Not to get picky but there is Zero comparison between NZ and AK. Not the people, food, guides, land mass, climate, culture, game laws, animal density or danger.

Hunting/guiding the two would be similar to hunting on the moon and then mars.

Ski+3
Whitefish, MT

Absolutely agree.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
A long time ago I guided on "The Rock" for brown bear just out of school for a few years and was pretty good at it running 85%.I worked for an uncle off his boat. I would say 95% of all outfitters could not care less about client except getting paid,there are a few very few that are the exception.

Doc, when was this ? I know that when the USFWS , who manage the refuges on Kodiak and all over the state, began there exclusive guide concessions they rank the guides and those with high success rate and client satisfaction get the areas.

Not that there are not a few shysters and con men still in the business , but hunters who check their references carefully or go with guides known to them or their friends usually have a 95% chance of a good hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
A friend of mine returned from a NZ hunt earlier this year and he had a blast.

He got some really nice trophies. The hunts were physically challenging and all his trophies were taken under fair chase scenarios.

He highly recommended NZ.

BH63

Sorry was meaning the stories Ive ben told from kiwis who have hunted alaska and canada.
There are issues with Kiwi guides too, but they are much different. In NZ they are more ethic based concerns that the paying hunter might not notice or know about.

as a chief guide i had new zealander guides and i did not find them different than others.

ethic is really a personal thing and should not be attached to a nationality ...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
A long time ago I guided on "The Rock" for brown bear just out of school for a few years and was pretty good at it running 85%.I worked for an uncle off his boat. I would say 95% of all outfitters could not care less about client except getting paid,there are a few very few that are the exception.

Doc, when was this ? I know that when the USFWS , who manage the refuges on Kodiak and all over the state, began there exclusive guide concessions they rank the guides and those with high success rate and client satisfaction get the areas.

Not that there are not a few shysters and con men still in the business , but hunters who check their references carefully or go with guides known to them or their friends usually have a 95% chance of a good hunt.

Phil nothing personal no finger pointing, those whom follow the biz know of your reputation. I am in my 60's my guiding was a long time ago fresh from the school yard. My observation as to outfitters as a rule worldwide more interested in a $ comes after using them for nearly 50 years

Doc, having been doing this for over 40 years and knowing a high percentage of Alaskan guides, as well as hunting all over the globe , I will stick by my my contention that the majority of guides, like the majority of any profession, are good, honest, hard working people.

Constant bad luck seem to follow those who believe the wild tales and promises told them the shysters, which can be found in every profession, and don't verify them by checking references .

And another item that has always struck me as unusual is that after watching and listening to well known shysters telling their extraordinarily unbelievable stories to potential victims at sporting shows is that I think some folks must like to be lied too.

Phil,
I agree with you. In my two recent train wrecks, I checked references, both had been in their areas for 20+ years. The Alaska mess was close to you and you know the outfitter very well.

I never look for a guarantee other than skilled guides in a good, verified area. Shooting and perseverance is up to me.

Dogcat, unfortunately that doesn't surprise me. He beat me out when they were reassigning the areas as the Feds scored him higher because he said he would have less impact on the areas because he put his camps in areas with low bear density !
Maybe he really does

quote:

he put his camps in areas with low bear density !Maybe he really does

Doesn't sound like a winning idea for bear hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Doc, having been doing this for over 40 years and knowing a high percentage of Alaskan guides, as well as hunting all over the globe , I will stick by my my contention that the majority of guides, like the majority of any profession, are good, honest, hard working people.

Constant bad luck seem to follow those who believe the wild tales and promises told them the shysters, which can be found in every profession, and don't verify them by checking references .

And another item that has always struck me as unusual is that after watching and listening to well known shysters telling their extraordinarily unbelievable stories to potential victims at sporting shows is that I think some folks must like to be lied too.

Since there's no "like" button I had to quote this. I agree with every word you said and would hunt with you in a heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Doc,.............

Constant bad luck seem to follow those who believe the wild tales and promises told them the shysters, which can be found in every profession, and don't verify them by checking references .

And another item that has always struck me as unusual is that after watching and listening to well known shysters telling their extraordinarily unbelievable stories to potential victims at sporting shows is that I think some folks must like to be lied too.

Phil: Not to drag this along but I've also hunted most of the world, er; at least the parts that interested me NA and Africa, having found success in most hunts based on game seen and taken as well as getting what I paid for in way of the outfitters responsibility. But that success does not lead me to change my opinion of the general outfitting operators...most are in it for the buck,i.e. take a caribou outfitter that places hunters in a camp that the migration has already passed or an elk outfitter that knows darn well the animals have not moved down from the high country due to mild weather but still puts hunters & guide in a low land camp because he has all his higher camps filled...these are the low lifes of the industrsy too strapped for cash to reschedule a hunt rather than loose the $$$. Does it happen yes you know it does.

I'm not so sure people guide for money as a primary motivation. In my experience at least it's for the love of doing what they do. More than a few guides have regular jobs in the off season and leave that better pay to guide. For what they do guides are about the lowest payed people on the planet!

I think what sometimes happens is they get into a desperate situation due to lack of game, the weather or various other reasons and instead of being upfront about it try to save their butts by resorting to questionable tactics. Of course there are like any business some bad apples that will do whatever it takes just to keep going. Those are the ones to avoid through careful investigation prior to booking a hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I'm not so sure people guide for money as a primary motivation. In my experience at least it's for the love of doing what they do. More than a few guides have regular jobs in the off season and leave that better pay to guide. For what they do guides are about the lowest payed people on the planet!

I think what sometimes happens is they get into a desperate situation due to lack of game, the weather or various other reasons and instead of being upfront about it try to save their butts by resorting to questionable tactics. Of course there are like any business some bad apples that will do whatever it takes just to keep going. Those are the ones to avoid through careful investigation prior to booking a hunt.

I used to elk hunt with an outfit in the Selway; fantastic hunting experience (horses, canvas tents, the whole nine yards). The guide I most often hunted with had guided for another outfitter who got his clients up at 3 am, didn't get back until dark, and never shot any elk. I asked how he booked his customers. His answer: "He goes to shows and books guys who fall for his false promises - no one books twice." He got sick and tired of the BS and quit guided for that crook.

Sadly, the outfitter with whom I hunted went out of business when some moron shot a deer without a tag and they didn't turn him in; lost his guiding rights. They were always on the up and up when I hunted with them.