The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Custom Built Rifles Douglas or ShilenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Currently gathering parts to do a custom build on a 6.5 x 55 Swede. This rile will be built of a Pre 64 Action (thanks to Jim Kobe selling me one). Plan to load about 140g grand slams for it. Two questions: 1) would you go with a Douglas or Shilen barrel? Shilen offers only a 1/8 twist for a bullet heavier than 130g. Douglas says they offer a twist rate 1:7-12 depending on the twist you are looking for. I figure 1/9 is a good sweet spot? 2) I am considering a number two sporter barrel. Would you go with a contour to pattern an original Winchester Pre 64 Model 70 sporter, or would you go with a different one? Let me know if this makes sense or not... | ||
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Either of the barrel makers you mention will be good. For 140g, go with 1-8 twist. You can probably get a Douglas quicker if time is a concern. | |||
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Douglas. Period. I only use them.. I had two S barrels about 15 years ago that were not properly stress relieved and they shot two shots into .5 inch, and the rest 2 inches away. Every time. Douglas, only. And they are far easier to deal with, especially on my custom contours. Faster; no doubt about it. They keep 1000 blanks in stocks and contour them to order. Go with the pre 64 contour, which Douglas makes. It just look cooler. Douglas; Only. I will not fit another make any more. | |||
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I have used a number of Shilen barrels in the past and will continue to use them as my first choice Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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I like and have used both - opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I like Krieger. But they take forever to deliver. For good reason but there you have it. I need more friends in high places. Next are Lilja and Shilen, not necessarily in that order. And Pac-Nor. For big bores especially. Depends on timing for delivery for most of these. All are top quality. Not any kind of knock on Douglas. I have heard great things about them but have just not yet tried one. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Unless you are only going to use light weight bullets I would recommend at least a 1-8" twist. No point in limiting yourself. The barrel maker is a matter of choice. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind..." Hosea 8:7 | |||
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Mr Kobe has made me several customs with Shilen barrels. The accuracy of them is excellent. NRA Patron member | |||
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Sometimes the stars line up. The most accurate rifle I ever built was a 6mm Rem on a FN ...We could literally drive nails wih it at 100 yds time after time, any day...It was a Shilen barrel. For years now, I've gone to Lothar Walther primarily, but still use Douglas a fair amount of the time. and would not hesitate to use any and all of the barrels menioned here This is all antecdotal and really proves that just about all the barrels mentioned deliver better than acceptable acuracy. | |||
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I have a shilen barrel purchased from Brownells years ago. It is poorly machined. Did not realize it at the time or would have returned it. You can feel it when you wipe it down, otherwise I tend to forget about it. However, shoots just fine. Sample size of one so not much to go on. | |||
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If they are all the same (they aren't), why not go with the oldest, original, custom maker? That would be Douglas. | |||
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I have used several hundred Shilen barrels and had one bad one; which was replaced. I have used fifty or more Douglas with one which had a slightly rough spot. Douglas replaced that one. Of the two, I like Douglas' contours better, but there are times when the Shilen contours are more suited. In general though, I often modify the Shilens but leave the Douglas alone. The bottom line? Either will give good service. I would never use a twist slower than 8 for any 6.5mm. Regards, Bill. | |||
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Decided to go with a Douglas barrel; 1/8 twist four groove. Should arrive within the week from what I’m told. Thanks everyone!! | |||
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Im with Duane, most barrels today are good, but Ive had my best accuracy with Lothar-Walther.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Obviously one doesn't find out that a new barrel is "bad" until after it has been threaded, installed, and shot on a particular action. People have reported that barrel manufactures take back or replace a barrel if it is "bad". I am curious as to who decides the barrel is bad, what criteria makes it bad, and who then pays for the installation costs of that "bad" barrel? KJK | |||
