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I saw a thread somewhere in which a person had welded up the thumb notch on an Argentine 1909. I have also seen several actions in which a thumb notch has been added to a rifle (Like a Mark-X or Granite Mountain Arms). This has got me thinking, what are the various pros and cons you guys see with having a thumb notch on a Mauser 98? The majority of the time, it seems like a rifle builder uses the action as is. I am curious if you were building a custom rifle on a M98 action, would you guys opt for the thumb notch or not (and why)? ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | ||
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I have been asked to cut a thumb cut into a commercial FN action before. The FN stock had a notch for the thumb cut but the receiver didn't. Owner wanted the receiver to match the stock. Looked good when done. It took you a while to realize something was missing though; the stripper clip hump. Not sure why someone would want to eliminate the thumbcut from a 1909 action? That's one of the main features I miss when using a commercial action.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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The purpose of the thumb notch was to aid in loading a combat rifle with stripper clips. For a sporting rifle the thumb notch is not needed. If I was making a sporting rifle with a military action I would not weld up the thumb notch. If I was making a sporting rifle with an action without a thumb notch I would not cut one into the action... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I find that I hold the rifle with my left hand where my thumb is almost in line with the notch and put a cartridge on the follower with my right hand and thumb it down with my left thumb while my right hand reaches for another cartridge. very convenient way of loading and reloading for me. | |||
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+1 I find that the thumb notch aids in reloading blind which is a great addition on a DGR. I know one PH actually cut a thumb notch into his M70 for this reason. I did have the thumb notch added to the commercial action on my 458. I can't see having one welded up on a military action except to be "different"(and to show off the builder's skill-that 09 still had the original lettering on the left wall, right?) Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I added one to my .458 MK X for the same reason. It makes it just that much faster to reload.  Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I understand the thumb notch also serves to break the direct route for gas coming back along the left side of the action in the event of a case blow out. This does have some merit as if the left side of the action is solid, gas could track right back to the bolt shroud, which is shrouded to protect against gas blow back. I would prefer to have any errant gas leaving the chamber to be diverted as far away from my eye as possible e.g. out through the thumb notch! I too find the notch helps a lot when charging the magazine especially with large cartridges such as the 404J. | |||
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Ditto. [QOUTE]I understand the thumb notch also serves to break the direct route for gas coming back along the left side of the action in the event of a case blow out. This does have some merit as if the left side of the action is solid, gas could track right back to the bolt shroud, which is shrouded to protect against gas blow back. I would prefer to have any errant gas leaving the chamber to be diverted as far away from my eye as possible e.g. out through the thumb notch! I too find the notch helps a lot when charging the magazine especially with large cartridges such as the 404J.[/QUOTE] And Ditto again.   Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I spent the majority of my 50 years as a high power competitive shooter using Springfield 1903 and pre-64 Model 70 Winchester target rifles, neither of which has a thumb slot, and both of which are reloaded with stripper clips. Both have a vestigial thumb slot, which is all that is needed. My chief objection to the thumb slot is that it greatly reduces the stiffness of the action and stiffness is one of the prerequisites for accuracy. A good deal of my dangerous game hunting was with a rifle based on a P-14 Enfield action, again without a thumb slot, and I never had any difficulty in reloading the magazine which a thumb slot would have resolved. | |||
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The notch is useful when loading a stripper clip of ammo in a military rifle, which is why it's there. With a custom rifle using a scope it serves no useful purpose. "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". | |||
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Hmm, the majority of my big game hunting has been using Mauser rifles. The noodle like actions never once caused me to miss or lose an animal. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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For whatever it's worth, I have had two East African PH's request I mill out a thumb slot in commercial Mauser's to aid in faster loading. Sure..."stiffness" MUST be a factor..just logical. But logic aside too many 98's with thumb cut are capable of 1/2 MOA. | |||
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My custom Precthel Mauser in .416Rigby have a thumb notch cut, because it does add a capabillity to load up 4 rounds so much faster.  My Ritterbusch in .378wea here has a solid wall, because I don´t consider this gun a dangerous game caliber, but more of a longrange big game rifle.  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Yes the gas is diverted right at your left eye. Shoulder your rifle take aim and then open your left eye. You will see that any gas blowing out of the notch has a straight shot at your left eye. I like the notch for easy loading with heavy gloves with an iron sight rifle. Claiming it is a safety feature was desceptive by Mauser. | |||
