im sure the green barets, navy seals, para rescue and the rest of the armed forces of these u.s. would be glad to hear that and there isnt enough select units in the toal number in an army to meet courage in the total number in a corp. i just dont know why we waste our time and money on the rest of the services im sure if we sent a couple thousand marines to anzio or the beaches of normandy we could have avoided all that carnage. get real the other services have as many if not more heroes as the marines it just there acts of heroism are not publicly exploited as done by the marines. like i said in an earlier thread as soon as the army awarded a medal of honor to a living recipient the marines had a recipient in waiting. they seem to need one in every insurrection to keep the corps image in tact. great p.r.

You missed the point entirely. No one -- especially not me -- is taking anything away from anyone who serves, has served, no matter the branch, the unit, etc. I have the utmost respect for all who serve. All services have had their share of real heroes. But we are talking about units now and the Marines often get the heavier lifting. The Marine Corps is all about infantry and the rest is support. In that capacity, they excel, and they do quite well. Can you deny that? Are you at all familiar with Tarawa? For Chosin Reservoir, Iwo Jima, Belleau Wood, Hue City (during Tet), Fallujah, Khe Sanh, etc., the PR is deserved.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
As a former Marine, I can't say that I don't feel like squids are cousins to us jarheads. That said, we do need a ride into battle.....

So am I correct in taking it that you have no respect for the Navy Corpsmen that fight and often die beside the Marines and have fought beside you in evey major battle in the last couple of centuries?

How about the Navy Chaplins that wade ashore unarmed with you to try and give you comfort and solice in your time of need?

Or the Navy Beachmasters that make sure all the supplies you need are on the beach ready to go even when the bullets are flying.

Or how about the seabees that go ashore at the earliest moment to build fortifications etc...

Or the navy Coxswains that brave bullets and bombs to take you to the beach and to take your wounded to safety?

What Marines often fail to remember is that they are part of the Dept of the Navy. Its not the other way around and on any aphibious landing, those Marines ultimately answer to a Navy Admiral and not a Marine General. Think about that for a minute.

quote:

Originally posted by usps:
im sure the green barets, navy seals, para rescue and the rest of the armed forces of these u.s. would be glad to hear that and there isnt enough select units in the toal number in an army to meet courage in the total number in a corp. i just dont know why we waste our time and money on the rest of the services im sure if we sent a couple thousand marines to anzio or the beaches of normandy we could have avoided all that carnage. get real the other services have as many if not more heroes as the marines it just there acts of heroism are not publicly exploited as done by the marines. like i said in an earlier thread as soon as the army awarded a medal of honor to a living recipient the marines had a recipient in waiting. they seem to need one in every insurrection to keep the corps image in tact. great p.r.

You are missing the point. Of course the other branches have had great heroes and units, the 101 Airbourne come to mind. The point is that the entire Marine Corps is this way not just certain units

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
As a former Marine, I can't say that I don't feel like squids are cousins to us jarheads. That said, we do need a ride into battle.....

So am I correct in taking it that you have no respect for the Navy Corpsmen that fight and often die beside the Marines and have fought beside you in evey major battle in the last couple of centuries?

How about the Navy Chaplins that wade ashore unarmed with you to try and give you comfort and solice in your time of need?

Or the Navy Beachmasters that make sure all the supplies you need are on the beach ready to go even when the bullets are flying.

Or how about the seabees that go ashore at the earliest moment to build fortifications etc...

Or the navy Coxswains that brave bullets and bombs to take you to the beach and to take your wounded to safety?

What Marines often fail to remember is that they are part of the Dept of the Navy. Its not the other way around and on any aphibious landing, those Marines ultimately answer to a Navy Admiral and not a Marine General. Think about that for a minute.

As a former grunt, I have more respect for Corpsmen (corpsemen accoring to the current CIC), than perhaps most Navy personnel do. That said, you are sounding thin-skinned. I said that in jest, and if you go back to the post before it, you will see that I was responding to CFS's humorous retort. That was a joke and absolutely no reason to get defensive.

i will end my participation in this post by simply saying the marines owe the same respect and recognition to the other services that they demand and want from themselves. i apoligise if i sounded bitter or had an agender[im not and dont] i am decorated and have a p.h. but i see no sense in living the past. i find it offensive that whether at the v.a. hospital or the mall i run into some marine wearing some sort of hat, shirt or jacket advertising his undying love of the corp and the hat more than likely displaying his medals and awards. its over get over it. my children would have me locked up if i started wearing a.f. jackets etc. and had a big falcon tatooed on my arms and chest. my best regards

usps -- pride is not a sin.....

