First off, I'll introduce myself! My name is Jody Slone jack of all trades and master of none I guess. I've been lurking on this board for a pretty good while, I've seen alot of fine work from some really talented people! I'm just getting into the stockmaking thing trying to learn all I can. I get on here almost every night just to see what's the latest creation. It kinda gets to you after awhile.
A friend of mine wanted me to build him a stock for his tang safety with an open grip, and purdy it up a bit. I guess this would be my rendition of what he wanted. I still need to do a few touch ups, whisker it off, before I start with the oil finish. Judging from what I've seen on this board, you guys pull no punches! That's exactly why I'm posting this. I want to see what's good, bad, or ugly! Sorry about the terrible picture quality I've not mastered that damn camera of the wife's yet either. Thanks in advance!

Next pic.

Looks darn good if you ask me.

Thanks Sevens! Here's another angle.
I can't figure out how to get more than one pic to go at a time!

One more!

Love the open grip and semi-Schnable forend. Looking at your pictures make me want to pick the rifle up and fondle it.

You are going to have a nice rifle when you are done and one to be proud of - especially for your first try. I've seen examples of early stocks by Jerry Fisher and D'Arcy Echols and they didn't start out building masterpieces either.

That's one of the nicest remodel of a tang safety Ruger I've seen...Good job!

That subtle forend slope into the schnabble is just great. I'd be comfortable turning a nice piece of walnut and a barreled action over to you, based on what I see here.

Rich
DRSS

Judging from your photographs you have good artistic sense and an eye for line. The stock proportions are graceful and in good taste, and I have no doubt the rifle will balance and handle well.

You also seem to have the patience and discipline to handle small details. The bolt stop/release on Ruger 77s is rather big and obtrusive. I like the way you fitted the stock around the bolt release so it blends in to the overall appearance. I also like the way you've framed the trigger guard/floorplate area.

From the thickness of the butt pad I'm guessing this rifle is chambered for a fairly powerful cartridge. Judging from the third photo from the top I'd be a bit concerned about how the grain runs through the pistol grip area.

It looks a bit vulnerable to breakage. Not sure how you are handling bedding of the receiver and recoil lug but if it were my rifle I'd want the recoil lug reinforced with glass bedding and maybe even add a through-bolt.

Your workmanship appears to be very good, very impressive for someone just starting out in stockmaking. I hope you post more pictures as you finish and checker this stock.

Curious, was this a blank or was this the factory stock and you reshaped it?

K9 first off welcome to AR & secondly; that stock works for me Really like the forend shape.

Looks damn fine to me only way to gain experience is through pratice and stick with it but it does look swell

Thank you guys for all of those great comments, and the warm welcome! It really makes me feel good that people like what I'm doing!

Rich: Thanks for the pat on the back about the fore end! I see you on here alot, you seem to really know what your talking about. I originally intended to go alittle further with the slope, kinda like a mod 7. I got so far into it, and decided somewhere in the middle was far enough.

Dave: to answer your question. The grain flow does shift pretty hard on the left side, most of it has good flow. I'm not very expierienced at laying out a blank, and knowing what the end result will be. I hope to get better as I go. Thanks for picking up on that, I've wandered alittle myself. This rifle is chambered in 25-06 I don't think it will kick hard enough to matter. If it had been say a .375 HH or somthing bigger I would most likely have problems. I do plan on bedding it though.

Sevens: This was cut from a blank. I cut the tree myself about 4 years ago, took it to a mill, had some of it kiln dried. Long story.....

I may have been a little misleading in my original post when I siad I was just getting into stock making. It is very true that I am just getting started, but I do have some very limmited work under my belt. About two years ago me, and some others built a duplicator, I won't mention any names, if they want to be known, they can chime in. That's another long story. The duplicator turned out very well, it does a fatastic job on the outside contours of a stock, it has limits on inletting. Until now I've been turning them, and passing them on. I'm very limited as far as time go's. I work 40 + hour a week, then all the other dreaded honey do's.

Just to follow up on the above post! I started by duplicating a factory original with just pine, altered the pine stock. Built up with fiber glass and bondo as needed, got it roughly what I wanted it to be, then copied. Sounds simple, but it was'nt for me. I guess it would be a creation of my own, I just went about it in a different way. There was still alot of hand work to be done. Hats off to the guys that do this for a living! Who knows how many hours Weibe, Les Brooks, or some of the others I've seen on this board have spent to be as good as they are! I know that inexpierience has had alot to do with me scratching my head so much.