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I take it many of the bubbas here have never reloaded a M98 in very cold weather with heavy gloves. If you don't believe me you can run this test and get back to me. Disassemble the bolt to a NON scoped M98 Mauser. Remove the firing pin so you do not do something really dumb. Put on your heaviest winter gloves that you might use for hunting. Stand beside a soft clean surface so you can eject loaded rounds with out damage. Take a box of ammo. Load your rifle with the gloves and rack the ammo through the rifle as fast as you can. Reload etc until you have cycled a box of ammo through it. Now using the gloves again repeat this little exercise with any other bolt gun and see how you fare. For more realistic results take your rifle to the range and burn through a box of ammo. You say you never miss and never need to load that much ammo that fast. Good - you should not need but one round per hunt. But again it was not a hunt it was a demonstration. | |||
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And Phil Shoemaker agrees with them that it does make for faster loading. I agree with those of you who say the thumb slot is "not needed", but to say that it doesn't aid in "no look reloading" is silly. We put a lot of things on our hunting rifles that are "not needed"; back-up sights, floorplates that open, extended magazines, etc., but the bottom line is that they do provide a benefit. And each of them has drawbacks, just like the thumbslot. Weather they end up on YOUR custom rifle depends on YOUR own interpretation of their benefits versus their drawbacks. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Exactly; leave them alone; if your action has one, good; if it doesn't; also good. Mausers aren't known for action stiffness anyway. As for gas relief; that is why there is a flange on the bolt shroud; to prevent gas from getting to you eye. | |||
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Based on the Poll so far, seems like the notch is preferred. Makes you wonder why one of the current rifle/action makers doesn't offer a standard model with thumb cut notch. For the record, I like the notch. Mostly as I think it looks classy, which probably stems from many classic rifles (Rigbys, Holland & Hollands, Westley Richards, etc.) being built on military 98 actions. As an added benefit, I like being able to use my thumb to push the rounds down to close the bolt over the top of the first round.
Any picture of such? Seen a notch in a 1917 enfield, but never a M70 or something without a giant bolt release on the left hand side. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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The Brno 21's and 22's don't have a thumb notch nor do the M70's. I don't want one on a hunting rifle but most of all I don't care if one has one or not! Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says. When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like! Do that with your optics. | |||
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I have never seen a photo of the rifle, but Finn Aagaard mentioned it in a article about Mausers and mentioned the PH and (IIRC) the cartridge the rifle was chambered for. Aagaard said that he would not have done the modification on a M70 as the lack of a guide-rib would make the action more likely to jam due to the left lug hitting the top railway. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Obviously the thumb notch was put there by someone for a reason.I wonder if those who have done alot of shooting and loading with a Mauser with loose cartridges,ever found it practicle. | |||
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Both M1903 Springfields and M1917 Enfields have a cutout at the top of the left receiver wall to facilitate clip loading. It does not extend down the receiver wall, but only to the part of the wall which arches out over the bolt. The same is true of both pre- and post-64 Model 70's with clip guides. This is not true of Model 70's without clip guides, since the need for them did not exist, at least in the view of the designers. All pre-World War II Model 70's, incidentally, were equipped with clip guides, including those chambered for the .22 Hornet. | |||
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FWIW, the last, rarest, most advanced and valuable pre-war Oberndorf Mauser sporters had solid side walls. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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I'll vote for the thumb notch on a Mauser and have seen more than a few Mauser sporters that shot 1/2 MOA. ...As a stockmaker the notch also allows me to form a neat little architectural feature known as a double ejection-port cut on the left side of the stock that interrupts an otherwise boring straight line in that area. ...Dave | |||
