I've always had a bit of a passion for restoring old tools and whatnot. Having said that, I am universally reluctant to "restore" vintage rifles as they tend to have earned their keep and the marks are part of the rifle's character.

However...I have a chance to buy a vintage English medium caliber sporting rifle for about 3K or so. Nothing fancy, 98 Mauser in 7mm, iron sights, plain wood stock with a crazy amount of drop. It's got some serious miles and someone already refinished it, removing whatever was left of the color case from the action and buffing out about 50% of the maker's info from the barrel.

Bottom line...it needs a rebuild to get it back into shape. Likely a new barrel and a new stock. This would be sent back to the UK for the work, to the original manufacturer.

Or...I could buy a new one and leave the old one to another owner. As it stands, the rifle isn't all that useful.

Thoughts on restoring an older rifle vs just buying a new one?

Any pitfalls or things to watch out for?

Get an estimate of time and money on the work from the original maker. Then figure out the costs to ship and reimport it.

Given a $3k purchase price, you could probably buy a similar rifle that doesn't need so much work for less money. Maybe a LOT less money.


Okie John

What is the general cost to export/import a rifle to the UK?

quote:

Nothing fancy, 98 Mauser in 7mm, iron sights, plain wood stock with a crazy amount of drop.

Sounds like a lot of money for a worn out rifle.

You well not recoup your cost for sure.

I would buy modern action or rifle put some money into and have something better by far.

A vintage Holland and Holland...refurbished by Holland and Holland...is still an H&H.

No mention in your first post about who made it.

Lockingblock, have you been in contact with H&H on the cost to do this work? The 2017 price for a new magazine rifle in 7mm is GBP 30'500. I don't know what they would charge for new barrel, new stock and refinish work, but to give you some idea, the additional cost for H&H style quick detachable scope mounts is GBP 6'000.

Hope this information is of some use.

cheers
stu

H&H will charge BIG money for such a project. If the bore is good and the stock not sanded below the metal, a much more affordable option would be to have the metal properly polished, re-engraved, re-finished and the wood re-finished as well. Good luck with it. I do have a special spot in my heart for Holland rifles.

There is nothing wrong with a restoration. IF and I say IF done properly. My personal approach is to make it look "less used" This may mean not quite taking out ALL of the ding, sometimes a bit of discoloration (grip mostly) simpy can't be all taken out.


The goal is to make it look like a rifle that was enjoyed and has a history but very well taken care of.

Your inestment so far ain't too bad

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
H&H will charge BIG money for such a project. If the bore is good and the stock not sanded below the metal, a much more affordable option would be to have the metal properly polished, re-engraved, re-finished and the wood re-finished as well. Good luck with it. I do have a special spot in my heart for Holland rifles.

Yeah, that's my thought as well...

But...with a new one going for roughly 30K+...I would have a good bit of room to work and still be under that.

We'll see. I sent a RFI to them to get a ballpark estimate for the work, assuming worst case where it needs a barrel and stock. The barrel may be ok...it's hard as I can't see it in person.

The stock isn't actually bad, it just has a ton of drop and would be horrid from a recoil perspective or with anything other than irons.

quote:

We'll see. I sent a RFI to them to get a ballpark estimate for the work, assuming worst case where it needs a barrel and stock.

when you get a reply, can you please post the information? I'd be interested to know that estimate.

cheers
- stu

Does it shoot? Before doing anything give the barrel a good thorough clean and remove the cobwebs, potatoes or whatever else is down there. Then see if It shoots - bedding may we’ll be compressed so don’t expect too much. As for the stock it and skilled sympathetic restoration can work wonders. Metal work can be reblued and engraving sharpened up.

Holland and Holland can do it, but there will be craftsmen more locally to you who can do the work.

I would like to see some pictures of the rifle.

Run, don't walk. Buy the rifle before it's gone. If you get it, pick up a lottery ticket while your at it. Not many get that kind of a deal.

Don't worry about the stock drop. Get professionally fitted and have the stock bent to YOUR dimensions. Only then will recoil be mitigated. Don't buy into the straight stock fallacy. We are all sized differently.

There are exceptional gunsmiths in the U.S. that can do you proud. No reason to ship overseas.

I also would love to see photos. Best of luck to you.

It didn't work out. On closer inspection, it had prior work done and would have been a serious pain to get back in shape... Plus the price went up at the same time.

It seems like buying a Rolex...it can be broken, not keeping time, band missing, scratched up...and the owner will still say "but it's a Rolex"...

quote:

It didn't work out

don't worry there are a lot of great rifles at that price and under.

I have refinished and restored a number of old English and German firearms, it never hurt their value, but its as much or more time consuming than building a rifle..