I really don't like that black pad with all the vents .

It clashes with that fine stock design.
That pad probably works well but it was the first thing that I saw.

I understand that this isn't the best time to say this but I do believe that another pad would finish that stock properly.

Glenn

quote:

Posted 08 December 2010 03:38 Hide Post
I really don't like that black pad with all the vents .

It clashes with that fine stock design.
That pad probably works well but it was the first thing that I saw.

I understand that this isn't the best time to say this but I do believe that another pad would finish that stock properly.

You do have a good point! A nice red one, or skeletal would have been nice!

Nice job! I can offer no good advice, I am not a gunsmith and certainly have never turned out a nice stock. Mine always look like a drunk beaver made them. I do however really like the tang safety Rugers and I like those shadow line cheek pieces. That is just lovely. Wish it were one of my Rugers.
Bfly

The pad stands out of a very nice stocking job.

Otherwise, as I said, you could do one for me.

Rich

I say you are off to a great start. Please bear with me, as I am typing with 2 fingers that do not work properly. Would be much easier to tell you everything in person. Would also be easier for you to understand how I am saying these things. Please believe me when I say that I am giving you constructive criticism that you asked for. The only way to get better is to make mistakes and to ask for feedback from folks who know how to do what you want to do. Find people who have made stocks that you like and talk to them. Even frequent buyers of custom rifles cannot tell you nearly as much as a stockmaker. Everything I say is to help you get better. I am assuming you were serious when you said you wanted feedback to get better and not external validation for what you have already done.

First of all, almost everyone who makes stocks left way too much wood on the first ones they made. You need to handle as many high end custom rifles and old classic rifles as possible. I know this is hard to do and takes time, but get to it. Start studying every line and dimension on the stocks. You can see a lot about the lines in books such as Wal Winfer’s British Single Shot Rifles book on Alex Henry (just the first thing that popped in my head). Look at how Henry proportioned his stocks and follow their flow lines. Look for pics that show you how slim the stocks are, even on big bores.

Get an idea of the dimensions of stocks you see in pics. Use a caliper and start measuring the pics, using known dimensions (such as barrel length) to get the proper conversion factor to figure out the stock dimensions. Look at the transitions between different areas of the stocks to get a feel for how to handle transitions not only from different shapes, but also from different dimensions. From now on, start every stock job by sketching what you are going to build and put the key dimensions you will have on the finished stock. The only way to find your style is by making stocks with bad dimensions and comparing them to the dimensions of stocks you like.

Now look your stock. Starting with dimensional things, look at how much wood you have from the comb line to the toe line behind the grip cap. Look at how thick the stock is left to right the length of the toe line. Look at how thick the stock is left to right through the action of the stock. Look at how thick the forearm is. There is a lot of wood still on the stock that needs to be on the floor.

Study lines of grp caps and grip curves (top and bottom), and then compare to this stock. Your grip curves look pretty decent the way they are. You can tweak the bottom one if you want to give it a better line to look at and better feel in the hand, but I sure would not go crazy taking more wood off the top curve. Study how grips transition into comb noses and grip cap angles and then compare to your stock. Again, I would not do a whole lot with the top curve and comb nose, but study the angle of your grip cap. Look at it in relation to your grip curves, the cheekpiece, and your heel and toe lines. I call it “pinching” a stock when you reduce the height of stock from comb line to toe line, just behind the grip cap. This is one of the dimensions I wanted you to look at on other stocks.

The flutes are pretty radical in design. Study flute shapes and look at how others shape and size them. Yours are pretty pointy, deep, and long. Nothing you can do about wood that is already gone, but some of it can be improved when you reduce the thickness of the butt.

Study cheekpiece design and dimensions. Again, you can measure a hell of a lot from pictures of good stocks. Look at the dimensions of your CP and compare it to those. Then look at shadowline dimensions and shapes. Also, from the top the angle of the CP looks sorta funky. This angle needs to be planned out ahead of time.

OK, best I can do with hands at this time. Would be easier to tell you in person. Only focused on things to work on with limited typing. More later. Keep at it!!!

