I'm a long time member but don't remember ever starting a post so here goes.

I've been gunsmithing for near 50 years now. I've always tried to improve my stock finishing by trying different methods and different finish products. My gunsmithing library is extensive . Have attended a number of schools and seminars. I worked in a large gunshop with 5 gunsmiths at the time. Also had my own general gunsmithing business a few years. Most of that time I have used the wet sanding with the thinned finish for an in the wood satin finish and upon request carrying it further to a gloss finish. That worked well for many differant types and brands of finish. The finish I used the most has been 1/2 Tung oil and 1/2 Tru-oil. I've also used Flecto Varathane and other polyurethane blends with good success.

Recently I finally hit a major problem. I was finishing an expensive stock with lots of figure. Probably Bastone. I decided to try Watco brand Teak Oil for a sealer. Then finish coats of my old stand by 1/2 Tung oil and Tru-Oil. After final coats I started getting cloudy splotches in the finish. Stripped the top coat and tried straight Tru-Oil. Same problem.

Has any of you experienced anything similar ? Finally what brands and techniques do you have good results with ?

I remember that problem once when I was using tung oil and spar varnish 50/50. It's been years but I think I was rushing the job and didn't allow the previous coats to dry properly. Could have been too much humidity too but it's been 30-40 years ago. But knowing me like I do, I probably hurried the job.

you need 7-10 days for the Tung oil to dry. More if the problem area is some porous end grain.

The sealer, Watco Teak oil, was a few years old which could be the problem.

"Ship N Shore" sealer, Pro Custom Oil for finish.

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"Ship N Shore" sealer, Pro Custom Oil for finish.

Great, I have some Pro Custom Oil and was hoping I would hear from someone who uses it.

I used Daily’s for years and with good results. I’ve also tried pretty much all the major players out there, ie Linspeed, Tru-Oil, etc.
I have since gone to Timber Lux. For me, it’s the best I’ve ever used

For those that use Pro Custom Oil, what stripper will remove it?
Thank you

Waterlox following D'Arcy Echols' instructions gives great results.

Lots of good finishes out there today and it pretty much applies to the application. What works for one might fail for another..I have like GUN-SAV-R FROM BROWNELS, but many others work well, True Oil, Linspeed, work well for most folks, just follow the directions..It not rocket science as some think!! High Gloss is weather, water proof, but sucks IMO, I like an oil modified of sorts, take your pick...Some years ago i finish small turkish left over planks and they remained on the shop roof for 2 to 3 years,,Interesting results..the best was the thinnest, most difficult to apply in thatit took dozens of coats applied daily, but I got hammered because it contained Tuanal that causes Cancer. I used it for 20 years, nobody died of cancer and Im still kicking at 87 crowding 88???? Came in a black can with gold or silver lettering as I recall..may not be available today..just looked like polished wood,no gloss. I was Varathane Flecto,and i used a wipe on and hard wipe off, more coats than I recall but more than I ever use before or after..It lasted years .

In 30+ years of gunsmithing I have tried almost every imaginable stock finish. I have excellent results with Waterlox, but it quickly goes bad in the can. I have tried Daly finishes, but they do not work here in very humid Georgia. Pro Custom finish is good. Currently, I'm using TimberLuxe #2 formula. This stuff is made for humid environments and is super easy to apply. Unlike other finishes that get "sticky" when rubbed by hand, TimberLuxe can be rubbed until essentially dry without sticking. Just a couple of drops are enough to coat a rifle stock, which makes up for its high price. TimberLuxe is the easiest to apply finish I've ever used.

Cheers,

Roger

Have used Daly's products forever... in Wisconsin, California,Washington...never an issue. But what the hell..ordered this Timber stuff to try out...Gotta keep an open mind!

I'm an incurable experimenter. I wanted to use the Teak oil as a sealer as it enhances walnut with red tones.
I think where I got in trouble was the Teak oil was old. It had been through severe Texas weather and was not drying properly. Then applying top coats of finish sealed the surface before the Teak oil was completely dry in spots.
I bought a new can of Minwax Helmsman Teak Oil and am getting good results on a test piece. I removed existing finish with acetone and paper towels. Got back down to bare wood but left the pores filled. Lightly sanded with 600 grit and will go again providing the test piece comes out good.
I know Kurt Crum and David Miller was using Daly's Teak Oil too.

