The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Military & Military Surplus 6.5 carcano and kennedy stigmataGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 6.5 carcano and kennedy stigmata | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
anybody out there ever shoot a 6.5 carcano that was accurate? what about one that didnt keyhole my experience with carcano's hasnt been good, only owned 3 so far a six foot group at 100yds would be good. i think JFK died of RAPID ONSET STIGMATA and a 6.5 bullet showing up on a gurney is worse than some of the stuff they do on pro wrestling. if a carcano were to shoot strait the 160gr bulllet would have unbelievable penetration and wouldnt stop in the middle of somebodys brains or any other body part only to fall out on a gurney so any carcano collectors or shooters out there let me know if a 6.5 carcano is capable of any kind of accuracy If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | ||
|
One of Us |
the only ammo i have ever shot out of my carbine was some norma .264 ammo. Lucky to hit a milk jug at 50 yards. Been looking at loading some of hornadys .268 160gr RNs for better results. Auburn University BS '09, DVM '17 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a Type I that shoots 2" groups at 100 yds. It is of course a 6.5 Ariska. | |||
|
| one of us |
No. They dont exist.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a 7.35 M38 Carcano with a clean bore I bought as a curio, just to have one, that isn't particularly bad if you aren't going to shoot past 100 yards. At that range it'd be more useful than most sidearms, anyway. Not exactly a Mauser or M1. Groups around 6-7" at 100. I've only shot it with the factory irons. Paid 20 bucks for it at the pawn shop long ago, didn't seem worth putting a scope on, was just curious to shoot one and see how fast I could cycle the bolt and get back on target with irons. I even slicked it up and bedded it to give it it's best chance. I can manage the 5.8 seconds but the last shot misses the entire 3x5 target to get the shot off before the buzzer as often as not. I've been thinking about making a lamp out of it. Replace the butt plate with a walnut base and put some sort of lighting fixture and lampshade on the muzzle. It's somewhere in the bottom of my closet as it doesn't get to live in a safe. Wouldn't lose any sleep if it were stolen other than the lamp idea. I will give it this credit, it is more accurate than my Snider Enfield 1:78 twist Cavalry Carbine where the projectile hasn't even come close to completing one revolution before leaving the barrel, but that really doesn't say much at all does it? Wallhangers are wallhangers but at least the Enfield says Westley Richards on it and is pretty in a mid-19th century sort of way. | |||
|
One of Us |
I saw something about the Kennedy Assasination on the Discovery Channel the other night. They recreated the scene in Dallas and ran a few scenarios about the "grassy knoll" shooter. They had a sharpshooter make the shot from the same distance and elevation as the book depository was. He made the shot and was using a Carcano carbine. Looked like it had a Leupold scope on it instead of whatever the scope was Oswald had, but he still hit the dummy in the same spot JFK was shot. Interesting program in that it scientifically disproves the grassy knoll shooter that the conspiracy theroist have talked about. 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Probably had a different barrel to go with the leupold and carefully selected ammunition. Show me somebody that does it with a Mil Surp rifle with a tree in the way and a steam pipe in the way on the other side who was known as a bad shot during his time in the service, with wobbly scope mounts, a crap scope, and surplus Italian ball ammo and I'll believe it. Of that batch of rifles Oswald had there was actually a lawsuit ongoing at the time of the assassination against the importer alleging all of the rifles imported were defective. Take that how you will. The BATFE can make a mini-14 "obviously" a machine gun if you let their technology branch spend enough time figuring out plausible modifications. The FBI has had piles of cases thrown out because of sloppiness in their ballistics lab. THESE ARE ALL FACT. Many people wanted Kennedy dead, if you have an overlap of 4 or a dozen conspiracies that often involve people that tangentially know or have known each other it makes it almost impossible to figure out what really happened. That's why it will remain unresolved. The problem with most conspiracy theorists is they all have their "one true conspiracy" that was the cause when there very well may have been many. Whose to say it wasn't a fellow one window over with a Garand and Oswald was "just a patsie" as he said. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Actually Tom, Oswald qualified as "sharpshooter" during his first qualifying attempt. It wasn't until later that he barely made "marksman". As for a new barrel in the Carcano, thats a pretty silly thought. As best I could tell the Discovery Channel was trying to be as accurate as possible in what they were trying to do, including using a beat up old Carcano AND ball ammo, though it did have nicer glass. I doubt they would go thru the trouble of installing a new barrel, if they could even fine one, on a rifle worth about $15 in present day. I dont know anything about a tree or steam pipe, so I'll give you that. But personally I don't think it was that hard a shot. It was less than a hundred yards on a target the size of a milk jug going slowly away. And anyone who is fairly competent with a bolt action rifle can get three aimed shots off in 8 seconds. As for a lot of people wanting Kennedy dead, I don't doubt it. A lot of people want a lot of people dead, some even make it happen. But it doesn't mean there is a conspiracy behind every one. Was John Hinkley part of a group conspirators, how about Sirhan Sirhan, what about John Wilkes Boothe? Conspiracy Theory...sorry don't buy it at all. Do you believe the 9/11 attacks were government orchastrated too? 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I saw a recreation done in Australia on some science TV program on satellite TV. They uses the same model 6.5 Carcano carbine but put a larger power and better scope on it because they wanted to see if the one bullet theory was true. That is the bullet passed through JFK first then Connally. They had two very expensive artificial dummies made up including a fluid to equal blood and he made the shot from the same height off the ground and distance. He had the same lot of ammuniation which Oswald used, which I believe was FMJ Winchester. Not only did the recreation have exactly the same results you could hardly tell the difference between the real bullet and the test bullet. As for 6.5's have deep penetration that is true, but when they pass through a body into space before hitting another body they tend to tumble which the real bullet did and the test bullet did. Now for Carcano's. They get a bad rap. When the Italian's had time to make them and in the beginning they used the finest steels they could buy. For example the early barrels were Bofors. You can't get much better then that in those days. Some of rifle had gain twist which wasn't good in that rifle and caliber and even worse some rifles were cut down to carbines which in turn made the rifling twist entirely wrong for that long 6.5 bullet. For those shooting the 6.5, if you don't have a .268 diameter bullet you're accuracy isn't going to be very good. Most have groove diameters that size or larger. Oswald's shot wasn't really that long of a shot, I believe in the 80 yard bracket. Even though the 6.5 has good penetration don't forget that the muzzle velocity of that round isn't all that great. | |||
|
| one of us |
The show on the Discovery channel replicated a shot from the grassy knoll using a Winchester M 70 in what looked like .264 Magnum. Then they claimed this shot was unlikely due to over penetration! Why didn't they use a .22 CF with a hollowpoint? Whoever took the shots from TSBD window could have easily sprayed the limo with a Carcano using open sights- forget about the lousy scope. But keep in mind an 80-88 yd shot at a partially concealed moving target while under duress, I feel is challenging... Also, the Carcano uses a 6 shot clip. Only 4 rounds where found, one in the chamber, and 3 casings neatly arranged around the sniper's hide... Who attempts to assassinate someone with a short loaded clip? Hell, I go squirrel hunting with a full clip! It is said the ammo used was Winchester Western brand which would have been true 6.5 not .268, correct? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not having examined that particular Winchester ammo I can't say for certain, but would assume it was .264. I think Hornady offters a .268 bullet. Graf & Son does too, I think both Hornady and Priva. | |||
|
| One of Us |
"Who put the last 7 bullets in Mussolini's body?" "300 Italian sharpshooters!" LaughIn, tv show. I thought that was hilarious until a friend, mil. surplus nut, showed me his latest prize. 6.5 Carcano. Best made piece of junk I ever handled. Fixed sights on a battle rifle? I asked if he had a new hobby or ??? He had no idea what I was talking about so I pointed out to him that he had a "FAG" rifle. It said, "FAG" on the side of the buttstock in 3 inch white paint letters. So he had to explain to me that the Italian army designates manufacturer with white paint letters on the wood... this one was F(abricated)A(t)G(arcoin)... There were also arsenals at Turin and Bresca so you could have a FAG rifle or a FAT rifle or a FAB rifle... When the same store had springfields and enfields for only slightly more money... I smelled a rat from day one... (Kleins. They owned the back cover of The Rifleman...) I have my own life to worry about. Regrets to the Kennedys. I have to wonder what lies in store for Mr. O and at the comparisons. Hope not but well beyond my control. oh wellllll | |||
|
| One of Us |
Makes sense as the Carcano uses an en-bloc clip, therefore when it has a scope mounted on it, it will have to be loaded single shot and subsequent rounds would need to be loose for easy access. Being it was Win ammo that came in a 20 round box, no clip was available. | |||
|
| one of us |
I was always confused by the number of aimed shots fired in the time in question. It seems to me to be not easy to fire (3?) aimed shots in the time specified by the tape recordings. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
|
| One of Us |
Oswald may have fired the shot from behind and above- which entered somewhere around the base of the neck and exited through the lower throat region,...but he must have been darn good to then get infront of JFK to put one in through the front RH quarter of his skull. | |||