Thank you Marc! That was constuctive critisim that I needed, nothing rude, or offensive about it. Exactly the kinda thing I wanted to gain from this post. One of the guys I've been turning stocks for has told me much of the same, and I'm not too proud to admit it "I'am a slow learner". One thing that is hurting me is I've never been around many high end custom guns.

so glad to hear you took it like I meant it. i always ask folks to be brutally honest with me, or else they won't help me get better. would be eaiser fo rme to tell you in person where you would know i was saying it softly and encouragingly. most folks do not ask what you did.

been in place with no net access for almost a week, but back on line now. beat from driving. will finish tonight or tomorrow.

great start and keep making chips!!!

pretty nice, have you done any others ??

Thank you Craig. One other complete stock, but not as drasticly altered from the original as this one. Mostly turning them then passing them on.

have any photos,i may be interested in a classic style if you have done one or 2

like this?

lookin pretty good now.

Hehehe, you found out that stock work ain't easy,didn't you ? I still have my first one. Looks pretty crude; but it's still my first and I am still pleased with it. You should be very pleased with yours. Honest, it looks great.Having said that, I know you're open minded and want feedback.
One fellow said he has seen the pros work and they didn't start making masterpieces. That was 458Win.Another said he likes the shaping you did around the floorplate and I agree; it's a personal, well executed cut.Stonewall didn't like the pad and neither do I. I think it's very old school and Pachmyer makes a beautiful "old English " pad that would look much better. But, you did an excellent job of fitting and grinding !
One thing no one has picked up on is the island sight. The Ruger didn't come with that ,did it? It looks excellent on your gun !I thought island sights only came with the big bores,right?
I think of all the fine comments, Marc Stokeld gave the best points to ponder. One, he said most everyone who starts stocking leaves too much wood. Yep, I did and you have. He also said(among other good points)that the flutes were "pretty radical in design".My observations are to agree with him; and if you take his advise and slim the stock down, those cuts will shorten up. Maybe a tad more roll on the nose would help? Remember, there's a lot of weight in the barreled action; no need to add more than necessary to the stock.
You are smart. You seem to take this constructive criticism well. Open minded. That's good ! But you are your own boss and make the final decisions; the more input you have, the better the decisions you make.Listen to your critics; they mean to help you.Read books ! Go to stores that have fine guns and handle them, make mental notes of what you like about them. What would make them better?
It's good to see another stocker getting into the business. I'm out but never did stocking business for a living anyways. We need more quality stockers ! Don't accept less than your best efforts. If you think "I could have done better", then do better.
Finally, pat yourself on your back. You did a fine job ! I know from your posting this that you want to "kick it up a notch". We all will love to see your finished gun, checkered and hand rubbed finish. Well, at least not poly! It WILL look great !Can't wait to see it. Charles

quote:

22WRF
one of us
Posted 09 December 2010 13:34 Hide Post
what is the pitch on that rifle?
Posts: 6296 | Registered: 11 January 2005

If your talking about the three in the chair? I could'nt tell you. The pattern stock is at a friends shop right now, and the one's I copied are long gone.

quote:

Hehehe, you found out that stock work ain't easy,didn't you ?

Very well put Charels! Thank you for the kind words too! I'm getting stockmaking classes on line! This is cool! I noticed you said that I would have a nice looking stock when it was finished, or something like that? I'm doing this one for someone else, so far I've "tinkered" I guess, call it freedom of expression maybe. The soon to be owner of this stock has handled, fondled, and salavated all over it. He is happy as a pup with two peters. I'm probably going to play it safe on this one, and not take the chance on these inexpierianced hands screwing up what I do have. You can bet before oil hits it I'll copy it, and slim it up though! Thanks again!

K-9, what I said was " it WILL look great!". We know it's a friends gun (lucky guy !)but we do want to see the finished product,ok? Nice to know you are doing an oil finish.
Charles

You could do a lot worse than to study this stock for how to handle the grip and comb nose are.

This is some of the best comb fluting I have seen on this site. It is a tough area to get to look right. Notice that the flutes do not really have a bottom side, but rather blend into the grip area. The rear of the grip where it meets the toe line is also handled very well.

John

OK, back again. Sorry for the delay – I have very limited use of my fingers and they have not been cooperating enough to type lately. Will try to peck out a few more words and hope a couple of them give you some things to think about.

One thing I would ask you to think about is how radical and avante garde you would like to be. There are some pretty radical things going on with the stock. Now if that is what you want your style to be, then fine. But if you are not looking at pushing boundries then there are a few things you might want to rethink. You have some shapes kinda sorta like the “spear points” that Owens put on many of his stocks. I am referring to transition area of the body of the stock as it flows back into the grip area. You also have a pretty big ledge around the bottom metal.

