Saw a rather glowing online review for the Montan Rifle Company's Summit Alaskan rifle. I seem to remember hearing some not-so-good reviews of their service on these forums. I've been searching, but haven't been able to find them again.

Does anyone have experience with this Montana Rifles, and if so good bad or indifferent?

thanks

Has a "gun writer" EVER not given a glowing report on any gun????? Read with caustion, and verify for yourself.


Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Has a "gun writer" EVER not given a glowing report on any gun????? Read with caustion, and verify for yourself.


Keith

Yes, yes there are magazines that have panned rifles and companies. A recent Handloader magazine panned the MRC rifle until the owner shimmed the forend. At that point it was shooting sub 2" 300 yard groups.

In any case, I have an MRC action in .375 H&H. It took a lot of work with Flitz to smooth the action out. At this point it's as smooth as glass and it's a very stong and robust action.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Has a "gun writer" EVER not given a glowing report on any gun????? Read with caustion, and verify for yourself.


Keith

I brought this exact point up with a well known gun writer and he responded 'Pay attention to what i don't write about as much as what I do write about" meaning it's tough because of advertiser dollars to bash a rifle so he just doesn't write about the bad ones. Who knows?

Cane Rat,

I heard that same cop-out twenty years ago. It is propaganda, and a way to get out of the discussion. I had a writer tell me that, so I asked him if it meant that anything not in that magazine was trash. "Oh no, just that we don't waste time... There are lots of good things we just don't get to. Ummm, I mean, ummm... There's not enough time to cover everything..."

Pick any magazine and read it for a year. Then take the stack and compare the pages of advertising for any company to the pages of product review, and the level of excellence of the products.

I started writing for firearms magazines in 1988, and it took me less than six months to get the buzz word dictionary read to me.

1. "Although not up to the usual high quality standards of the XYZ Rifle Company..." is one. This means the rifle would not shoot any groups under four inches at a hundred.
2. "This particular sample sent to us displayed more than acceptable hunting accuracy..." is another. This one wouldn't shoot any groups under six inches at a hundred.
3. "The readers need to understand, that in their rush to get this new model out to the magazines for review..." is another. This one reads what a piece of crap this is, hope they fix it before they ship any out.
4. One of the high points, about 1995, was the shift to 3-shot groups. The quote "for a hunting rifle, you seldom get more than a second shot, so we feel the standard for a sporter is the 3-shot group...." This translates to, "we couldn't get this POS to shoot a 5-shot group at a hundred under a foot.

With one exception, the factories may test fire a dozen rifles to find one accurate enough to send to a writer.

Last one:

5. The photo's are all of 5-shot groups, but one bullet hole is an inch or three out of the group. That one is rationalized with the statement "weather conditions were not conducive to showing the true accuracy potential if this rifle/cartridge... In real life: this POS about as bad as any I have ever been stuck behind shooting groups. Can I blame it on the wind?

I talked with an editor about an article I had sent in, with a rifle that would not group under 3" at a hundred yards. He told me to rewrite the accuracy section, and move the target frame up to 75 yds out. I did, and noted the groups were shot at that. He edited that part out.

You got drug dealers, pimps, and gun writers. Not, necessarily in that order.

take care man,

Rich

I've been asked to change a few things over the years, I always told the editor to go pound sand. Of course, a few of my submissions were 'lost' before publication, so I quit using that particular outlet. Life's too short to hafta put up with 'editors' who are so dumb that they use the SpellCheck function for their only proofread.(!)
Regards, Joe

OK, here's a factual experience no bullshit no obligation to anyone...in 2008 we ordered a SS left hand barreled action in 375 H&H, for my wife, from MRC. We put it in an Accuracy Innovations stock.

This gun will shoot 235, 270 and 300 grain bullets in 3shot groups at 100 yards all sub-MOA-PERIOD!

I'm well award of the gun writer prostitution but not all of them are like that and this is so similar to the Dakota crap that goes around here from time to time. If you don't want to spend the $$$'s on a Dakota Don't!