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Bad is shooting one bullet into one place, then all the rest 1.5 inches away. Every time. That is bad, and is a direct result of improper stress relief. A task that many barrel makers can't seem to master. Of course, shooting all bullets into 4 inches is also bad; that used to be Wilsons. Ruger used them until 1990. Out of ten, 6 would shoot fine for hunting. Two would shoot MOA, and two would not hit a barn. But they were cheap, which made up for it. And as for LW, people like them because they are new. Not because they actually offer anything different. (Please don't tell me that they started business in 1550 making barrels, as some have tried to do.) | |||
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Not all THAT new... or THAT old.. Lothar Walther , the engineer, began making his barrels in 1925. They are simply one hell of a superior barrel that consistently delivers superb accuracy with about the finest finish in the industry. And...has mind boggling choices of contours with acceptable delivery times. What's not to like? | |||
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lilga on my 1922 Springfield . hard to not shoot 1 hole group | |||
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I think for most hunters it’s pretty hard to find a poor barrel these days. I’ve got 4 custom rifles, all on model 70 actions and each has a different barrel. They all shoot very good. .264 win mag has a 26” Krieger barrel and shoots .335” groups with Barnes 127 LRX’s. My .338 win mag has a 24” Lilja and shoots .50” groups with 225 TTSX’s. .375 H&H wears a 24” Shilen ‘Select Match’ and the very first load we tried, with a 300 TSX, shoots just under 3/4” groups. I’m sure we could tighten it up with a little work, but it’s certainly better than ‘minute of buffalo’. And my .416 Hoffman has a 22” Hart barrel and shoots .80” groups with a variety of 400 grain bullets. TSX, Bearclaws, Swift and Cutting Edge all shoot to same POI. I tend to think the manufacturer of the barrel is less important than the rifle builder. Quality components brought together by a skilled rifle builder will give you a great shooting rifle, regardless of component manufacturer. | |||
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Well then, who built your rifles? KJK | |||
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What you are mentioning is barrels by quality barrel makers. I have used all of these makers and they all shoot very well. You apparently haven't tried the less popular bargain barrels Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Not often that we get a barrel that is simply snake bit..but it does happen. In over 50 years in this buysiness, I acrtually sent back. only ONE! Now...ther are some things that "Tin god number one gunmaker" cannot forsee or expect. For instance, Many years ago,I thought it was apparently iompossible for me to build a 270 Win that shot acceptably, Even after the third barrel Turned out to my my brand new reamer! I won't name names, but some engineer at a reputable reamer maker decided on a "iniversal leed angle" Once I figured it out and a new reamer from different company...."viola" | |||
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Quality makers, there are some that aren't worth much. And yes, the reamer designer and even one brand I can think of are not worth the time to order, let alone use. | |||
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Jim, you’re right that these are all quality barrel makers. I haven’t yet tried Brux or Bartlein but would expect similar results from both. I had a Douglas barrel that shot well, but don’t have that rifle any longer. I can’t imagine why anyone would have a rifle built with 2nd rate components. All of the rifles I hunt with use the same major components; model 70 action- nearly all pre-64’s, Brown Precision stock, Timney trigger, quality barrel from whoever can deliver in reasonable time, Leupold VX5HD scopes in Talley mounts. Those rifles all feel pretty much the same in my hands, fit the same, weigh very close to each other no matter caliber. I like my rifles 8.75-9.25 pounds and they’re all inside that range. Kolo-Pan, I use a local rifle builder who lives near me. If I didn’t have someone good already, both Jim Kobe & Duane Wiebe have excellent reputations and would be wise choices for a custom built rifle. | |||
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DLS, I can tell you from my experience that Brux Barrels and Bartlein Barrels are both excellent, having installed many of both. Some of my own rifles wear these, and I have absolutely no complaints about either. The only down side to either is, availability,,, lead time , if what you want can't be found "on the shelf" somewhere. In this day and age we are lucky to have so many quality made choices when it comes to custom components for firearms. | |||
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