Yeah..something about a finish used on wooden boats, perfected in the Pacific NW that sort of inspires confidence

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Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
In 30+ years of gunsmithing I have tried almost every imaginable stock finish. I have excellent results with Waterlox, but it quickly goes bad in the can. I have tried Daly finishes, but they do not work here in very humid Georgia. Pro Custom finish is good. Currently, I'm using TimberLuxe #2 formula. This stuff is made for humid environments and is super easy to apply. Unlike other finishes that get "sticky" when rubbed by hand, TimberLuxe can be rubbed until essentially dry without sticking. Just a couple of drops are enough to coat a rifle stock, which makes up for its high price. TimberLuxe is the easiest to apply finish I've ever used.

Cheers,

Roger

How does it compare to Velvit oil? That works really well for me.

The thing I really like about TimberLuxe and what separates it from a lot of other finishes is the ease with which it is applied. Applied a drop or two at a time, it can be hand rubbed until you're tired of rubbing and it won't get sticky or tacky. A very forgiving product. The more coats you apply the shinier the finish and the less amount of finish is used. It takes an extremely little amount of finish to apply 1 coat to a stock & the little (also expensive) bottle of finish lasts for several stocks.

I have used Velvet Oil, Waterlox, Pro-Custom and many, many more. TimberLuxe is the easiest to use and achieve a nice finish. The #2 formula also dries quickly here in humid Georgia and I apply 1 coat per day.

Cheers,

Roger

Listen to Roger. If the stuff is not magic, it’s close. I, also, like the ability to just apply a drop or two at a time.

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TimberLuxe is the easiest to use and achieve a nice finish

I will give it a try on the next stock.

I've got my finishing back on track for this stock. I removed the problem finish on the surface leaving most of the pores still filled. Wet sanding with 600 grit paper and new can of Helmsman Teak Oil. I'm getting the desired color and seems to be drying clear amber with out any streaks or splotches.

If you were getting streaks and splotches, you may not have been sanding enough; you need to sand to the wood.

I recently used Minwax antique oil, following the instructions set out below that I found from a previous thread. It was really easy to work with, and I think the finished product turned out pretty well. I will note that I used 600 grit in between coats instead of steel wool. And I also probably applied 10 coats to get the pores completely filled.




“Minwax Antique Oil Finish:
First, do as the directions on the can specify, by applying a thin coat, allow to stand 5 to 10 minutes until it starts to get sticky, then buff off with a clean, lint-free cloth.
An old linen sheet works great. Let dry 24 hours, then apply again. Put on 3 coats.
After three coats as a sealer, apply a thin coat and allow to dry BONE DRY on the surface. This may take 24 hours or more.
Using finer steel wool, steel wool the finish off the wood. As you steel wool, the surface coat will turn "muddy" looking so you can see it.
Be careful around proof stamps and sharp edges to not round edges off or thin stamps.

After steel wooling the stock down to bare wood, clean the stock with brushes or compressed air, then apply another coat, allow to dry and steel wool off.
Continue this until the grain of the wood is 100% FULL, and you can see NO open grain.
When held up to a light and sighted along the grain, open grain will look like tiny scratches in the surface.

Usually 4 coats will fill all but the most open grain.
After the last coat is steel wooled off, THOROUGHLY clean the wood.
Then, apply a thin coat and allow to stand for several minutes until it starts to get sticky.
Using several clean cloth pads thoroughly buff the surface until all traces of finish are off.
This is a "color coat" that will give the bare wood more of a color without any build up on the surface.
After buffing, allow the wood to age out and fully harden for 3 to 4 days.

After aging, buy some new burlap at a fabric store, and make a small pad from several layers.
Briskly buff the wood to burnish the surface and bring out the egg shell luster.

The advantages of the Minwax Oil finish are:
It's HARD and incredibully tough.
It's water and solvent proof.
It can be repaired or overhauled by adding more oil and buffing.
Scratches can be filled by coating and steel wooling again.
It's a REAL oil finish that looks like those seen on British double guns and American custom rifles.
It's a life time finish that never has to be done over ever again.
All the finish is IN the wood, not ON it so it looks like an original.”

A STATEMENT FOR USING A PRODUCT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH AND GIVES THE RESULTS YOU ARE HAPPY WITH . SOLVENT AND WATER PROOF?

AHHH.....SEEN EPOXY FINISH ON WEATHERBY'S THAT SIMPLY EXPLODED TO LET OUT MOISTURE...MY FEELING IS THAT WOOD JUST HAS TO "BREATHE"..AIN'T NOTHING GONNA STOP THAT .


