The different terms people use for rifles, how do we actually define the difference?
Should we describe each part of the rifle differently according to what was involved to create it?
The rifle you imagine to be custom may not be so custom after all!!..... ...

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:
... While I have several rifles that have been "customized", I don't own any custom rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
..we talking full blown custom stocks or duplicated stocks...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
"True Custom": a rifle that you pick out the pieces and parts, including the wood blank, and entrust the building to someone who will make you a rifle that fits you.
You do NOT settle for almost, or pretty close, or anything just off the rack.

Some follow up Questions;....

Does it make a difference when the smith buiding a rifle sources certain semi finished or completely finished items from another manufacturer as opposed to making them himself?

eg; your smith may make your scope bases from a block of steel, but order Talley rings, Blackburn BM,Dakota,Grisel or Talley grip cap ,Recknagel sight bases and barrel band.

Are the likes of Talley rings and various brands of grip caps,bolt handles,swivel bases, bottom metal, true custom items, or just a duplicated high grade product?
Ones Kreiger may have a unique one of custom profile that you specified, but the manufacture of the barrel itself is not something that we generally consider as custom, unless one specified a custom twist rate.

The dictionary definition of Custom is : "made or done to order for a particular customer"
by that account my 458 Win "Ole Ugly" is a custom rifle


Since beauty is highly subjective it has nothing to do with what makes a custom rifle. When I am in a thicket after a wounded bear this rifle IS beautiful, although I have plenty of prettier, more aesthetically pleasing rifles.

Custom
It means that I designed the action and had it built from scratch.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Custom
It means that I designed the action and had it built from scratch.

Shouldnt that also apply to everything else on the rifle to able to truelly consider it a custom?...otherwise its mostly a conglomeration[a mass of miscellaneous things] of other peoples ideas/designs....just asking

Essentailly when using military M98 or other prexisting action, lots of the hard work is done, whats left for the smith is to is modify and or refine to the customers needs or taste.With things like Bottom metal bolt handles and 3pos shrouds, many smiths will buy them in.
So is the finished rifle a true "custom mauser" or just a mauser thats been "customized" to some degree?
... or are those two terms the same thing?

Do you have to design a new action or can you use one that is already built? Does it have to be built completely by hand or can it be machine made or made in a factory? How about the barrel, the sights, do you have to build your own scope? Can the stock have ivory and mother-of-pearl inlays or does it have to be "classic". Can you use maple or mesquite?

This is all subjective and every person will have their own opinion. Sounds like the perfect topic for this forum.

Phil,

you are half right. It is ugly...

Rich

So ISS ,
is a rifle a true custom if the walnut stock is a duplicated one,the action a pre manufactured military M98 or Pre64, and the rest of the rifle is comprised mostly of duplicated off the rack inventory parts from different manufacturers? [be they from HalfMoon,Lapour,Talley,SMP,BB,Grisel,Satterlee,Recknagel,SunnyHill etc.]

,.. what you say?

"458 Win "Ole Ugly" is a custom rifle"
If this is not a custom rifle no one owns a true custom! I love both kinds of rifles walnut and synthetic! This is a true custom Alaskan rife INMHO!

Everybody has his own opinion of a custom. They are all right in their thinking. Who are we to decide if another guy has different ideas? I have seen a lot of things that I don't like but the owners are just as proud of their "custom" as I am of mine.
Butch

"Custom" is just a title. Words mean nothing as long as the owner finds the rifle enjoyable to use for it's intended purpose.

If you think of the term "custom rifle" and put it beside "hot girl" you can see it can mean very different things to different people.

So long as it fits the owners definition then a custom it is.
Ones wallet may also decide what level is reached before the tearm is apropriate.

Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Phil,

you are half right. It is ugly...

Rich

Rich, I'll consider being half right on this forum as a compliment. The other half of time my rifle is the most beautiful rifle in the world - but I wouldn't wish those situations on anyone.

Recreational hunters who are guided and have not experienced the much more regular and greater responsibilty of guiding, are likely to have less appreciation & understanding of the beauty of "pure functionality" that you as a guide, gives high priority to.

Trax,
Would you repeat that.
Butch

Butch,
I will try word it differently just for you.