I for one appreciate your service to our great nation. No offense has been taken.

quote:

Originally posted by usps:
i will end my participation in this post by simply saying the marines owe the same respect and recognition to the other services that they demand and want from themselves. i apoligise if i sounded bitter or had an agender[im not and dont] i am decorated and have a p.h. but i see no sense in living the past. i find it offensive that whether at the v.a. hospital or the mall i run into some marine wearing some sort of hat, shirt or jacket advertising his undying love of the corp and the hat more than likely displaying his medals and awards. its over get over it. my children would have me locked up if i started wearing a.f. jackets etc. and had a big falcon tatooed on my arms and chest. my best regards

I find it offensive that you find it offensive for a Marine to wear his colors and to express the love of the Corps. That is no different that a college grad wearing his class ring, nothing to be ashamed of and is something to be proud of.

Are you not proud that you served in the Air Force?

Many do not understand that Guadalcanal constituted about 1/3 of the Pacific War.

It was not pretty for either side. The Japanese chronically underestimated the size of the US ground force on the island and fed in troops in insufficient numbers to be chewed up.

The Japanese lost large numbers of planes, pilots, ground troops, sailors and ships. So did the US.
But the Japanese lost the offensive. And never regained it.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
As a former Marine, I can't say that I don't feel like squids are cousins to us jarheads. That said, we do need a ride into battle.....

So am I correct in taking it that you have no respect for the Navy Corpsmen that fight and often die beside the Marines and have fought beside you in evey major battle in the last couple of centuries?

How about the Navy Chaplins that wade ashore unarmed with you to try and give you comfort and solice in your time of need?

Or the Navy Beachmasters that make sure all the supplies you need are on the beach ready to go even when the bullets are flying.

Or how about the seabees that go ashore at the earliest moment to build fortifications etc...

Or the navy Coxswains that brave bullets and bombs to take you to the beach and to take your wounded to safety?

What Marines often fail to remember is that they are part of the Dept of the Navy. Its not the other way around and on any aphibious landing, those Marines ultimately answer to a Navy Admiral and not a Marine General. Think about that for a minute.

As a former grunt, I have more respect for Corpsmen (corpsemen accoring to the current CIC), than perhaps most Navy personnel do. That said, you are sounding thin-skinned. I said that in jest, and if you go back to the post before it, you will see that I was responding to CFS's humorous retort. That was a joke and absolutely no reason to get defensive.

Not getting defensive and Im a long way from thin skinned. I've been in the Navy for 22 years and have served on several gators. That means Ive sailed a lot of miles on ships full of jarheads. I also know that a lot of jarheads are very disrespectful to the very sailors they depend on for everything from food to medical care to communications services.

That said I, currently with Riverine Squadron 1 and the brown water navy is a lot closer to the corps than a lot of jarheads themselves are.

And I know that a lot of sailors are disrespectful of jarheads. So what. Some folks are incapable of opening their eyes and it's not something that I am able to affect.

Having said that, I'm a Shellback if that's any consolation!

It's all good, Mac!

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
CFS,

Guadalcanal is one of my favorite topics and also possibly the most misunderstood battle of the Pacific Theater.

I wish you would cite the source(s) you quote from. That is always helpful.

As to what happened there, it is all a matter of record. Frankly, the U.S. Navy deserted the U.S.M.C. and failed to complete their mission to "land the landing force". When the Navy ran off they had units of Marines still aboard ship, along with vast amounts of fire (ammunition) for all Marine weapons from handgun to cannon. Large quantities of food were also still aboard ship, which resulted in Marines on the 'Canal subsisting eventually on one cup of maggot infested Japanese rice per day. I could go on, but you get the idea.

While it is true that the U.S. Navy eventually suffered more casualties than the Marine Corps over the course of the battle, 8/42 thru 11/42 (some say 2/43 was the real end date, but all Marines were off island by then), I would remind sailors that those of their service did not suffer the privations at sea of the Marines on land. They had hot chow and warm racks daily on their ships, unless actively engaged.