Most of you who piss on Dakota rifles have never shot one and some of you either accidentaly or honestly admit that! AHR does make a great gun and conversions on CZ's at a great price and it is hard to find a better person on earth than Wayne! In fact he will be doing a 458 for us this year.

But as any of you who know Wayne know he would NEVER say a bad word about someone elses product. He may decline to work on a gun or relate it may not be his first choice etc. but that's cuz he is a class guy! He deals with Facts and not in speculation.

Some of you experts need to think of just what this bullshit does to honest hadworking people. Show me a company that has not made some trash.

I took a new Heym 500-3" to Tanzania three years ago. For 6 frustrating months the only I could get the gun to shoot below 3" groups was to work up a seperate load for each barrel! When we were hunting we visited the neighboring camp of the same company and found out that one of the PH's there had saved for 6 years to buy a Heym 577 and on the 6th round-supplies by the company- the barrels seperated at the muzzle! Facts, not opinion no bullshit.

We can find ANY company that has had bad stuff go out of the doors but at least give a factual account a whold lot better than, my uncle knew a guy in Idaho back in '57 who talked to a guy at the truck stop who had a brother-in-law who said...

A commercial publication has to have advertising and advertisers tend to disappear if all your writers focus on the negatives of the products they sell.

What do folks expect writerss to do? Commit fiduciary suicide? I think the guy that said "look at what I don't write" was pretty clever. Why would any mfg. pay for advertising in a magazine that dissed it products?

If the commercial publication is good enough, it will survive without taking ads from inferior manufacturers. If the manufacturers weren't inferior, they would be thankful for the honest feedback instead of shooting the messenger.

A good example IMO is Wolfe Publications. In the old days they didn't worry about sucking up to advertisers and so their mags were worth reading. Since Dave sold and the new owner changed to a more mainstream audience, I don't even subscribe now 'cause they aren't up to par any longer. Might as well read Shooting & Blasting or Redneck Hunter or some such.

The proper protocol in most cases would be to give the manufacturer a chance to correct any problems before re-evaluation and publication. If they can't or won't, then let the chips fall where they may. If the mag is good enough then it'll do OK without such trash anyway.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
If the commercial publication is good enough, it will survive without taking ads from inferior manufacturers. If the manufacturers weren't inferior, they would be thankful for the honest feedback instead of shooting the messenger.

A good example IMO is Wolfe Publications. In the old days they didn't worry about sucking up to advertisers and so their mags were worth reading. Since Dave sold and the new owner changed to a more mainstream audience, I don't even subscribe now 'cause they aren't up to par any longer. Might as well read Shooting & Blasting or Redneck Hunter or some such.

The proper protocol in most cases would be to give the manufacturer a chance to correct any problems before re-evaluation and publication. If they can't or won't, then let the chips fall where they may. If the mag is good enough then it'll do OK without such trash anyway.
Regards, Joe

Then it would be a consulting company that publishes its results with glossy pics. I can't bemoan a priavte venture doing what it does to maximize revenue precisely because people like you have the option of quitting it if you become disappointed with it. I'm a capitalist to the core if if the new owners had a different plan, so be it.

Something that does bother me a bit is the direction that the American Rifleman has gone in that respect. Being a member information source they should be more critical as evaluators but seem to be moving toward the kiss-ass style of gun evals too. That's too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I think the guy that said "look at what I don't write" was pretty clever. Why would any mfg. pay for advertising in a magazine that dissed it products?

The writer who told me this is one of the better ones and I tend to believe him. He told me in the same conversation that he had been asked in the past to review rifles which he knew had problems and in a couple of cases what he felt to be potential safety issues and he had declined to write about them because he couldn't in good faith give them a favorable review and if he gave his true opinion if would never get published. That was the context of his "look at what I don't write about" comment. Again, this guy is a pretty straight shooter and I tend to take him at his word.

500, nobody "pissed" on your rifle. Glad it shoots well for you.