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Shane Thompson put one on a Mini Mauser project a few years back. Even with a scope I've noticed this one is easier to load than my other mini without it. I like it and would consider doing it again. Before  After  Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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On my first African hunt in 1971, I carried a rifle built around a wildcat cartridge of my own design. It was based on a .460 Weatherby case, shortened to 2.500" and opened to accomodate a .505" bullet. Loaded with 90 grains of IMR 4064, it achieved 2150 fps with a 570 grain bullet, the same performance as the .500 NE. My first opportunity to use it on elephant occurred several days into the hunt. We drove out to a sisal plantation located on the edge of the Amboseli Game Reserve, where elephants had been coming out of the reservation at night and raiding the sisal plants. When we arrived, shortly after dawn, several elephants were lingering among the plants. We successfully stalked a large bull with impressive ivory and got within 35 yards undetected. Using the .505, I attempted a brain shot from the right side. The bull went down at the shot, but then struggled to get up, so I emptied my rifle into him and his struggles ceased. After the excitement had subsided somewhat, it occurred to me that I should not be standing there with an empty rifle, so I opened the bolt to reload. To my amazement, both the magazine and chamber were already loaded. I looked on the ground, and there were the empty cartridge cases from my rifle. I realized that I had instinctively reloaded without even being aware of it. The hours I had spent practicing with the rifle, using reduced loads and cast bullets had paid dividends. The rifle itself was based on a P-14 Enfield action, modified to hold “two down and one up” (two in the magazine and one in the chamber). The magazine capacity was later increased to three. I used the rifle on three African hunts and killed three elephants, five Cape buffalo and a black rhino with it, with never a bobble. For me, practice and total familiarity with the rifle were what counted in tight situations. It is one of the prizes in my gun case, although it occupies space next to far more expensive and finely crafted masterpieces.  | |||
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IMHO a classic Mauser should have a thumb notch - just looks better. It should also be left handed, but I can't have everything. BTW on the Holts Auction website is the following warning IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR U.S. BIDDERS. Please note that under current rulings enforced by BATF any Mauser 98 actioned sporting rifle REGARDLESS OF ORIGINAL APPLICATION that has a thumb recess in the sidewall and loading-clip cut-out in the rear bridge will be refused an import permit into the United States. | |||
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I agree that for most folks the thumb notch is about as useful as square bridges. Although they are popular simply for the "look" but they were added for a purpose and simply because you have never used them for that purpose does not mean they are not needed or appreciated by those who do. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Well that sucks. You can get a Russian AK-47 imported with a few small parts changed but you can't get a fine hunting rifle. Bureaucracy at it's finest! -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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I like the notch though I probably wouldn't go so far as to have one added. I find it helpful loading a scoped rifle with low mounts NRA Benefactor TSRA Life DRSS Brno ZP-149 45-120 NE | |||
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+1, I like the look and I think it improves easy of loading with or without a scope. Mike | |||
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I thought everyone knew the Mauser was made for lefties like me  | |||
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We all know the thumb cut out was for stripper clips on a Mauser, however, it still greatly aids loading singly as well. The slight 'faux' cut back in the left receiver that a Winchester model 70 has, or the Springfield 1903 is also good enough. The worst is trying to 'roll' the cartridges down the smooth left receiver wall into the top of the mag, under the scope in low mounts, on a rifle that has no thumb cut out (or the small cut back) such as a Sako for example, when your trying to reload in a hurry. Mr Mauser had it right the first time. Its not aesthetics, it is functional. But the smaller cuts the Winchester and Springfield's have for example work too. For what its worth I recall a passage where Mr Walter Bell lamented the lack of a thumb cut out on modern actions, since he found it off great value in reloading quickly, because with the left hand holding the rifle, he would pull rounds from his cartridge belt with his right hand, place them into the action and then press them down with his left thumb through the thumb cut out. Now, I don't reload like that, and I don't often shoot a rifle empty any more when hunting, but a thumb cut out is not an obsolete thing at all. If I was paying money for a custom rifle I would have one added. I have a Husqvarna 640 made on an FN commercial Mauser, and I wish it had one, that and the Sako are slightly disadvantaged for a quick reload against the Winchester and SPringfield I also own with even the slight 'faux' cut outs. | |||
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So let me get this right, with the thumb notch you can get off as many or even more accurately placed rounds than with a double in the same amount of time ? or is it the other way around. I'm confused again. | |||
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Har! Just wait, I'm sure it'll get better.-------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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+1 Poor design consequence. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Somewhere I remember a picture of an old Model 70 target rifle by Roy Dunlap where he had proudly added an M98 type flange to the bolt shroud. Probably just soldiered on. Anyone remeber the article and or picture? Come on you other old guys. I'd love to look at it again. | |||
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