The only reason the U.S. won at Guadalcanal was due to the intestinal fortitude of the 1st Marine Division, aided by Marine, Navy and Army aviators. Eventually, two U.S. Navy admirals were relieved/transferred primarily as a result of the faulty landing on Guadalcanal.

Those are the facts, and they aren't pretty for the U.S. Navy.

BTW, in recent years the official records of the IJN and IJA have finally been released and this information has greatly expanded the knowledge base of information related to the Guadalcanal campaign, on land, in the air and at sea.

"I like you Navy guys. Every time the Marines have to go somewhere to fight, you guys take us there on your boats."

SEMPER FI
And I still will buy a beer for any Corpsman or Seabee I meet, and the occasional Navy F-4 Phantom jock.

My Dad was a Gunny there and unfortunately carried his demons into our childhood. I don't think we should forget the 164th Inf. Div. of the US Army National Guard from North Dakota that held on the line also. Chesty paid them a great compliment when he said "they were almost as good as Marines". Thanks...Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Bar fighting is for amateurs! We're not all internet warriors.

I've moved up to the professional division, as now I own the place. It very, very rarely happens I have to play the role of bouncer as my place is very upscale, in an upscale part of town. But in an entertaining part of town that attracts a lot of kids who sometimes wander into my place already over-exuberant to the point I have to encourage to move on as they detract from the atmosphere we try to maintain for our patrons.

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Well, for the most part because Navy coxswains have to go back, pick up another load of you guys, and hit the beach again. And again. And again.

But some do stick around. Beachmaster units, for one. Then there are a few other ashore Navy types belonging to what they used to call, when I was assigned to one such command, Naval Coastal Warfare. All such commands have since, I believe, been rolled up into what they're now calling the Maritime Expeditionary Security Force.

quote:

Semper Fi and Anchors away, my friend!

Back at you, my friend!

I have the utmost respect for the Marines. I just want to be on a boat. (Warning, do not click on the link if you're offended by profanity and can't stand hip-hop. But if you do, check out that riverine warfare craft turning in just about her own length at full speed at the 2 min. mark.)

I like 'em all, the big and the small. I don't know about you, but I think there's something dead sexy about something haze grey running flat out with a bone in her teeth.





Anyway, I always recognized when I was assigned to the gator navy or Naval Coastal Warfare that we were there to support you guys. I was happy to do it.

As far as service rivalry goes, I never experienced any real disrespect from the Marines, and I'd never disrespect a Marine. When I say we're "cousins," it's because of the inbreeding between the two services. I was commissioned because a Marine DI said I was acceptable, and nearly all the schools I went through were Navy-Marine Corps schools. At SERE when we went through the evasion part of the course, we were paired up with another student. My team mate was a Recon Marine.

Then there's this.



I'm dating myself, but I'm old enough to remember who crewed this secondary battleship battery.

How could I not respect and like Marines? I've been on liberty with plenty of them. And I worked with this guy on the Belleau Wood.



An impressive guy, and nobody worked out harder than him in the gym.

I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

Besides CFS, the ice cream will start to melt and there is more hot water for the showers when the Jarheads are on the beach.

Chief MAC

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

Besides CFS, the ice cream will start to melt and there is more hot water for the showers when the Jarheads are on the beach.

Chief MAC

Showers? On ship? Have you ever ventured into the berthing area on a troop transport?? I'm not talking about the luxury hotel accomodations y'all are used to, but real live berthing areas where the racks are stacked five high?? Showers? Are there showers on ship??

Mac, did you wear a beard?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

Besides CFS, the ice cream will start to melt and there is more hot water for the showers when the Jarheads are on the beach.

Chief MAC

Showers? On ship? Have you ever ventured into the berthing area on a troop transport?? I'm not talking about the luxury hotel accomodations y'all are used to, but real live berthing areas where the racks are stacked five high?? Showers? Are there showers on ship??

Mac, did you wear a beard?

Hell, Im still showing up for morning quarters. In other words, Im still on active duty. They quit wearing beards very early in my career long before I made Chief.

And to your other question, Yes I've been in troop berthing. Troop transports went out in the Koren War. Somehow I doubt you're that old. In the new ships, the troops actually live better that the crew. And they don"t have to stand any watches either. Which is good because that would cut into the time the spend standing around looking for chow or just getting in the sailors way!