My comment was aimed at "gun writers", in general, and what they say about a product. I also said to varify for your self, how good the product is.

Keith

Since this thread WAS about MRC rifles, I'll point out a few things regarding what 500 Fan said...

He mentioned excellent performance in his MRC With Accurate Innovations stock. Be advised, Accurate Innovations (with full length aluminum chassis in awesome wood) is the OEM Stock source for only the high end guns by MRC.

One can always buy the barrelled action from Montana, and contact AI directly for the custom stock of his choice.

My experience with a dozen or so of these guns (and stocks) is that the Chassis system is key to wringing the best performance from the guns MRC is making.

Rumors I've heard is that their lower end production guns are stocked in $89 stocks point bedded in cheap walnut built by large production company American Walnut.

Just a point to ponder...

quote:

Rumors I've heard is that their lower end production guns are stocked in $89 stocks point bedded in cheap walnut built by large production company American Walnut.

Just a point to ponder...

Rumors should just be dismissed as hearsay no proof soooo unless its direct fact keep it to yourself.

I didn't know walnut could be "cheap". Is it Chinese walnut??

I knew it could be plain grained, which is less expensive and I knew simple point patterns are less expensive. But I didn't know it was cheap.

Their own site says American Walnut Company makes the lousy stocks, and personal friends have called the stocks "cheap".

Ok. I always think ot tupperware stocks like Butler Creek as cheap. Funny how definitions change with different markets.

quote:

and personal friends have called the stocks "cheap

Yet again speculation not fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Yet again speculation not fact.

We're not in court here and he identified each rumor and opinion with its appropriate caveat.

If we always waited for proven fact then a lot of folks would be losing a lot of money in the meantime. For instance nothing's ever been PROVEN against such companies as Dakota but I'm still not doing business with them, ever, period, end of discussion.
Regards, Joe

PS: please don't take this as a negative for MRC, I personally have no experience with their products except barreling one rifle that I haven't shot yet. My point was that IMO we NEED to keep each other posted on our opinions and experiences, as long as we identify them as personal and thus not proven. Regards, Joe

I've had three MRCs made up. All were worked over by a good gunsmith and were first class rifles. 2 had AI stocks, which were excellent.

My gunsmith told me the barreled actions were pretty rough. We had to send one back to MRC as it was out of specs. With about $700 in gunsmithing, they ended up nice rifles.

quote:

If the commercial publication is good enough, it will survive without taking ads from inferior manufacturers. If the manufacturers weren't inferior, they would be thankful for the honest feedback instead of shooting the messenger.

So what I've gathered so far is that of the two people who have: 1. Responded; and 2. Have owned MRC rifles...

1 was a barreled action that shot exceptionally well and the other required an additional $700 in work.

Honestly knowing very little about the semi-custom/ custom world of rifles, is it usually necessary to spend money smoothing out a rifle's inconsistancies after the delivery? Seems like your paying good money up front to have minimal issues on the back end.

I've got 3. All are LH SS & chambered for 358 Norma, 375 H+H & 458 Lott. I like all 3 of them.

All of them needed $200-$400 in smoothing out & going over to make them what they are now. Which is smooth cycling & good feeding rifles.

IMO they are a good buy, but the buyer must keep in mind, they are not buying a Satterlee, GMA or other high dollar action....they need work & are priced accordingly.

MRC has given us LH'ers an avenue to get a custom CRF, that would otherwise be hard to obtain.

According to more than one premier builder, GMA actions take a good bit of the same work. Satterlee OTOH, are smooth and feed as-delivered.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
According to more than one premier builder, GMA actions take a good bit of the same work. Satterlee OTOH, are smooth and feed as-delivered.

I've heard/read the same things, I was just using those as an example of more pricey actions.

quote:

Originally posted by USMC-1812:
So what I've gathered so far is that of the two people who have: 1. Responded; and 2. Have owned MRC rifles...