Some folk weld their action recoil lugs on in a very basic non asthetic functional way, then opt for extensive outer asthetics in other areas.
Some people dont bother with or see the need for such asthetics and would just adhere to a less fuss/more functionality approach for all other areas of the rifle as well.
Some have the "less is more" approach to custom rifles, and some might like the rifle to be as good on the inside as it is on the outside, so will not spend their money on engraving or xtra fancy wood, but instead request the smith to do more internal action polishing to remove machine marks,also for slicker more reliable function, and/or ask the smith to ensure the metal has the same quality of improved detail and finish,both below and above the woodline.

That 458 of Phil's is not that aesthetically unpleasing to my eye. It has nice straight lines in both stock and metal, clean scope mounts and unobtrusive scope, a nicely shaped bolt handle, and heck the JB weld knob is even well done. The fact it has history and functions the way that it does just adds to the appeal.

Please Define;... Full Custom,Custom,Customized,Semi custom?

To me several of these terms are overlapping or interchangeable. Full custom or Custom could be the same to me, or you could through Custom in with Customized and Semi Custom.

For me, a 'full' custom means everything on the rifle is specific for that one rifle, and has been made or altered for the rifle, stock--whatever that is--barrel, including caliber, length, countour, material, finish, twist, mfg., trigger, and even scope bases/mounts.

Many of these can be the same as factory, if they are satisfactory to the owner, but to me tweaked, in example a remmy trigger honed and adjusted to customer specs. Or a stock action trued to be square,and tweaked to feed flawlessly--something beyond 'the way it is from the factory is satisfactory'.

To me, a semi-custom or customized rifle would have just one of the major components tweaked significantly or replaced. For example, a Remmy rifle restocked into a McMillan stock would be semi-custom, or customized. Just putting a Jewell trigger into an otherwise stock rifle is 'customizing' it to me.....

I have a few rifles that have been put into McMillan stocks, and are otherwise completely factory rigs, and I would call them semi-custom, or even customized....

fun question, and to each their own I suppose...I guess the gunmakers guild could have actual definitions though--to which I would defer of course!

all of these are to me

customized - means someone changed some parts or finish - generally not a rebarrel or restocking unless its a dropin.. things like .. trigger .. safety... springs .. heck, recoil pad.. or drilled and tapped .. added/removed sights ... changed finish of stock and/or metal

usually under 200 bucks?

semi-custom - to me, means rebarrel or rechamber to "better" (though rechamber can be "customized" in some cases) like setting back and rechambering for the same caliber .. rebarreling or changing caliber -that requires machine work (swapping barrels on a HR doesn't count) .. restocking yourself - but more work than m70 stock A to m70 stock B .. could be semi-inlet,.. action truing... new finish... caliber changes/action mods to feed them

usually under 1k
custom and full custom ... generally, the difference to me is if the action was made by the smith or not, but that's probably a meaningless distinction .. new stock, barrel, and the action worked over, very few "from the factory" parts, and none that aren't worked over first ...

the sky is the limit

Factory:
A rifle made with regard to quality to a set standard. Built in quantity, by skilled workers, who may or may not be master craftsman. There are factory made double rifles, lever actions, drillings, combination guns, shotguns, single shots and so on.

Semi-Custom:
Any modifications to a factory rifle. Could be: glass bedding, trigger work, new stock, new barrel, engraving, anything.

Custom:
Purpose built custom gun to fit an ideal concept and ergonomically built to that individual, if possible engraved to fit the customers dreams.

By my way of thinking I would break out the following examples of each of the three.

Factory:
A non special order rifle from Cooper, HS Precision, McMillan, Dakota, Blaser, Sauer, Remington, Sako, and so on would be a factory rifle. Of course cost would vary, but cost doesn't a custom rifle make.

Semi-Custom:
You take a factory rifle, or factory rifle parts and change it. Rebarrelling a used Ruger M77 in 375 Ruger and putting a custom stock on it would be semi-custom to me.

Custom:
To me this is having a custom gun built or building a rifle or shotgun, exactly to fit your needs.

How about something like a Borden where he makes the action, stock and barrel in whatever configuration you want?

I don't think you have to go all out at mega expense to have a custom rifle. My definition is a lot wider and IMO more practical.

A Custom:
1) Improves and corrects perceived faults and design features.
2) Personalises that rifle to reflect the owners personality.
3) Improves a rifle so that it becomes a surgical tool, an invisible extension of the hunter/owner.

The combination done properly blend together into a functional work of art.

Each to their own, and that is what it is all about.