Well Mac, I've been out 25 years so I am not Korean war old. That said, what I meant by "troop transport" is a ship that can accommodate and lauch AMTRACS. My first deployment was aboard the USS Schenectady -- have you had the good fortune of spending any time aboard an LST (they rock in port!)? Luxury berthing? Are you kidding? The quarters were a bit on the "lean" side.......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Well Mac, I've been out 25 years so I am not Korean war old. That said, what I meant by "troop transport" is a ship that can accommodate and lauch AMTRACS. My first deployment was aboard the USS Schenectady -- have you had the good fortune of spending any time aboard an LST (they rock in port!)? Luxury berthing? Are you kidding? The quarters were a bit on the "lean" side.......

Yeah, Ove been on an LST. The USS Spartanburg County (LST-1192). I also did 3 1/2 years on the USS Nashville (LPD-13). I've logged a lot of sea miles dragging Uncle Sam's Misguided Children from one place to another.

I did 4 years on the USS Pyro (AE-24), an old ammo ship built in 1953. That ship was rough. Both the gators I was on were Cadillacs compared to the Pyro.

Check your PMs, Mac.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
As a former Marine, I can't say that I don't feel like squids are cousins to us jarheads. That said, we do need a ride into battle.....

I always thought, 'once a marine, always a marine.'

Most definietly, but no longer active duty -- still a jarhead, but not getting paid! We take exception to those who use the term "ex-Marine."

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

Besides CFS, the ice cream will start to melt and there is more hot water for the showers when the Jarheads are on the beach.

Chief MAC

Mmm, ice cream. The real stuff, not the auto-dog we dish out when the marines are embarked.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I remember when Chiefs still wore beards -- guess I am dating myself as well! LOL!

I would worry profusely if we didn't take shots at each other -- something would seriously be amiss!

And in that spirit:

quote:

Yeah, drop us off and pick us no matter how many folks are shooting at us. Why not stick around?

Because we want to get back to the boat for the fine dining. Once we get the Marines off the boat we start serving the steak and lobster.

You don't expect us to waste this stuff on Marines, do you?

Besides CFS, the ice cream will start to melt and there is more hot water for the showers when the Jarheads are on the beach.

Chief MAC

Showers? On ship? Have you ever ventured into the berthing area on a troop transport?? I'm not talking about the luxury hotel accomodations y'all are used to, but real live berthing areas where the racks are stacked five high?? Showers? Are there showers on ship??

Mac, did you wear a beard?

Just another argument for an all-nuclear force.

With nuclear powerplants you'll have more hot water than you can use.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

Just another argument for an all-nuclear force.

With nuclear powerplants you'll have more hot water than you can use.

Perhaps this doesn't apply nowadays but 40+ years ago, the first priority of Enterprise (or any carrier for that matter) was to launch aircraft. Steam for the 4 catapults took priority over showering comfort (or showering at all for that matter). That cannot be done with seawater. It's the desalination plant's ability to keep up with demand that's the limiting factor in whether or not sailors get ANY temperature liquid water to cleanse with.

I believe they kept a tank of 'galley slop' left over from the King Neptune festivities for the security contingent (marines) to bathe with.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

Just another argument for an all-nuclear force.

With nuclear powerplants you'll have more hot water than you can use.

Perhaps this doesn't apply nowadays but 40+ years ago, the first priority of Enterprise (or any carrier for that matter) was to launch aircraft. Steam for the 4 catapults took priority over showering comfort (or showering at all for that matter). That cannot be done with seawater. It's the desalination plant's ability to keep up with demand that's the limiting factor in whether or not sailors get ANY temperature liquid water to cleanse with.

I believe they kept a tank of 'galley slop' left over from the King Neptune festivities for the security contingent (marines) to bathe with.

Nice try, Dave. Yup, been through the slop shoot as did the XO of the ship I crossed the equator on. Are you a Shellback, Dave?

Back at ya.....

No. Our port call to Singapore got canceled. Instead we spent 62 days on line.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Most definietly, but no longer active duty -- still a jarhead, but not getting paid! We take exception to those who use the term "ex-Marine."

There's no such thing as an "ex-Marine".

Semper Fi!

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Most definietly, but no longer active duty -- still a jarhead, but not getting paid! We take exception to those who use the term "ex-Marine."

There's no such thing as an "ex-Marine".

Semper Fi!

Amen to that, Craigster!