Well what do you think the best buy on a Military semi auto rifle is right now? not one of the $1000 ones, just some thing to shoot on the weekends?

Own a piece of history. Buy a Garand.

You can still get a field grade M1 for $495.

http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

As far as I'm concerned that makes it the best buy. You can get an SKS for less, but then you only have an SKS.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
Own a piece of history. Buy a Garand.

You can still get a field grade M1 for $495.

http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

As far as I'm concerned that makes it the best buy. You can get an SKS for less, but then you only have an SKS.

Instead of a slow, clumsy, expensive, American rifle!

How good can I expect a "field grade to shoot?"

It's been a while since I took mine to the range.

Now I have an excuse. I'll let you know what mine can do.

EXCLENT!!!! Thank You

I think acceptable spec for an issue Garand was something like 3-4 MOA. Some shoot much better. They all shoot better than the average SKS although every once in a while you get a hummer SKS too.

The most accurate military surplus rifles I owned were a Swedish Ljungman in 6.5 x 55 and an Egyptian Hakim (same tooling, different caliber) in 8MM.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I think acceptable spec for an issue Garand was something like 3-4 MOA. Some shoot much better. They all shoot better than the average SKS although every once in a while you get a hummer SKS too.

The M1 Garand was a pretty good arm for its' time (but that was way more than a half-a-century ago)! The standard issue Garand is nothing "special".

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I think acceptable spec for an issue Garand was something like 3-4 MOA. Some shoot much better. They all shoot better than the average SKS although every once in a while you get a hummer SKS too.

The M1 Garand was a pretty good arm for its' time (but that was way more than a half-a-century ago)! The standard issue Garand is nothing "special".

You have an alternative candidate? The man says he doesn't want to spend a grand. The top two in that category, to my mind, are the Garand and the SKS. And now that SKS rifles are approaching Garand prices, I'd rather have the Garand.

You can do a lot with a Garand, too, if later on you decide to put more money into it.

But if you know of something available for less than $1,000 that's really "special," let the rest of us in on it.

The man asked how well can a field grade Garand shoot and I answered him to the best of my knowledge. And as far as I can determine, an example of either rifle I mentioned can be had for under 1K when you can find one for sale.

I wasn't being judgmental, just sharing something before it runs out the other ear.

The M1 Garand sounds like a good one! and as to CMP, as my helper says " I are a member!" and I can drive to Port Clinton!
I have a lot of brass, and the dies!

Boy I wish the military used Magnums?


Thanks!

Welcome to the club.

Springfield or Harrington Richards???

WOW! I know this is off track but I just figured out how to put DaMan on ignore and all his silly posts disappeared . I feel great!

I have a 1943 Springfield Garand, matching year PAL bayo (cut down to 10.5"). Garands from this era were all re-arsenaled for Korea, and the numbers don't match. That said, the one I have looks new in the box. New wood, new parts, new finish.

Accuracy depends on the ammo you're shooting. Surplus military 30-06 ammo is not very accurate. I've pulled some apart. The bullet weights are inconsistent as are the charge weights. The guns are accurate, as accurate as you might expect with iron sights.

SKS is a much simpler mechanism, 10 rd, and milled steel receiver. But it's 7.62 X 39mm and the Garand is 30-06 Spfd. (Complicated mechanism, and requires 8 rd. clips.)

I'd opt for the Garand as an "investment." But the SKS is cheaper to shoot, easier to care for.

Hands down, and before someone goes whacko and bans them, get an AK-47.

Let's be charitable. I'm still waiting to hear about the best buy I never knew about 'til now.

I have owned both the Garand, and the SKS (Russian). Both were great guns to own, reload for, and shoot. The SKS would hold acceptable 10 shot groups at 300 yds using the stock sights. But, when push came to shove, I sold the SKS this winter. The 30/06 combined with the Garand is simply exceptional for my purposes.

When I bought the SKS, it was new, never fired, with a laminated stock. I cannot estimate how much ammo I ran through it, but the gun was in excellent condition, and it had doubled in value, which ain't bad.

Owned a 16" "para" chineese sks. Didn't shoot worth a shit. Lucky to get 4-6" @ 100yds. Wife bought me a Garand for our 1st ann. 18yrs ago. Paid $325.00 at Woolworth's. Have shot several deer w/ it. Will shoot 1 1/2-2" depending on ammunition used. Sold the chicom crap and bought more '06 ammo for the Garand. No comparison. Garand is better at long range shooting hands down. Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by DLH4570:
How good can I expect a "field grade to shoot?"

My rack grade Springfield Armory M1 with the original January 1943 barrel will "hold the black" on a SR-1 target at 100 yards. That's about a 4 inch group - with no bedding, a slightly loose gas cylinder, and my sloppy iron sight capability.

Considering how rough the barrel feels when I clean it, it shoots great!

Split the difference: buy an AR-15 chambered for the AK/SKS round...?

Then, you can get a 9mm upper for it and 32 rd mags. Then another lower so you can shoot both at the same time without having to switch uppers.
Then you can get another upper chambered in 223.
Then a BLK upper and a can and shoot subsonic 308 bullets. Then another lower, and then

Then...

