Other postings have talked around this issue but didn't quite address it, so here is the issue: A person can contact one of the highly skilled rifle builders and have a rifle built. There are two criteria. the first is intended use and physical attributes of the shooter. this is the Custom part. The results of this information would determine the make, type and model of action, the barrel chambering and dimensions, and the type and measurements of the stock. Generally speaking, the more specialized the result, the better it performs a specific and intended task, but the less adaptable it is to other types of shooting. As a simile, it is like a car designed to compete in the Indy 500. It will need to be very specialized to be competitive, but it will be virtually useless for any other task. As such, the specialized rifle has a very specialized market. Only those interested in using its specific features will be interested in using/paying for it.
The second category is not custom in the sense of being designed to a specific task, but rather that it performs the tasks of general hunting very well. The tasks of such rifles are generally fitted into just a few categories: Dangerous; Plains, Mountain, Brush & Varmint hunting. These rifles may appear to be very much like a factory rifle that sells for 1/10th the price (excepting the wood & checkering). the difference is in the skill and effort devoted to the rifle by the builder. Precision and attention to detail available to a product that is being made one at a time. the results of a handmade rifle may not look to be different from a factory rifle to the casual observer. the results will be apparent to anyone that closely examines the fit and finish of the rifle, or observes it being functioned and fired, particularly during those stressful moments. It seems these are the rifles that I see quite often referred to as custom, but I consider them to be handmade, and to me that is higher praise that custom.

I see it just slightly differently. Custom is any rifle, including any action, that is assembled or modified to suit any individual's taste or desires. It may be for a specific purpose, or general category of hunting.

A handmade rifle, to me, means that the action is also made by the gunsmith, such as Satterly does, or even perhaps MRC. I don't see handmade including a Mauser or Winchester regardless of how much they are tuned/tweaked/modified.

That would bump most high end rifle builders out of contention.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I see it just slightly differently. Custom is any rifle, including any action, that is assembled or modified to suit any individual's taste or desires. It may be for a specific purpose, or general category of hunting.

A handmade rifle, to me, means that the action is also made by the gunsmith, such as Satterly does, or even perhaps MRC. I don't see handmade including a Mauser or Winchester regardless of how much they are tuned/tweaked/modified.

Ah Phooey..now I gotta buy a bunch of rubber tree plants to make my own recoil pads!

Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle!

My response was in no way meant to belittle or demean anyone's work, as I believe the gunmakers here are some of the world best. It is just a simple definition difference. A gildan shirt that has all sorts of embroidery on it is not handmade. One has to go to a taylor for a handmade shirt. I have fishing rods where the maker laid up the fiberglass specifically to my specs, handmade. No matter what I do to my Ugly Stick, it could be custom, but not handmade. That's all. Just definition difference. I would say the stocks are handmade.

Even the Gunsmith Guild is Custom, not handmade.

But...did he make the fiberglass?...did he make the ferrules?

Now you are just being silly. It is just a definition difference. I said nothing about the raw materials.

Like I said, the stock would be handmade. There is nothing handmade about re-working a Maurer. Complete customization, sure, just not handmade. Again, just MY opinion. Others may feel differently. No sweat here. What is your definition, or are you just trolling other people's opinions?

Some may handmade the seat covers and add custom wheels and add headers. That does not mean they handmade the car.

what a completely worthless discussion.
save the server space and end it

Sheer nonsense.

A couple of years ago I Made two Pre 64 Model 70s. Went & bought a pc. of 4140 & started. cutting. I never made a drawing. Just took a Model 70 apart & made all the parts like that. Took them to a heat treat outfit so they didn't blow up. They came out real nice but are just a model 70. What would you call them? Hand made or custom.

Both can mean many things.What is important to me is that the gunsmith/rifle-maker have a lot of experience in shooting as well as in metal/machining and gun smithing.There are a lot of details- many not apparent, that go into building an excellent rifle.One such detail as I mentioned in another thread is a knowledge of open sight installation/regulation.Others are knowing which barrels shoot better and last longer and stock fit/sight pointability.
Then there is the question of cutting corners.How much of this knowledge/effort will be applied to your project? Where you waiting 5 yrs for your rifle to be finished but it took just 5 days to complete?
To some people a trigger is just a trigger to others it may be much more complicated than that.

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Hand made

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Both can mean many things

Kind of like motor vehicles when does a F150 cease to be a F150.

You can lift, rebuild the motor, replace the motor, repaint, add new rims, add performance parts.

When you are done it is still a F150 a highly customized one but it still is a F150.

Yep...it is a stupid discussion. I personally just can't stand seeing foolishness in the written form. For whatever reason, the written form seems to gain a certain amount of credibility

Lock, stock, and barrel...even Satterlee doesn't make his own barrels... there's very few 'handmade' completely. An uncle of mine did a couple muzzleloaders Lock, Stock, and Barrel. Made every single part, spring, screw, and cast his own or fabricated the buttplates and fittings and rifles his own barrels from scrap steel stock that was suitable. I agree, it's a silly attempt at distinction between two forms of excellent work. The 'fully hand made' are typically something one does for themselves to say they did it from what I've seen. The work that goes into higher end custom rifles transforms base components into rifles that the parts hardly are recognizable from where they started...hand made...hell yes it was.

OH MY!! See what happens when written word only is the means of communication - a word means one thing to a person here and something entirely different to a person there.

So instead of addressing the question posed at the outset, the topic deviates into a completely disassociated area. I guess I should have used "hand assembled" or "hand fitted" instead of handmade. I apologize for the oversight.