I bought a WR .375 from Bob Richards of WR and totally rebuilt it in the course of almost a year, last time I saw it was on the internet at a very well know store for $55,000. I bought it for $600 and traded it for a Jefferys double thru Robgunbuilder who got it for a friend. The friend sold the gun at a fair price it appeared an I lost track of the gun until I saw it on the internet some years later.. The firm had it in a leather case with all the candy and called it original and as new..I started to get involved and decided they would just write me off. After all what could they do since it had changed hands once again..and everyone was happy.

I have an H&H which needs a restock. Not a bolt gun but just a pistol grip butt stock and they quoted me £15,000 Sterling.
I guess they add the “Sterling” so you feel special about spending that kind of money!
Needless to say, they won’t be getting £1 Sterling from me...

I’ve had a number of rifles restored as buying new just isn’t an option in the world of British falling blocks. My bet is that you could find a high condition original H&H bolt gun that suits you for far less than it would cost to have them restock a rifle.

The Brits are way too proud of the work they do on older guns. Get any necessary work done here. All you get from the UK is a classy invoice. Another piece of advice is to buy condition and pay for it.

lockingblock, I had one of those Rolex's. It was engraved by my employer for 25 years of service. It would not keep good time, needed constant/expensive upkeep and like a gun that won't shoot it got sold.

Don’t tell anybody, but Rigby, Holland, Purdey etc magazine rifles are nothing more than nicely finished Mauser sectioned Rifles. I have a Rigby in my gunsafe. It’s postwar and a nice rifle. But actually a Parker Hale / BSA of the same vintage is pretty much the same in terms of looks, handling and functionality. And indeed a bit of stock reshaping would take care of the rest.

And a local Smith has just built a really nice 9.3x62 on an old military Mauser - and to be honest it’s pretty much on a par with anything else and totally usable.

Is your question should you buy a rifle you don't like, or have HH build you a new one, or are you after a working 7mm semi custom mauser?

You seem to not like the shape of the stock, the condition of the stock, the condition of the metal finish, the metal finishes/engravings, and it's not, by any means, a rare specimen or caliber -- it seems that the only draw is the label - i could be wrong, because i don't suffer from nostalgia - so take this with a grain of salt --

rule #1 in collectibles as an investment - refinishing usually reduces value, with some limited exceptions and conditions

a $3k OLD rifle had better shoot tiny groups, or have a heck of a story behind it, as it wasn't until the last c25 years that we began to expect ALL rifles to shoot MOA and function better than industrial sewing machines - a beat up rifle is likely to either function flawlessly or be just an accretion of flaws.

without an EXCEPTIONALLY well documented backstory, I, personally, don't care that the-rifle-I-don't-like has a famous name on it - but rifles are tools to me

personally, i would run from this "deal" as owning an H&H means nil to me, as a price inflation for a working rifle, or, in this case, what amounts to a barreled action project (as yo don't seem to care for the shape of the stock) --

This one is a tough call without pictures.

FIRST question you need to fully answer is what is the specific condition of the rifle as it is? It's already been over-polished on the barrel.
So what else has excess wear? Was the stock repaired and was it sanded down? Is the barrel pitted on the inside? Is the cocking piece worn out inside? Sloppy fitting bolt? Any options? Mauser flag safety or swing lever? Engraving? Horn tip, gabon ebony? Premium walnut, etc.
It has to have "good bones" as they in any restoration business to make sense having it restored unless it has some historical or family significance and money is of no concern.
Knowledge is key too. Familiarize yourself with H&H's and when the "right deal" presents itself, you'll know it.
By the way, some of the best builders in the world are right here in this country.

I had a H&H split stock, and the wood around the splits was chipped, and the man wanted it copied so nothing showed..impossible, but I did match the grain and wood color of a new blank, used his stock for pattern and had it cut 3/32s or there abouts over size, and the finished stock looked like the original in every detail..Refinishing has no rules other that it must look like it did when it was new, how you do it differs on every job..

I love restoreing old guns as a hobby..I wouldn't want to do it for a business..I really like listening to the good ole boys and the methods and tricks they use to restore, like using bailing wire to weld into pits, and by damn it works, polish it and blue, makes the barrels look new, but wow is it time consuming..Using sawdust from the gun to fill in checkering mixed with glass then recheckering..This stuff works, but its not easy..

Anybody got any tricks they want to pass on?? Im listening.

I thought everyone knew to use coat hangers, not bailing wire when welding up old Winchesters.

Merry Christmas

That worked until we ran out of coat hangers and the wife, said no mas..so we used up the bailing wire, now we have to use bailing string, its a changing world we live in..string is very difficult to weld with btw..