|
| new member |
FWIW: LBJ is on record as saying that he gave up being the most powerful person on Capitol Hill because it made him a step closer to the presidency, when the odds of going from VP to President without the unfortunate death of a president are historically VERY low. Carcano carbines are not great or horrid rifles, but they're clunky at best. One fellow who served with Oswald once postulated that if he had to choose anybody in the world to allow to shoot at him, it would be Lee Harvey Oswald. That's in the Warren Commission files if you dig enough. Whatever happened happened. I'm a doubter on the Carcano theory. Maybe he got lucky, maybe it was a mafia or CIA hit. Any way you slice it, the Carcano isn't that nice of a rifle which is why they aren't worth anything. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Oswald's scope was mounted in a stamped side mount that is offset to the left side allowing loading with the clip. The Winchester ammo was military ammo loaded for use in large numbers of captured Italian weapons. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you look at JFKs autopsy photos and various diagrams of his head wound you will find that he was hit in the rear upper right side of the skull. The bullet did not go not much below 3/4" under the surface of the skull and exited at the front. This information is older than the internet. It was not a difficult shot at 80 yards with a support. | |||
|
| One of Us |
About the time to fire 3 shots remember the first one is not timed, It only starts the timer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lets maybe hear some other opinions, any true forensic type people here? JFK http://images.google.com/image...=Search+Images&gbv=2 | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
I have used quite a few italian 6.5mm rifles, they are usually more accurate than the Mauser that is so revered and really does not deserve it. I like Mausers but they are far to be the best military rifles. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have one, had two, a 91/41 that had been sporterized or more correctly bubbaized. It had a side mount, Weaver I believe, which I removed because you couldn't charge it with a clip when installed. The rifle shot one and a half moa at 100 yards with scope and handloads using .268 horn bullets, still working on cast .270' loads for it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I saw a report where the head wound was put back together as good as possible for the photo. Slowing down the video's that they have showed a spray coming off the back of JFK's head and his head whipping back faster then humanly possible. The believe he was shot from the front with a high velocity expanding bullet, which the 6.5 ammo Oswald used is not. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The ONLY video of his head being shot is the Zapruder film and the spray clearly blows out the front of his head when exiting. The Zapruder film is on the internet in multiple places. Check frame #313. | |||
|
| One of Us |
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/I...hots/Jet_effect.html http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/jfk.htm | |||
|
| One of Us |
Look at frame #313 instead of reading someone's theory and make up your own mind. | |||
|
one of us |
very very true and something I had not thought of, so its really 2 shots in the elapsed time. there was only one shooter and it was oswald, anyone else just wants to fuel a conspiracy, the longest shot was 88 yards, also keep in mind the tree you see blocking the view today was likely much smaller 45 years ago. bullet sounds would echo around those buildings, I could easily see how there would be different accounts. as to what made oswald do it and if someone paid him to do it etc, maybe, but I doubt it, I think he just came up with the idea kinda spur of the moment and acted on it. it too bad ted isn't more like his brother. in times when one needs a rifle, he tends to need it very badly.....PHC | |||
|
| One of Us |
....yeah guess that answers why Jack Ruby (affiliated with the Mafia) killed Oswald in the police depts building. Someone wanted Ossy shut up. There's a better film and it's sealed forever, taken by an old friend of JFK's in the car behind his. He put it in his will never to be shown. Why is so much stuff sealed if Oswald was the only one that did it? | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
 | |||
|
| new member |
Oswald should have saved up and bought a decent deer rifle with good optics or a surplus M1 and he'd have less doubters today. Nobody would question his "legacy". Nobody would have questioned Whitman under any circumstances that might have resolved the Tower incident because he was a good shot with good tools. I still say the Carcano is a clunky rifle and Oswald was a notoriously bad shot in the service. Conspiracy or not, I'd have gone with better gear if I wanted to be "famous". | |||
|
| One of Us |
None of us would want even a kook shooing at our heads from 80 yards with ANY rifle. | |||
|
| new member |
I'd reckon, actually, that none of us would want a kook shooting at us in any form, much less the head. He just didn't pick easily convincing equipment. | |||
|
| One of Us |