These radical details can be put on nay stock you want to put them on. Just understand that you are venturing into an area that takes the stock out of anything in the “classic” arena and moves it to the “cutting edge/experimental” area. Both are fine, just make sure you are doing what you want to do. Remember this last sentence, as it is going to be very important in a few minutes.

The forearm is interesting. It reminds me of the Remington M7. The M7 is the only exposure many/most Americans have to anything resembling a schnable forearm. Having trouble figuring out where to go with this. Guess I will say this-if you are interested in making stocks with schnable forearms then I would suggest studying old German and Austrian rifles made pre-WW II. The M7 stock is also not something that would fit into the “classic” style of rifle stock. Again, absolutely nothing wrong with it. Just understand that you are not making something that classic rifle lovers would commission to have built. Additionally, schanble stocks should be cut even more trim than other styles of classic stocks. I mean make them REALLY thin.

Where will the sling swivels be placed? If you are sticking with the M7 profile, then they can go in the forearm. Otherwise, you will need to attach the swivel stud to the barrel with either a banded or island stud. Both work well and are appropriate on classic rifles with schnable stocks. This is something else to plan before the first cut is made.

Something that goes with the previous mentioning of most beginners leaving too much wood on their gun stocks. Look at the pictures of your stock and compare it to the classic stocks that are commonly mentioned in rifles that cost 5+ figures. As you remove the extra wood, work on making the stock curved in all directions. Your stock is still pretty slab-sided. This will be easy to fix with rasps, draw knives, spokeshaves, chisels, knives, and I even use a tomahawk if the grain is right. These tools need to feel like an extension of your hand. As you think of the curve you need to put into the stock, let the tool flow and make the curve. It takes a lot of practice for this to happen naturally. Keep making chips and it will get that way for you.

The word “curve” needs to be tattooed in your foremost consciousness. Study the stocks of the highest end makers and you will see series of parabolic curves melding into each other. The straight lines are dead straight and everything is tied into each other with graceful arcs. Arcs that lead the eye in the direction the stockmaker intended. Arcs that give a sense of graceful speed. Arcs that convey an emotion the stockmaker felt deep down inside. Study nature and you will see these exact same arcs, and they will convey the exact same emotion you feel when you view a fine gun made by a true master. One thing that cannot be conveyed through a photograph is the way a stock makes the gun feel in the hand. Everything is fluid and graceful. This is why a 10# rifle can be made to handle like a gun 2.5# lighter and how a 5.5# gun can be made to where it can easily be fired off hand after the shooter makes a hard run. It is all about balance and curves that make the rifle an extension of the shooter's body. Study curves. Buy books, watch movies, listen to music, learn photography, and do anything else that helps you to better feel curves deep inside you as you work the wood.

OK, this was the segue into the earlier thought about “make sure you know what you want to do.” You need to do this on two levels. In the macro, you need to decide what type of stocks you want to build. There is no right or wrong answer here, only what is right for you. Do you want to make a lot of cheap stocks, a moderate amount of medium priced stocks, or fewer high end stocks? There really is no “all of the above.” Someone who makes mostly cheap stocks will not make good high end stocks. Someone who makes high end stocks will go broke selling them cheaply.

On a more specific level, you need to have a well thought out purpose for every move you make. I am talking about sketching and dimensioning the stock on paper before even beginning to think about making the first chip. Have a definite plan for what you are trying to achieve. Only after you have drawn and dimensioned the finished stock should you even entertain the idea of touching the wood. Then when you do start on the wood, have a specific goal for every time you touch the wood. Each stroke of the rasp, pass of sandpaper, skive with a chisel should be preplanned. You should have already studied stocks to learn the differences between good and bad stocks. Make sure every time a tool touches the wood it is bringing you closer to the emotion you are trying to convey.

I applaud your building a duplicator. It can serve you well in the future. For right now I would encourage you to leave it idle for a while. Make a few stocks from the blank. By that I mean you do all of the work yourself. Do at least a couple without even using a milling machine. Just use a drill press for action screws and a band saw for rough shaping. Do the rest of the work by hand. And by the second one made this way I encourage you to do it on an expensive piece of wood. This will force you tho think about exactly what you are doing on each and every step of the process. There is no safety net to catch you. Doing this actually teaches you about stock making better than anything else. The duplicator is a great tool for later on, but right now the fundamentals could use a little work. It is the old “crawl before you walk” thing.

