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I am actually Jays son and am currently saving up for my first gun.I'm 13 and the 2 guns I have my eyes on are the Heckler & Koch USP 9 and the Colt Match M4.I need to know which would be a better buy.The USP would be fitted with a laser/flashlight and I might put a Bushnell/EOTech Holo sight on the Colt if I choose that.I will read any and all oppinions.I need facts for a good decision. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | ||
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Tyler, it is the single most popular word, Colt. "God created all men, but Sam Colt made all men equal". ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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So,does that mean I should get the Colt? Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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I'd opt for something a little more useful. Your talking a grand to $1400 for the gun alone. The another $300 for a sight. Your looking at $1700 "blaster"... niether of which would make a good first gun. I couldn't begin to guess at how much money I have tied up in guns, nor do I have any clue just how many I have. But I do know that I have a bunch of favorites that get used the most. And of the rifles, none of them cost me more than $65 [ 08-09-2003, 06:24: Message edited by: cas ] | |||
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I agree, while there is nothing as fun as blasting with an AR or pistol, save your money and get a gun you can use and enjoy, like an 06, you can still blast and have a grand old time, and also have a gun with purpose. So go get somthing like a M-1 garand if your bent on getting a semi auto,its fun to blast, easy to shoot, and you can even hunt with it. or for the cash your talking for a gun, get a nice custom rifle that you can hunt and shoot for the rest of your life. [ 08-09-2003, 12:41: Message edited by: Dark Paladin ] | |||
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Listen,I dont really care about those guns.I want a nice quality M4 without a 2-stage trigger.You guys find one of those and I might reconsider.But until then Im getting a Colt.I dont want to just blast around.I plan on not going to collage and going to the military.I'm not going to be using some old M1.I'll be using a decent weapon.Maybe not as acurate a frickin costom .308 with a jewel trigger on a bench but it will get the bad guys down.I'm not looking for sub MOA accuracy.I want a nice M4.I will be reloding for it.I already have a 22-250 bolt action and Oly Arms is said to be crap accept by Cold Bore and want to shoot free hand.Plus I already shot a M1 and wasn't that impressed.So you guys find that M4 and then tell me what kind of rifle to get. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. [ 08-09-2003, 19:37: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ] | |||
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If i am not mistaken I don't think they let you use your own weapon in the military maybe sidearms. get an SKS for blasting | |||
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Tyler, to many influences, just take my word, my young lad, you won't go wrong. IMHO, you can't beat it. | |||
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Ok... lets put it this way. You can't have an "M4". If you want some AR variant or M4 look alike, start saving your nickles. | |||
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I'm not going to be "blasting".I know I cant use my weapon in combat.I want to learn how to usr the weapon.I never said "bring it with me into every firefight".Find a better M4 than the Colt and I'm never getting a SKS.EVER.I hate them.I'd rather get a FAL or something like that.But until you find that "better than Colt M4" M4 I'm listening to everything CC has to say.CC, got any info on that M4.Accuracy or something like that?Oh, and I will not put that EOTech holo sight on.Price isn't really a problem either.I heve saved up over 300$ now. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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Tyler, my recommendation: forget the combat fantasies. You're what? 13? You don't know what you want. Trust me on that one. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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I want a M4.I plan to join the military.You can't tell me what I want.I don't really care what you want.I just want info on rifles I like or am planning to get.If you wanna say how much you dont like Colt I'll read but pay no atention.I don't like Rock River Arms.If someone says they wanna get one,good for them.And if theres something terribly wrong,I would tell them.I woundt tell them"You don't know what you want get a Bushmaster competition model and join some club".Again,if anyone finds that M4 with awsomely perfect accuracy with a single stage trigger and a free float barrel under 7.5 lbs tell me otherwise I'm getting the Colt Match M4. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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Whateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever. ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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Tyler- What a reversal. You've gone from asking questions & listening to input, to telling others what THEY don't know, and what you ARE going to do. It's turned confrontational. How do you expect anybody to give you any more meaningful suggestions if you turn around and slap them? You used to get a lot of responses, and lots of guys were trying to help. Now, you've just alienated everybody. Skip college, join the military (you may have a short career with the new attitude...), spend extra money on a Colt. Hey, you've got life figured out early.... It's your life, and your money. Spend them both wisely. | |||
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An M4 is select fire carbine. (You can't have one.) An M4 has a 14 inch barrel. (You can't have one.) An M4 has a telescoping stock. (You can't have one.) Any more info you need? If your going to join up when your old enough... you won't need to buy one. They're going to loan you one. One last thing Tyler... do us a favor and use the space bar between sentences. It'll make it much easier for us to read. [ 08-11-2003, 03:36: Message edited by: cas ] | |||
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Better still Tyler, shut the fuck up!!! | |||
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Listen,I listen to all you guys except Harley #2 and want facts.If you guys try to tell me what rifle to get I'll listen and maybe check out the rifle but if I don't like the rifle I won't save for it.I have nothing against any of you.I'm just saying I'm saving for the Colt.Crazy Cledus and one other guy I chatted with like Colt.I plan to join the military.Not go to collage.Is that illegal to plan ahead?Or am I suposed to decide right when I get out of highschool?I ask for info and people tell me to get a rifle that I never planned to get.I don't want to blast I want to get a short barreled rifle and shoot for fun.Not for competition.Anyone ever heard of FUN?Or does everyone spend days trying to find the perfect load and then shoot for hours only to repeat the reloading process?So if you wanna swear at me and try to make me feel bad it wont work.I don't even know any of you.And you dont know me.I dont really give if my grammar is bad.I dont pay atention to teachers that scream at people.Well,feel free to swear disrespect or try to make me feel bad. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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quote:Did it ever occur to you that you don't know much at this point in life? Did it ever occur to you that going to college and a military career, or even just four years of service, aren't incompatible? Did you ever hear about ROTC, or Annapolis (you can become a Marine Corps officer upon graduation), or West Point, or Officer Candidate School? Or maybe I'm just telling you what you already knew...... Maybe if you started LISTENING to people who have about 100 times more experience in life, we might take you seriously. quote:Holy shit. You WILL go far in the military.... And another thing, your pathetic writing skills should be an embarrasment to you AND your father. If you think education and culture don't matter in today's world, well, you won't go far in it. Let's just leave it at that. [ 08-11-2003, 06:00: Message edited by: Orion 1 ] | |||
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quote:*Attitude Problem Alert* "I don't really care what you want." (from Tyler) And we are way past caring what you want. Go to school, learn to spell and construct grammatically correct sentences, then buy whatever a 13 year old can legally purchase. Unless you're counting on your father, that you're ignoring, to 'straw purchase' one for you. You've got a LOT of growing up to do before you get a way cool (and illegal) firearm. Copping an attitude with the same people you're seeking help from is a very bad plan. I stand by my previous statement that 'Father Knows Best'. And by the way, when you get old enough to join the military the M4 will probably be in mothballs. XWind | |||
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I got one thing to say to all of you.I'm sorry.I know your all trying to help but sometimes I get mad when it seems people aren't listening.I want to shoot for fun and hit a man sized target at 100+ yards.This isn't a joke either.I hope you all understand.If you don't,thats o.k.Sorry to all of you especially Gary.My bad.I hope your forgiving.Actually I don't listen to teachers who scream at people for reasons like forgetting stuff from months ago only to not yell at another kid asking the same question.Got anything to say,I'll read it. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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Hey, Tyler, I know where you're coming from. I was a teacher for 3 and a half years. I was also an impulsive teenager for about 30 years. With all that stuff whizzing about in your mind, it's tough to both develop and use self-control. And the times you think you are using self-control, someone with better skills than you really screws you. Having said that, yes, Colt sells a product called National Match M4. It is not a REAL M4, as in the select-fire (3 round burst, not full-auto) which is carried by the military. It does closely resemble it's looks, however. I don't see why a responsible teenager couldn't use one to do some shooting. I, personally wouldn't have one, as the ten round mags would quickly p.o. me. It is my understanding that the current crop of Colt products will NOT accept hicap mags, but if you're okay with that, that's cool. But, you say you like the Colt, and that's that. As far as the USP, from a personal standpoint, I don't care for the 9 mm in such a large package, in addition to which, the military buys its SOCOM pistol, it's big brother, in .45 ACP, so if (and I just might) I buy a USP, I'd go the .45 ACP route, and "roll my own" .45 super rounds and shoot those through it. Perhaps if I knew why you were interested in 9mm, I'd be able to offer better advice. While it is the NATO standard, all the "operators" I know either use the Sig Sauer P226/228, the H&K pistol caliber carbines, or the SOCOM in .45 cal. Hey, there's an idea! Have you considered the H&K carbine in a pistol caliber, like 9mm or .45 cal? They are extremely effective at 100m, and are currently in common use in the US military. All of our generals' body guards use them, for example. (In combination with the Sig pistol). Stay cool. Stay alive. | |||
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Then look into a Colt (or its variant) in the AR-15, maybe? Standard stock, standard length barrel, semi only, after this I give up. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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Morning guys, Tyler doesn't want a full auto, just a 16" version with the tele-style stock, like the XM15 M4 Bushmaster Post-Ban Carbine, he don't realize it right now, but I guaranteed him when he gets older, he'll want a A2 version instead, he wants a rifle now that he can handle better, so he can shoot free-hand more comfortably, and to him, thats the 'shorty' version of the ARs, I wouldn't mind having a RR NM or varmint rig myself, I really dig 2 stage triggers with a 1lb 2nd stage, the RR probably shoots better than my VS .223, shot it yesterday, and was really disappointed with the 53 HOR. match bullets I was shooting, had them .010" off the lands with 24.7grs. of H335, WSR primers, Win. brass, smallest group was 1.075", well, maybe the rifle just don't like them bullets, REM. 50gr. Power-Lokts shot a hair over 1/2" with 25.5grs. Benchmark, Go figure. Jay [ 08-11-2003, 19:49: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ] | |||
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quote:I recommend going to one of those machine gun rental places and blasting to your heart's content. Budget $500 for the event so that you can really get it out of your system. Then get a useful rifle - either a varmint rifle or a deer hunting rifle. If you are interested in military arms shooting, find out if there is an NRA or DCM sponsored 'High Power' youth program in your area and join it. There you will learn how to use an AR-15 at 200, 300 and 600 yards. | |||
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500Grains, Tyler's got a VSSF 22-250 now, and he shoots it just as well as I do, he's just enamored by the weapons used by the characters for some of his Playstation II and XBOX games, Oh, I'm sure he wouldn't mind shooting a machine gun, but he realizes that would waste alot of ammo and would get quite expensive in the long run. I'm trying to teach him that a accurate gun is more interesting than not, but try telling that to a 13 year old. Jay | |||
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Listen, I'm only 13 myself, but I know a hell of a lot more about guns than (most) others of my age and know what it is like. I have gone through this myself and so have others. But if you really think about it, game designers usually dont know anything about guns. For instance, in most "shoot-em-up" games, you may have , say a 9mm carbine, and a 9mm pistol, but you need to find 2 different kinds of ammo, one for each of them. And in games, there is nothing other than "standard" ammo (hardball or FMJ), and anything else , well there isnt anything else. Also, the implied lethality of a gun in games is always exagerrated yet downplayed. Like, you can shoot someone in the foot, once, and they die instantly. But if you shoot somebody int the body, they will keep going until you put x number of shots into them. no real factors are taken into account, like penetration, expansion, body mass and density, that fact that all your enemies are never always alike or so similiar, or that some people are harder to stop than others. Games also give unbeleivable confidence. Anybody that really wants to do those kind of things in real life needs help. NOW!! There is no way to survive getting shot 20 times and still be running, jumping, kicking, and saving people. Like I said before, almost all game designers have no idea, say, what a M77/22 is. All they know is what they think would be soooo deadly. How many bolt action, or double rifles do you see in games? I think that I would want to carry an aluminum bat rather that carry a 24 lb. OICW or 12lb. SPAS 12. Just because they look "military", doesnt mean they are any deadlier than other shotguns, pistols, or rifles. And for the same reason, it doesnt mean its full-auto. There is practically no difference between "M-4"'s and, say a Mini-14 except for looks, and applied "lethality" | |||
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And besides, I think I should know what I'm talking about with the looks, because I did a 13 page, 11 size, single space, very thorough report on the ludicrous "assault weapons ban". | |||
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And, if you are actually reading what I write, then 300 bucks is nothing. I mean you could build a bare-bones gun for 500, possibly 450, but it would not be at all satisfying and would work like it was already broken. you need to save up for a few more years for a good gun, and a little more for a Colt. | |||
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Yeah I know games are fake.Ever played Metal Gear Solid 2?All but a few guns are fake and all are as real as they can make them.Also the creator of the Metal Gear series has military people that help to make his games as realistic as possible with weapons and other stuff like that.You should check it out.That's how I found out about the 9mm USP.Yeah,I see guns in games.After I check online to see if they are any good.Then I ask people.What do you think would be better,a USP 9 or the Colt Match M4?I know that both are pretty high for pricing and the USP is about 300+$ less than the Colt.I prefer Semi-auto rifles and have a Remington Model 700 22-250 and sometimes it doesn't shoot good at all.It's not special or anything and I don't expect to get a group that would break a record.Well what would you rather have.The USP or the Colt?My friend said that I should get a computer with that money I got. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. | |||
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Okay, your hooked on these guns. But I will only do this if you stop calling them M-4s. The real generic name is AR-15. If you really want something thats "yours" for the AR, first get the brownells catalog: http://www.brownells.com and the numrich gun parts corp. catalog (dont know address, search for it) I, personally, would not buy a factory rifle, because all companies have their ups and downs. It really doesnt matter who you are buying from, all they change is their logo on the receiver. If you want, I could send you a list of things you should get for a certain purppose i.e. tactical, varmint, defense, benchrest,pistol ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} , etc. and where to get them from at some of the best prices. I have to admit that I myself am hooked on getting an AR.Just send me an email: iq_shredder@hotmail.com I have a list of most (online) companies that have AR parts and accessories. | |||
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Get an AR before they are banned completely!!!! | |||
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I call them M4s because at the Colt website they call it the Match Target M4.Go to www.colt.com and see for yourself.I was going to get the M4 but wanted to see what you thought.My dad still wants me to get Rock River but I don't want a 2-stage trigger.But I say that Colt M4 is for me.What should I call M4 type rifles?The semi-auto one I mean?Oh I was wondering if we should just e-mail each other through hotmail.That might be easier.My e-mail adress is jarhty28@hotmail.com. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. [ 08-12-2003, 02:02: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ] | |||
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This is fun, listening to 13 year old experts. | |||
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Orion 1,are you still pissed at me?I said i was sorry.I mean it too.I'm sorry.I thought about what i said.I am far from being a expert.Please don't stay mad at me. Thanks,Tyler Gorski. [ 08-12-2003, 05:45: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ] | |||
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quote:My state of relaxation is none of your business. | |||
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quote:I'm not angry at you. I'm at the point that I don't really care what you do. See you never. | |||
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| <Eric> |
"My state of relaxation is none of your business." (Laughing loudly he replies,)No it's not, and like you, it's because I really don't care. But then, I'm not trying to impress anybody, just have a good time. Regards, Eric | ||
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The common fun term is "M4gery". You don't HAVE to get a two stage trigger in a Rock River or any AR lower. Please tell us about your past experiances with a two stage trigger that have turned you against them so. | |||
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| new member |
Tyler, In remaking the AR-15 as the more politically correct 'Sporter', Colt changed the pin diameters on the trigger group which means there are fewer aftermarket trigger options. The forward pin thats holds the upper to the lower receiver is actually an oversized screw-together assembly, not a captive push-pin. That means disassembly and the ability to slap on another upper receiver is a little more complicated. Its all very exasperating and may still be the case with the Match Target series of rifles. For super gadgetry, check out www.zmweapons.com | |||
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