YEARS AGO (AND STILL AVAILABLE) IS A TREATMENT THAT I TRIED LONG SINCE FORGOT THE NAME OF THE PROCESS......

UNDER SEVERAL ATMOSPHERES OF NEGATIVE PRESSURE THE PORES WERE FILLED WITH ACRYLIC. ADDED ABOUT 40% TO WEIGHT! THIS WAS CLOSE TO MAKING WOOD INTO PLASTIC...GUESS WHAT ? ''

IMMMERSED IN WATER FOR 15 MINUTES...STILLL GAINED CONSIDERABLE WEIGHT!! . FRANKLY..ABOUT THE SAME WEIGHT GAIN AS CURED RAW LINSEED OIL!

Received the Timberluxe and got a call from owner...niece guy...very enthusiastic about his product.

There's always some trade off...Looked up msds...finish contains benzene and cobalt. Been a little gun shy about the "enes" since Jerry Fisher landed in hospital twice using Plastic Oil by Verathane...remember that?

Anyway...still gonna try it out..just will make sure to wash hands VERY thoroughly after use.
Younger guys may want to research this a bit deeper.


The TimerLuxe stain contains toluene...again, be informed.

Iused flecto Varathane for years and at some point, Mr. James Anderson rightfully advised me of Toluene and I used gloves after that for a long time, then gave it up, never had a reaction from it and Im just this side of 88, but don't recommend it..I brushed it on Lighty and rubbed all the finish I could off with a clean t shirt material or whatever worked, let it dry for 48 hours and repeated that maybe a 100 or more times. It was an awesome finish I used it on a walnut table top and it sat in an open stall outside fo 40 years and remained firm..but lots of stuff out there today that's safe I suppose and certainly works well enough..As a matter of fact this finish talk is mostly interesting conversation, nothing more, nothing less!

It would not be cost effedtive, but I was a hobbyist makeing my own stock mostly..

Like others have already mentioned, I think the biggest lesson I've learned just over the last couple years is no matter what finish you use, check the date code on your product & buy fresh. After using TruOil for decades witout issue, I just threw a whole bottle of TruOil in the trash that I bought on flebay a week earlier that would not dry to the touch in 5 hours, not normal. I've also had old Custom Oil that remained sticky after 3 days.

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Iused flecto Varathane for years

Ray I also used Flecto Varathane several years. I wet sanded with diluted finish. When pores were filled I used the wipe on wipe off technique with very good results. I read somewhere that Jerry Fisher used it and became seriously ill as a result.

Did Flecto buy McCloskey. I think the Smith that did my Argy used it.

Update on my stock finishing problem. I have done various forms of gunwork for over 45 years. I have always had good results finishing gunstocks and have tried many different techniques through the years. My best results were from wet sanding with the thinned finish to fill the pores then finishing with the wipe on wipe off technique. Never had any major problems until now. This was only the second time I had used Teak Oil. Naturally the finish was suspect. I switched to my go to finish of a mix of Tru-Oil and Tung Oil. Same problems. I also tried Pro Custom Oil. Same problems. I was then thinking something was not right about the wood, Highly figured Bastone. It was well seasoned and dry but I did not know it's origin. When the stock finish would dry it would have a cloudy almost murky look. Sometimes it would get weird squigly lines in it. As the finish would build up it would get an organge peel effect. I was wondering if there was some strange chemical in the wood, with fumes bleeding up through the finish.

I have always used 3M automotive sanding paper however recently I stumbled across another brand paper, 'Hercules' available in grits all the way up to 1000 grit. It is a ceramic abrasive. It seemed to
sand smoothly, last longer and resisted clogging. A few days ago I was getting ready to refinish the stock again and picked up the package of this same paper and happened to look at the description on the front. It said 'anti clog coating'. That's it !!!!! There is some kind of evil chemical in it that the stock finish dissolves and contaminates the finish. I changed back to my 3-M automotive paper and my finish is performing as usual.

So beware of 'Hercules' sanding paper. It comes in a blue package. It is made in China.

It is possible (probable) that the abrasive paper you used and had trouble with has been treated with calcium stearate. It is the common addition to "anti-clog" properties of abrasive papers designed as such, and it also acts as a lubricant. Stearated alox papers are certainly common enough. They are not used in the automotive industries but are more common in woodworking. Stearated silicon carbide papers are also produced.

I had similar problems with finish after using a Chicom stearated paper, but didn't realise it. Frustrating to say the least as the finish was well proven to me. I switched brands of alox to a good automotive abrasive with no calcium stearate - no more problems.

