x57 Mannlicher. Love it.

Mr. Weibe,

Those rifles are superb. My highest compliments.

In particular the octagon barrels with the ribs!

The octagon starts just right past the receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
Even though I am forced to rely on scopes now, my preference runs to the German scopes of the '30's and their American counterparts: the Zeiss and Hensoldt Zielkleins, the Lyman Alaskan and the Noske, none of which overpower the lines of a beautiful rifle with their straight 22mm tubes.

Here are a couple of examples of what I was referring to:

(Newton 1922 with Lyman Alaskan)




(Newton 1916 with Zeiss Zielklein)



(Griffin & Howe Model 70 with Lyman Alaskan)



(Springfield .458 Winchester Magnum with Lyman Alaskan)

While those old scopes are small and out of the way they are even older than I am and obsolete.

Not only that but some of them have side mounts which ruin a M70 or Steyr for that matter.

Does it strike you as ironic that someone who calls himself "Savage 99" would refer to something as "old and obsolete"? I was born in 1939, so I guess that makes me old and obsolete, too.

Referring to 1930's optics in those terms makes me wonder if the writer has ever used such a scope.

Those of us who like side mounts also like receiver sights, and receiver sights are generally incompatible with top mounts. All my Griffin & Howe sporters have side mounts, and I don't consider them ruined.

I use original scopes on my rifles, and have never felt hampered. I'm good out to 300 yards any day of the week with Lyman Alaskans and Zielkleins and frankly don't care to shoot much farther than that. I do like the early steel tubed Weaver K-3's which are dead tough and look fine on a classic rifle. Iron sight shooting is an important part of riflery. And if the resale value of the rifle is hurt by a proper side mount, then what you're basically saying is, is that the gun isn't worth as much as the action, and that is definitely not the mount's fault!

Great pair of rifles. Neither is "overpowered" by its scope. I would not change a thing - except the ownership.

I figure that when they become YOUR rifles YOU can put whatever scope on them YOU want.


I too like the looks of the old steel tube Weavers but I do not miss them fogging up.
I have an old Dialyt in a side mount on a rifle but the 1.5" of eye relief and limited mounting options make it all but useless.

Well let me get Duane off the hook a bit on caliber selection. I've had Duane build several sets of rifles. Those sets were built as you would imagine; .500 Jeff/404 Jeff; 30-06/300 Win. Mag.; .300 H&H/.375 H&H; .338/416 Rigby. I wanted something that gave Duane a full stock to work with. He chose the wood and the style of checkering etc. I however wanted calibers that were traditionally mannlicher such as the 7X57 and the 6.5X55. I really gave a lot of thought to a 9.3X62 but I have a lot of medium to large bores and I wanted a couple of rifles I could shoot at deer, hogs and small game without being totally over-gunned. I love the rifles and I appreciate the kind words regarding Duane's work. Hopefully I can find time to chase an antelope this fall. MMP

Should have known it was you Mike... I have that feather if you want to trade! ~ ~ ~

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Agree with the comments on many European Scopes being oversized and some are just positively ugly. Looking at the prices of the Leupold gold ring VX 3 they are not that much less than say a Schmidt & bender or Zeiss, so not all surprised why hunters over spend that little bit more, particularly as most only have one, two or three rifles given our firearms licensing. I like fixed 6x42 scopes on a 1" tube, and also the old Zeiss 3-9x36 if you can still find them, but he Swarovski z3 3-9x36 is also nice.

Heym,

I think the 6x42 fixed scope as you mention takes a lot of beating as a woodland stalking scope. I took a Swarovski in last year and wish I had kept it for myself, but instead it sits on digs manlicher schoen..er.

I have used Leopold scopes and will not use one for uk stalking agin. This is not really down to the quality of the scopes as the reticle a are some of the best out there. They simply don't gather the light at the end of the day. I don't think there is a destination in the world I have hunted that has a high a dependence on low light hunting as we do in the uk. Boar under the moon is an easier proposition than fallow stalking can be, in terms of target visibility.

I have a varXIII here that you are welcome to try. It is a great scope and I may well use it with swing offs on my 375 for Africa where most shots are in broad daylight. It just doesn't work for me here.

Incidentally prices here are much higher than the guys pay for the same product in the states .


Re: the thread,

That is a beautiful pair of rifles which really do need to shoot a stag or a roe buck!!!

And there was I thinking I had scratched all the itches I had for new guns...

Rgds,
Kiri

Great looking rifles!

Shane Thompson

Absolutely stunning pair of rifles Duane. Just looking at them sorta takes my breath away. Fantastic.

TT

When I asked my question about why the customer wanted two similar calibers I was not being critical at all. I was just curious. The rifles would be just as wonderful if made in very different calibers or even if the two were made in the same caliber.

Thank you for satisfying my curiosity with your explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by mufasa:
Well let me get Duane off the hook a bit on caliber selection. I've had Duane build several sets of rifles. Those sets were built as you would imagine; .500 Jeff/404 Jeff; 30-06/300 Win. Mag.; .300 H&H/.375 H&H; .338/416 Rigby. I wanted something that gave Duane a full stock to work with. He chose the wood and the style of checkering etc. I however wanted calibers that were traditionally mannlicher such as the 7X57 and the 6.5X55. I really gave a lot of thought to a 9.3X62 but I have a lot of medium to large bores and I wanted a couple of rifles I could shoot at deer, hogs and small game without being totally over-gunned. I love the rifles and I appreciate the kind words regarding Duane's work. Hopefully I can find time to chase an antelope this fall. MMP

I cant see the original pictures in the first post. What happened to em' ??

I have Mike Walker's Remington 722 in 257 Roberts and he put a side mount Lyman Alaskan on it. A beautiful rifle.

Well darn.....guess I should've saved all the pictures of Duane Wiebe's work since they've all disappeared now.