1 was a barreled action that shot exceptionally well and the other required an additional $700 in work.

.

The $700 is high because it was the total smithing work, including blueing etc. They probably shoot "ok" straight from their shop, but can be made into something very nice.

i am sold on Accurate Innovations stocks. They have less expensive products, but their higher end products are quite nice.

Good Luck!

I will also mention, of the 3 MRC's I have, the 358 Norma is sitting in a AI stock, I really like it. The fit/finish isnt the best in a couple areas (It was one of the higher priced ones), but it is one of the most comfortable fitting stocks I own.

I also have another MRC action on the bench. I am having a 404J built, but am still contemplating using it, a LH CZ or GMA for that build.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
I will also mention, of the 3 MRC's I have, the 358 Norma is sitting in a AI stock, I really like it. The fit/finish isnt the best in a couple areas (It was one of the higher priced ones), but it is one of the most comfortable fitting stocks I own.

cmfic1,

How old is your AI stock?

I'd guess its 3 yrs old or so.

They'll never get any of my money.

That's okay with the rest of us...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
I'd guess its 3 yrs old or so.

3 years ago, OK that explains it.

The company changed hands a little over a year ago.


The FORMER managment used to let some things (less than perfect finish, uneven rails, poor inletting, etc.) slip if/when they were in a hurry.

The problems were not frequent or major, but the occasional problem would crop up from time to time.


About a year and a half ago, the CURRENT owner bought the company, and changed things...


The CURRENT managment does not alow such shinanagins. No stock is shipped unless/untill it is perfect.

The riflestock company is not just a job to the current managment. The propriator is a true rifle-nut, so it's not just a job, it's a passion.

They have stocks for most every budget. From lazer checkering to some of the finiest hand checkering. From very plain (but still nice) Claro, to GREAT English and Turkish and Bastogne... Your budget is the limit!

The workmanship is great and the finish jobs are superb these days, and with their aluminum-chassie bedding system the accuracy is phenominal.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
They'll never get any of my money.

Who?

Montana Rifle Co.? or Accurate Innovations?

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
They'll never get any of my money.

Who?

Montana Rifle Co.? or Accurate Innovations?

MRC

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
They'll never get any of my money.

Who?

Montana Rifle Co.? or Accurate Innovations?

MRC

Gotcha.

Thank you for clarifying.

FWIW, I just purchased the pattern stock for the MRC PH actions from Wayne. It makes a beautiful stock. I will make it available to anyone's stock turner for a very slight rental fee until I get to recoupe some of my investment. This particular stock requires .150 trimmed from the front of the box, tapering back to the rear. This changed the forearm lines a bit. It can be built up to fit the action as-is.



If interested pls PM me.

Go Tigger!!

That is a nice stock. Mine is off that pattern.

Rich

Bought a LH CM barreled action form MRC for my son in 7X57. The first AI stock we tryed was Junk. The Finnish was turning white the cut out for the bolt was more than 1/2 inch wide. They missed the action relief holes by about half the hole and the stock didn't even reach the holes. I sent that one back along with the barreled action as they said it was MRC's fault because the didn't make the LH the same as the RH action. They did upgrade the next stock some and it turned out real well. Shoots very good. But I said I would never deal with them again [AI]. We are very happy with the MRC barreled action. Maybe we just don't know any better.

quote:

Originally posted by 257 Rock:
Bought a LH CM barreled action form MRC for my son in 7X57. The first AI stock we tryed was Junk. The Finnish was turning white the cut out for the bolt was more than 1/2 inch wide. They missed the action relief holes by about half the hole and the stock didn't even reach the holes. I sent that one back along with the barreled action as they said it was MRC's fault because the didn't make the LH the same as the RH action. They did upgrade the next stock some and it turned out real well. Shoots very good. But I said I would never deal with them again [AI]. We are very happy with the MRC barreled action. Maybe we just don't know any better.

257 Rock,

When did this happen?

I think about 7 year ago. Right after MRC started selling the actions.