Modern, high-quality stearated papers are generally okay, depending on the finish being used. Deer was a brand I used a lot, and liked, and never had a problem. Here in Oz I noticed that many retailers replaced quality brands with lower quality papers and it was one of these that gave me hell.

If you use stearated papers, it's a wise idea to rub the job down with a good thinner before applying finish. Nowadays, I just refuse to use them. Cost me untold time and trouble until I found out why.

Not an uncommon chemical in our lives BTW.

On a separate note, one of our local gun rags published an article on stock finishes years ago, where the exspurt author promoted the use of silicone oil. That stuff is pure evil. It's not uncommon in polishes and some gun care products. That one article has caused me a lot of grief when refinishing fine old stocks that had been lovingly rubbed with silicone based products. It's much more difficult to remove silocone from wood (or metal) than calcium stearate.

Another thorn in the stock finishers side is PEG (polyethylene glycol). It's an old, quick and dirty trick to stabilise green wet stock blanks. It also reduces degrade.

Not all finishes agree with PEG. For some decades, PEG treated blanks were not uncommon. Most of the modern stock finishes cope with it fine, which I think is why it's rarely cursed. It is not compatible with some finishes.

I've used Daly's poducts for decades now. Ship n Shore Sealer and Sea Fin Teak Oil. Best bet is to break down larger containers into half pint cans so you'll always have a fresh product.

Don't' use glass containers, some sort of reaction that actually thickens the product, rendering it quie useless.

By the Way, try Benite by Daly's...penetrates like crazy and is a wood hardener that actually does what it advertises

Harbor freight RO discs are Hercules . I bought some recently

quote:

Originally posted by Craftsman:

It said 'anti clog coating'. That's it !!!!! There is some kind of evil chemical in it that the stock finish dissolves and contaminates the finish. I changed back to my 3-M automotive paper and my finish is performing as usual.

So beware of 'Hercules' sanding paper. It comes in a blue package. It is made in China.

quote:

By the Way, try Benite by Daly's...penetrates like crazy and is a wood hardener that actually does what it advertises

Duane, I've been intending to try Daly's Benite and Daly's Teak Oil for some time now. I haven't found a source here in Texas. Guess I will have to order it and pay shipping.

[T WAS FORMULATED HEERE IN THE PACIFIC NW FOR USE ON WOODEN BOAT RAILS, DECKS, ETC. NEVER WAS WIDELY AVAILABLE EVEN I ORDER ONLINE ( COST OF FUEL TO DRIVE MIFHT JUST MAKE UP FOR SHIPPONG CHARFGES..HAR)

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
[T WAS FORMULATED HEERE IN THE PACIFIC NW FOR USE ON WOODEN BOAT RAILS, DECKS, ETC. NEVER WAS WIDELY AVAILABLE EVEN I ORDER ONLINE ( COST OF FUEL TO DRIVE MIFHT JUST MAKE UP FOR SHIPPONG CHARFGES..HAR)

Duane,

Try McLendons hardware. I’ve bought the teak oil there before.

Hey..thanks...just dowsn the road!

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Best bet is to break down larger containers into half pint cans so you'll always have a fresh product.

Don't mean to deviate from the intent of the topic but have found these StopLossBags very helpful to extend the useful shelf life of finishes https://www.stoplossbags.com/

Velvit oil is idiot proof IME (In My Experience - since I am an idiot!)

I get 100% pore fill with in the wood finish. Pics I have don't do justice.

Here's what I do (after sealing with greatly diluted spar urethane):
1) Wet sand 400 grit; leave build-up on stock, don't wipe off. Can't let it be too thick
2) Ditto with 600 grit (sometimes I do this step twice)
3) Wet sand with 800 grit; depends on the wood what happens next, but usually I wet sand once, leave a little on, and then do one more wet sanding and remove it all. Sometimes I have to go to a 1000 grit for the final removal
4) Hand rub with a minute amount of oil

Wait at least a week between each wet sanding.

Has anyone tried Dayls Benmatte? Seems to be well liked on the shotgun world forums

https://www.dalyswoodfinishes....t_info&products_id=3

I use Benmatte for my rubbed in top coat. I seal with Daly's Profin, fill the grain with a paste of rottenstone and Profin, then dye to taste, and finally hand rub the Benmatte. Usually three to four top coats and maybe cut back with pumice if I want to tone down the sheen. SDH turned me on to this.

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Benmatte

oil varnish

https://youtu.be/zxKn-4zPB5E