There is no end.

Rich

Definately get the Garand.

They are a lot of fun to shoot.

Also buy a bunch of ammo from the CMP as well.

And a bunch of the 8 round clips.

Most, but not all, opinions of the SKS are from those who have owned the Chinese models. Yeah some them shoot good, but in my opinion the Yugo's out shoot them all. The Yugo is all milled and threaded in barrel, not stamped and pinned barrels. The SKS is cheaper to shoot, easier to handle, easier for small stature people (like kids) to shoot. The ammo is cheap whether you buy it or load it. The Garand as noted is a club...big and cumbersome. It has to be loaded to a certain pressure/powder range or you'll wreck the op rod. In other words take some off the shelf 180 grain soft points and you may bend that op rod. They are loud, they have more recoil, and more expensive to shoot. Yes they are cool rifles because that's what we went through WWII and Korea with.

It's not quite so easy to get that $495 Garand from the CMP program either. You have to qualify. Go to the CMP web site and see what the qualifications are. Then it's the luck of the draw what you get...some half decent field grade or some worn out sewer pipe. The SKS you can just buy. The SKS is still way cheaper then $495.

I'm with SmokinJ on this: If you want a cheap shooter that is cheap to shoot then get a non Chinese SKS.
Both Rumanian & Yugo versions are less than $300.

quote:

Originally posted by DLH4570:
Well what do you think the best buy on a Military semi auto rifle is right now? not one of the $1000 ones, just some thing to shoot on the weekends?

The best buy is when you find a guy that is going through a divorce and needs to get out of town.

Get yourself a French FSA MAS 49-56.
People start noticing the quality of these rifles (accuracy, reliability, ease of iuse and maintenance) and the prices are increasing.
The last batches have been destroyed, there will be no more.

Where do you get ammo for one?

At least I know where to buy feed for one of my Garands.

A French FSA MAS 49-56 might have the advantage of not having a Marine DI making me make unnatural advances toward it.

The bastard.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
Where do you get ammo for one?

At least I know where to buy feed for one of my Garands.

A French FSA MAS 49-56 might have the advantage of not having a Marine DI making me make unnatural advances toward it.

The bastard.

There's brass available for it and if not you can use the 6.5x55 Swede case and regular 30 caliber bullets are okay. I believe the groove diameter is suppose to be .307, but mine is closer to .308.

quote:

Originally posted by DLH4570:
EXCLENT!!!! Thank You

I haven't forgot. My back's almost back to normal after I took that spill in the last ice storm. It wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't catch the edge of one of the stairs.

Since you are after a shooter, not a collectable piece, check out the restored Garand that CMP offers. It will top out your budget at 1000.00, but the rifle has new barrel, new stock, re parkerized, test fired, properly assembled, and ones I have seen and shot are excellent rifles. (Lesser cost grades are available and are still bargains.) Even with issue ammo accuracy is quite good and proper reloads will bring the groups close to 1.5 moa.

No question you can purchase an SKS for less money and if you want to simply go to the range or field and "bang away" at targets in the 100yd range, the SKS will do that, but that's about all it will do. I see no pride of ownership in an SKS, but that's just me.

MFD,

WRONG...apparently you haven't seen what a good SKS can do in the hands of someone that can shoot it and feed it the proper ammunition.

If I were going to spend a $1000 or more it wouldn't be on a POS Garand it would be an AR 10.

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
Since you are after a shooter, not a collectable piece, check out the restored Garand that CMP offers.

I would say its the other way around. If you want a collectable piece, then get a Garand.

But, if you want a shooter, there are better choices for less money. And MUCH better choices (like the AR10 type rifles) for about the same amount of money.

I think Garands are beautiful and shoot a nice powerful cartidge (I regret selling the Garand I had), but they are heavy, clumsy, hard to scope, and they are difficult and expensive to accurize. Also the en-block clips are a very bad idea.

A Garand that will shoot 1.5 MOA will have been accuracy prepped. A rack grade will shoot about 3-4 MOA and no better (sometimes worse).

I agree with Joe on the SKS. They are inexpensive, light and handy, and can be fairly accurate (depending on the version you get).

PS - I just read Oddbod's post above. And I agree with him generally on avoiding the export type "pinned barreled" Chinese SKS. However, the early threaded barreled models made for the Chinese military are pretty accurate.

I have one of the Chinese military threaded barrel SKSs and it will shoot 2 MOA with good ammo.

I later bought an "export" pinned-barreled SKS ...... and it wouldn't shoot for sheet!

I have a Yugo SKS with the grenade launcher, which I took off, and it was unissued when I bought it. I load the Lee 155 grain cast bullet especially designed for the 7.62x39 over top 26.5 to 27 grains of 4895. With the iron sights I can do 2 inches with that gun at 100 yards off the bench. I dedicated scoped it and with the scope the best I've done with the same load is 5/8 inch groups. Now I've shot it with the scope at 300 yards and I'm not going to tell you the groups (and not it's not a ragged hole) but lets just say that cantaloupes would be in grave danger. Now that's cast bullets, not premium jacketed! So don't sell the SKS's short, they aren't el inaccurate AK's.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
I have one of the Chinese military threaded barrel SKSs and it will shoot 2 MOA with good ammo.

