Will this work? The grain flows through the wrist fine but goes vertical in the butt. I could pin it if necessary, which would help with balancing it and recoil too (it has a 36" barrel).

I would not buy any firearm with a buttstock layout like that. IMO, just asking for a break.

Clarence

I have a piece of wood with layout similar and plan to turn it into a bowl. Mine may be worse, but there is too much work and cost in inletting (even self done) to have it break. If this was a .410 it might be worth considering, but even then there is a risk.

I was hoping there was a way to make it work* but if not, so be it. I'd rather pay to ship it off than have it break.

*Could pins epoxied in place work? Running through the length of the stock? This is a shotgun that could use to be heavier and balanced towards the rear too...

There is a way to make it work as shown.....inlet an aluminium tube in the wrist area. Browning has been doing it for years on their Lightning model. This is NOT an always can do fix. Recoil has broken stocks even with this feature installed....I have fixed more than one that has this procedure done to it. Usually by those who abuse their equipment or have a common carrier do it for them.

You must make sure the tube is under .490 in diameter and the hole which the stock bolt goes through is not over 3/8". If your stock bolt is larger than 3/8"...dont' try it. The tube is abutted against the receiver and the head of the stock bolt washer. This allows you to not over tighten the bolt and crush the wood. The tube is epoxied into the stock AFTER you have all of the other inletting chores done. Remember you can't make a pencil thin wrist with this method. Also remember to use LOTS of release agent on the receiver, threads, bolt, and bolt washer. No use making it a permanent fixture.

Rotate the butt about 45 degrees clockwise, the forearm about 90 degrees, and see what she looks like then...

You've got a fine slab of wood there, but as it stands your layout above is pretty bad in terms of grain flow in the grip area. Stocks just don't crack at the small of the wrist but also break in the web section below the comb nose down behind the grip cap area.For proper strength the grain MUST span the full length of the grip and well into the buttstock.

To do it correctly given the tight the arch of the grain flow in that piece of crotch, I would do a Winchester style layout.

Here is what I would do, using your picture above as a guide..Basically, ignore the placement of the forend for now. Take the buttstock pattern and flip it upside down. Then move the head of the stock to the upper left hand corner of the blank as seen in the photo and the butt end should be in the lower right corner.

The layout will look like this(only with a pistol grip of course).



Note how the grain properly bridges the ENTIRE grip section and continues deeply into the butt section. Winchester used that same basic layout for sunburst crotch for over 100 years and produced many thousands of strong, beautiful stocks with it. No thru bolts or reinforcing tubes needed. About the worst that can be said for such a layout in the toe section is a little weak. But in an era when most stocks have flat shotgun butts with recoil pads , that point is moot.

You will find that the sunburst curl arches down from the top of the comb more intense that way as well.

There should be room either along the top of the stock or the toe line to get your matching forend cut out.

Evan, it may be just fine, if it is flat sawn.
Can you take a photo of the front of the blank and post it?

If it is heavily rift cut our quarter sawn it is an example of "musket grip" and is not the best layout.
It would probably be ok as a thumbhole stock, but I doubt that is what you want.

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by AFreeman:
Evan, it may be just fine, if it is flat sawn.
Can you take a photo of the front of the blank and post it?

If it is heavily rift cut our quarter sawn it is an example of "musket grip" and is not the best layout.
It would probably be ok as a thumbhole stock, but I doubt that is what you want.

Adam

That is a quarter sawn sunburst crotch blank...

nothing "slab sawn" about it.

It's all right there in the photograph if you actual study it a bit...

Jim, did I offend you somehow?

I can easily present a photo of blanks showing the face where the blank appears as one cut but is in fact another cut.
Truth of the matter is one cannot tell everything about a blank u.less one sres the complete picture.

If this blank is thick, say 3", and is rift cut in such a way thst it is possible to cant the stock within the blank then Evan could have himself a stock that is more slab sawn and thereby he would be better off in this instance.

Further, montea6b had the best idea/solution.

All that said, black walnut trees get feather patterns early in the life of the tree. That being said this piece of wood could have come from a small diameter tree, ie. Young. If that is the case the right side can easily look very different than the left face shown. And if it is rift cut and evan is right handed and this blank came from the right side of the feather/crotch within the tree then Evan will have none of the figure present in the above photo when he has the blank turned.

Feathers do in fact present themselves brst in Qsawn wood, but the blank in question can easily be a steep rift cut.

My guess is that Evan showed the better side and that the opposite side has less feather and therefor is rift cut and the front/face of the stock is running at a 45 degree angle likely starting at the top right when facing the blank straight on and a possible cup to the grain flow of the front/head of the blank.
For those not understanding that statement, the face shown above would be the face down on a board going on your outside deck.

No offense meant, only trying to help Evan wjth his decision.
Cheers!

A

Adam.

No offense taken. Read my post and look at the pic again.

I lay out a cut pieces of wood identical to that nearly every day. Been doing it for over 30 years now.

Like I said- it's all right there in the pic if you now what to look for. Check out the bottom edge of the blank- that stock is nearly perfectly quarter sawn.

As to running the feather in from the bottom of the blank, if the arch of the grain flow was a bit flatter, that would work.The problem is the arch is pretty tight.

Even rotating it about 45 degrees you will still have too much grain running right down the line a crack would form behind the grip. Not much better than the layout shown.

I still say a basic Winchester type crotch layout is what that blank needs.

In situations like this, the OP here needs to make a "window" template of the stock pattern out of cardboard and then move it around on the blank. That way he can easily compare various positions and get optimum layout.

Fellas,

This is my first time doing a custom shotgun (and if you can't tell, I'm an amateur) so I really appreciate the help.

I've been in bed for the past couple days with a fever but will take some more photos today. I will make a "window" template too.

Thanks,
EK

For the sake of reference, here's the factory stock. I'll be largely copying this design, just slightly sharpening it up and fitting it to the owner.



This is the front of the blank, facing up.



Top of the blank



Underside of the blank

Here's the two current ideas, laid out on the blank (or at least I think).









Your thoughts?

They are roughly about equal in terms of strength. Pros and Cons with both.

I think both are stronger on the wrist and head than the layout in the first post.

Perhaps you could send the pics to your client and let him decided which thinks looks best? That is about the only meaningful difference at this point, IMHO.

I think the top layout is the most equal in terms of color and figure on both sides. I also think you will find the sunburst curl is a bit stronger due to the angle the light hits it.

BTW, 125 years ago- The top layout with the crotch coming in from the comb line was almost exclusively used by Winchester when laying out crotch walnut.

Marlin on the other hand almost always laid out the grain arching in from the bottom(as shown in the bottom photos) on their high grade levers and single shot Ballards.

I can email photos to the client but he's pretty much left everything up to me (family connection).

Essentially pillar bedding the stock screw wouldn't be a problem. I haven't precisely measured it yet but it seems to be about 1/4", although neither a 1/4-20 or 1/4/-28 screw would fit the receiver. However, a 1/2" OD pillar could work, and the length could help balance the stock some (depending on the weight of the wood after being shaped).

What are some of the pros/cons? Would Stevens/Savage/Fox have preferred one of the two layouts?

Evan,
Forget this blank. The time you put into making a stock is not worth putting into this piece of wood. It is a broken stock waiting to be made.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:
Evan,
Forget this blank. The time you put into making a stock is not worth putting into this piece of wood. It is a broken stock waiting to be made.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen posted here.

If the figure doesn't reflect the grain direction it's almost impossible for anyone here to make a decision on what's the correct layout. You have the piece of wood there so what you need to do is make sure the grain is running straight through the grip area and let the figure run where it will. I think it will be a great stock regardless of where the figure comes out. For me I just wish it was going on a better shotgun

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
For me I just wish it was going on a better shotgun

If we want to get into the backstory, the shotgun belongs to my girlfriend's grandfather's old hunting buddy (back from his 4-H days). He heard I mess around some with stocks and one thing led to another. The gun has a tremendous amount of sentimental value within the family so it's priceless. Frankly I'd rather cut my teeth on a Long Tom than a Parker or Purdey as well.

I'm leaning towards the "Winchester" style layout at this point (which would be the top two photos in my last post, right?). Here's a couple photos that show the grain in the fore-end a little closer with that layout. It was dark while I was taking photos so I've had to mess with them some to bring the grain out.





I'll take some better photos later today of the area in question.

Still hard to tell grain direction for sure Evan. If you are left with a question go to see a gunsmith who is also a stockmaker and I'm sure he'll give you some guidance free of charge. That way you'll be sure before you make the first saw cut that the stock you end up with will last another generation or two. I understand sentimentality too and I didn't mean to slam you although it came off that way. I have restored two .22's in the last couple of months that cost the owners far more than the rifles will ever be worth, but it was something they wanted done and I granted their wish. Made them very happy.

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Still hard to tell grain direction for sure Evan. If you are left with a question go to see a gunsmith who is also a stockmaker and I'm sure he'll give you some guidance free of charge. That way you'll be sure before you make the first saw cut that the stock you end up with will last another generation or two. I understand sentimentality too and I didn't mean to slam you although it came off that way. I have restored two .22's in the last couple of months that cost the owners far more than the rifles will ever be worth, but it was something they wanted done and I granted their wish. Made them very happy.

No harm done. It'll mainly be a wallhanger but job #1 is perfect function so the stock has to work.

Internet photos can only go so far. I think I might have some other eyes look it over in person.

Thanks for the help.

Any suggestions for the fore-end then? Cut it with grain going in the same direction as the butt and similar grain/color/figure?

Well, I've got the blank cut and inletting will begin. Any preferred methods on drilling takedown screw holes?





I went ahead and sanded the side without the pattern drawn. I think this will definitely need some stain (alkanet root?), but I think I got the most out of the blank. I might put some pins in it for safety's sake, but otherwise I'm satisfied with the layout. Pretty happy with the color and grain.