After you get a stock to the point where you think it is right, install all of the metal work and put the stock in a place where you will not catch a single glance of it for a week. I mean that-put it out of sight. After that week take it out of hiding and quietly handle the rifle. Then keep it in sight for the next week. Do not do anything to it-no modifications, sanding, or finishing. This two week process will be enlightening.

First off I would like to thank you Marc, for trying to show this poor lost pup the right way! I'm green as a gord when it comes to this stockmaking that's just the plain truth.
Most of the things you mentioned where echoed by a friend of mine "He's a Trinidad Grad" the other day when he saw the stock for the first time. He wanted to know just where was I going with it? I said I don't really know, I just hope I know when I get there! I guess that's what I get for working on gunstocks late at night. He told me I had alot more wood to get rid of, as did some of the guys on this board. I have removed a fair amount of wood since I posted these pictures. I have tamed down those "spear" shaped points you mentioned a bit. I slimmed the forearm, and added more rollover to to sides of the action. I had enough wood still to form an "excussion?" for lack of a better word around the base of bolt release, and up the front end. This made it look alittle more Mauser like to me. I did do alittle work in the grip area just trying to get the top, and bottom arcs to work together. I have taken your "very good" advice and stored it in this thick skull of mine. You mentioned a milling machine! I wish I had one! I started tech school in "94", then got my first real job in "97" at Lexmark "wish I had stayed with them". I was hired into the model shop we made prototype parts for new printers, took vender jobs from anyone building anything. My first week or two there I was handed a blueprint that looked like a folded up tent. It was for a locking mechanism of some sort? I looked at that print, and thought I would'nt last through the first week! It took me maybe two weeks to finish it. It was about the size of a matchbox, and had 20 or so moving parts inside. A shaft with tumblers, spings, detent balls, and two small gears! It worked slick as a ribbon, my manager patted my back, and told me I did alot better than he thought I would. I told him that I honestly did'nt think I could have made it at all! That job still to this very day gives me confidence that I never had before. I was so clueless when I saw that print the first time, about the same way I'am on this stock! Thanks for the help!

I like what you have done with this .. you have done a very nice, clear, stock layout, and your lines appear to be straight and true.



general comment on ruger restocking .. it is supposed to be that leonard brownell designed the ruger stock .. and as such, it is a decently functional stock .. i however, despise one small feature of the ruger stock.. and that is the "shy" wood around the loading port and in general, the right hand side of the stock along the action, especially the rear bridge.

this is entirely my opinion, though whenever i point this out to another ruger owner, they generally do get the POV, though they may disagree, which is fine with all partoes.

the ruger RSM continues this "feature" and, in my opinion, greatly detracts from the overall look of the rifle.

when i do a ruger stock, my pattern has the wood up along the action and loading port

I was referred to this thread & find it very interesting.

Could you please let me know how you went about shaping the shaddow line of the cheek piece.

Here was my first attempt and I know i could do a lot better. I had to slim down the bulky semi-inleted bland by about 1.5 inches and virtually remove the old cheek piece and cut out the present one.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but recently I purchased from George Caswell a Ruger M77 in .35 Whelen with a tang safety. The stock had been redone by a fellow in Vermont. The long and short of the story is that the stock was the original Ruger stock trimmed down to British express rifle type dimensions. It is probably one of the nicest handling rifles I have ever picked up. I would love to have several stocks made to the exact same dimensions. I will try to remember to post pictures this evening.

Here is a link to some pictures:

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100195346

K-9,
I have a couple of suggestions for your shape on this one, possibly the next one.
Just a few suggestions.
Consider taking some more wood off the top of the grip between the safety and the nose of the comb.
Consider pulling the shadowline at the back of the cheekpiece in toward the cheekpiece some more. It may be necessary to rework the primary radius of the cheeckpiece as well. The flow of the shadow line is not quite there yet.
Consider taking some more wood out of the bottom of the thunb flutes, visualize the downward radius of the top of the grip under the flutes.
Consider changing the toe line so it is tangent to the rear screw, you can even go further so the toe line terminates past the tangent point of the rear screw, basically pinch the distance between the nose of the comb and the toe line just behind the grip cap.
Consider changing the angle of the girp cap so its angle terminates just ahead of the recoil pad, on top of the heel.
Think about blending out lower detail lines above the guard.
Keep in mind these are suggestions not intended to mininmalize your efforts so far.
Just a few things that think about for this one or maybe future projects.
Stock making is an art.
Enjoy.
Congratualations on your efforts so far.
Timan