I later bought an "export" pinned-barreled SKS ...... and it wouldn't shoot for sheet!

I never realized that there were good ones and not so good ones.

I picked one up as an afterthought; it was only like 75 bucks. For less than $100 I should be satisfied with the accuracy.

I really do learn something everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
I have one of the Chinese military threaded barrel SKSs and it will shoot 2 MOA with good ammo.

I later bought an "export" pinned-barreled SKS ...... and it wouldn't shoot for sheet!

I never realized that there were good ones and not so good ones.

I picked one up as an afterthought; it was only like 75 bucks. For less than $100 I should be satisfied with the accuracy.

I really do learn something everyday.

On the Chinese models there were the screwed in barrels as DaMan noted and hey generally came with milled trigger guard. The pinned barrels may have stamped triggers guard, not sure the Chinese SKS I once had had the screwed in barrel and milled trigger guard. The Yugo I have now is a more robust rifle then any of them. Very well made. They don't have a chromed bore as the Yugo's didn't have any chrome mines and at the time they made those rifles they were under Communist control and the Russians wouldn't give them the chrome. No big deal as most the ammo for them today is non corrosive.

Well, actually I have observed the SKS being shot by skilled shooters in their attempt, emphasis on attempt, to produce even decent scores at XC matches. Shortest range is 200yds and bullseye dimensions are Xring at 3", 10 ring 7", 9 ring at 13". Bullsye/black is 13" in diameter. First ten shots off hand/standing w/ ten minute time allotment, next ten from sitting,rapid fire w/ 10 shots in 60 seconds and must change magazine. (We forego mag change requirement with the SKS's.) For rapid prone, range is at 300yds and final stage is 600yds prone slow fire. Some "give it a whirl" but the outcome is not good to say the least. Best scores I have ever seen at the 200yd line with SKS is something above 50 points and those were accomplished by Master and High Master shooters. Countless scores of more than 90 and even "clean" are routinely delivered by "service grade" Garands. Match prepared Garands will rival scores very near match bolt guns at all ranges. Might suggest you give your SKS's a chance to show what they can do at your local range which conducts XC matches. No benches, no bags, issue sights. You can use a scope, but results will not improve.
Quick method of seeing just what the rifle will do is take a 10" paper pie plate at 200yds and send ten rounds down range off hand and see how many hits you get. If you hit ten times, you have done very well indeed.

MFD, you picked a "game" that was designed to allow the Garand to be competitive.

As SLOOOOOW and artificially contrived as these matches are... the AR-Type platforms still rule.

"Match prepared Garands will rival scores very near match bolt guns at all ranges."

Aw, come on! Let's be truthful..... please!

I think I may give the pie plate a try. I've already stated my groups at 100 yards with cast bullets and saying that a cantaloupe is in grave danger at 300 yards I should be able to do this test successful. Looks like I need to reload some cast round. Maybe I'll give it a swing with my 7.62x39 but that wouldn't be fair, it shoots way way better then the SKS.

DaMan...the reason the Garand is the best military rifle in the world is because all the major countries still use it.....not!

Thought we were comparing the Garand with the SKS?? AR15 is entirely different rifle and indeed does rule in XC matches these days. As for slow, give it a try with the SKS and the "game" as you mention was developed long before the Garand came on the scene. Try it with an O3. Again, suggest you give such a match a try or just observe and see the groups the Garand's deliver. You will be impressed.
Better still, try it with your SKS and your impression will even be greater!!

As for the "test" of firing the SKS at 200yds off hand/standing, with lead or whatever bullets, you will have a good time in doing it.
That 10" pie plate off hand is not an easy target in whatever rifle you are using at 200yds, and consider each hit as score of 10 and let us know your score. Hope you do well and it is a good test of shooter and rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
Again, suggest you give such a match a try or just observe and see the groups the Garand's deliver. You will be impressed.

No, I wouldn't be. I used to shoot High Power Rifle competition on a military team years ago. The Garand was a dinosaur back then.

Try your Garand in some practical rifle competition and tell me how you do!

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
Thought we were comparing the Garand with the SKS?? AR15 is entirely different rifle and indeed does rule in XC matches these days. As for slow, give it a try with the SKS and the "game" as you mention was developed long before the Garand came on the scene. Try it with an O3. Again, suggest you give such a match a try or just observe and see the groups the Garand's deliver. You will be impressed.
Better still, try it with your SKS and your impression will even be greater!!

As for the "test" of firing the SKS at 200yds off hand/standing, with lead or whatever bullets, you will have a good time in doing it.
That 10" pie plate off hand is not an easy target in whatever rifle you are using at 200yds, and consider each hit as score of 10 and let us know your score. Hope you do well and it is a good test of shooter and rifle.

MFD,

You brought up match Garands,how they rival bolt guns. That's why DaMan brought up the AR's.