i would like the carcano if i t were accurate saftey is horrible, lock time like a flintlock but the carbine are handy , and i think people are under the impression that the bbl.s have been shortened which ruins gain twist , but most carcanos are carbines with 17 or 20 in bbls trigger pull is much better than my type 44 arisaka. tests i have done with a wrist rocket slingshot only give the carcanos ive owned a slight advantage and the sling shot didnt have a bayonet so the carcano would be deadlier i would like to know where to get a carcano in 6.5 that will shoot the 1.5 minute of angle ive shot surplus and the .268 handloads and i can shoot nmuch better with a .38 snubbie If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
|
| one of us |
I was a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist, had several books telling how JFK was shot several times by 45's, high-powered rifles from manhole covers, overpasses, fences, grassy knowles, etc. Then several years back I actually WENT to Dealey Plaza and walked the ground, stood in the window next to the one Oswald used (they wont let you stand in the "Snipers Perch"), gazed down on the big orange X painted on the street where the car was when the last shot was fired. The first thing that ran through my head was "Anyone down there where the X is was a sitting duck from here!!" The long shot would have been a slam dunk for anyone with minimum experience using a rest and a slow moving target. The 2nd shot that struck Connelly and JFK looked like I could make it with my duty sidearm!!! I was shocked to see just how close the shots were. I went back there last February and am still amazed at the close range of the ordeal! I too have seen the Discovery show where the 6.5 was used, the thing I took from it was if a rifle was used from the Picket Fence then Jackie would have been struck by the round after it hit JFK if FMJ was used, or a devastating wound would have happened if hunting ammo was used. Was Oswald using the best rifle? Hell no! Was he better than average shot? Yes! Is the shots repeatable in the time allowed? YES! As my old LT said, "I would rather be lucky than good!!" Oswald got lucky that day in Dallas. My .02 Eterry Good luck and good shooting. In Memory of Officer Nik Green, #198, Oklahoma Highway Patrol Troop G...Murdered in the line of duty 12-26-03...A Good Man, A Good Officer, and A Good Friend gone too soon | |||
|
| one of us |
I have a box of Western 6.5MM mann carcano, with mil lot numbers ect and always wondered what it was from. Maybe it's the rest of the box of shells LHO used, I'm open to offers on them  Anyway, I pulled and measured one just now, .266 dia. FMJ bullet. I've only shot 4 or 5 carcanos, but couldnt keep them on a pumpkin at 75 yds off a benchrest with military ammo. I did finally rebarrel one on a lark, to 35 rem. Throated it out to take 200 grn spitzers. I works and shoots great, and is a fun conversation piece along with a good cast bullet gun. Still only have $50 in the whole project gun, new sights and all ( take off barrel I had). | |||
|
| One of Us |
I lived 90 miles from Dallas when Kennedy was shot. I heard every possible nutty theory about JFK's death for the next several decades in the local news media. I have also been by the site of the shooting a number of times. I never thought that there was much remarkable about Oswald's shooting. He missed once completely. If Kennedy had been shot from the grassy knoll a lot more of him would have been blown all over Jackie's pink dress. | |||
|
| one of us |
SR, I currently live about 90 miles from Dallas, which direction were you? Also LHO's brother still lives here and is occasionally interviewed by the media. I went to lodge with some of his neighbors and by all accounts he is an honorable, decent and upright man. Just goes to show you the apple CAN fall far from the tree. Eterry Good luck and good shooting. In Memory of Officer Nik Green, #198, Oklahoma Highway Patrol Troop G...Murdered in the line of duty 12-26-03...A Good Man, A Good Officer, and A Good Friend gone too soon | |||
|
| One of Us |
There was evidently a Mauser 7.65 rifle with scope found in the same room Oswald was in, but you never hear what happened to it[or even hear about it] ,who owned it etc .There is alot of interesting Original material on you tube about the whole thing ,for those with an open mind. The Zapruder film was tampered with and modified before it was released to the public ,only now, years later with improved technology ,things show that they no longer ''ADD UP '' .The Security for Kennedy was not according protocol, the guards riding on the rear of the car were told to ''Get off '' ,you can see this in an original film footage and the guards put their arms out in incredulity and amazement ! you Cant tell me Oswald orchestrated that !the route used, the turns, Kennedys car further out front[than it should have been], the motorcycle escorts were held back was all against the accepted security procedures .All smacks of a set up .Nobody in this world wants to believe in conspiracies because it makes their brain hurt ,and puts then in an un nerving position , and if they do believe its true ??? well what can we do about it ?the whole system and media is geared against us ,we are called nuts and ostracized and its easier to choose popularity over intellectual honesty and go along with populist bullshit .so we just all go along with it ....and they keep getting away with it | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia