In view of the comments made on the thread concerning the helicopter crash in the N.W.T., I thought it appropriate to start a different thread about the use of helicopters, fixed wing planes and foreign hunting. These are are highly relevant to contemporary Canadian hunting and our future as both hunters and owners of the wildlife resources so eagerly sought after by foreign interests.

My position is very simple, I am a native Canadian, a hardline ultra-nationalist and a strong "nativist". I am a "pan-Canadian" in that I believe in "Canada First" and provincial concerns second, but, in local control and management of resources, so, my position is pretty obvious...and getting harder and more exclusive as foreign pressures to take our resources increase.

I see foreign hunting and angling here as largely an intrusion by those who have NO rights here, are only concerned with getting what they want and often treat we Canadians in a condescending and arrogant manner. This also happens with foreigners on "whale watching" and "grizzly watching" excursions and many of the foreign "owners" of such businesses actively lobby governments to restrict OUR access to OUR resources so that they can profit by them.

I want a TOTAL BAN on ANY helicopter use for anything connected with hunting, except rescue of an injured person(s). I want a TOTAL BAN on aerial "spotting" of game and this would be quite easy to enforce, as it should be.

It is also time to ban foreign hunting and angling here in BC and also the ROC. The supposed benefits to we who OWN the resources are minimal and the negative impacts on our wildlife, communities and culture as well as sovereignity are huge...and absolutely beyond sustainability or what is acceptable to a free and sovereign people.

One can quibble about this, however, the stark facts reveal a disgusting sellout of BC resources to foreigners and this HAS made it far more difficult for we citizens to harvest our natural bounty in our traditional ways. So, it is time to stop foreign trophy collecting here before we lose all of what hunting opportunities we have left.

Foreigners don't like it, well, tough shit, Canada for Canadians, period.

I understand your hard line, and am sympathetic with it to a degree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are aircraft used for any purpose other than transporting hunters to an area that would otherwise require a long or impossible land trek?

I am not aware of it being lawful to shoot game from aircraft(except for pest control, research, etc.), nor am I aware of it being legal to spot game and then land your aircraft and shoot it. Please clarify these issues.

Mother taught me to keep my lips sealed if I had nothing nice or productive to say, so Dewey just get by with having to "read my lips". Enjoy.

Norton, while regulations in B.C. state that aircraft may not be used for certain purposes; we have a "time" limit on hunting after flying, much like Alaska's, for example, the current practice is for GOs to fly "spotting missions" and then radio the location of "trophies" to the "assistant guides" waiting on the ground with the clients.

So, the result of this is MUCH higher "kill ratios" for the guided foreign hunters than is the case with backpacking or even horsehunting resident hunters, i.e, about 200+ Stone's rams in recent years to 100 kills by BCers. American states, btw, seem to limit THEIR "non-res." tags to about 10% of their total kill.

So, since I cannot even hunt in many US jurisdictions for THEIR game, WHY should we allow them to hunt OURS? However, this is only one aspect of the overall problem matrix here.

The whole point of BC hunting, in many regions IS that it is ...a long or impossible land trek...; it is HUNTING, not having some geriatric flatlander slaughter Stone's Sheep here by the use of various "high tech" implements...and then strut his stuff on forums as though he were anything other than a triggerpuller with a fat wallet. Some hunters.

The access difficulties PROTECT the wildlife from a level of "harvest" that is NOT sustainable or culturally acceptable to traditional BCers, like me. When I am backpacking in northern BC, alone, I do NOT want to see a Supercub fly over, circling above each alpine bowl and even "buzzing" resident hunters, as has happened to a good partner of mine. This detracts from MY wilderness experience and I will not accept it.

So, the issue is simple. IF, we remove the SOURCE of the inflated costs for "hunts" of this type, i.e, the fat, old pharts who cannot climb or pack loads and whose bux subsidize the GOs and their attempts to restrict and even eliminate resident hunting here, then, we eliminate the entire problem. The GOs recently signed an "allocation" agreement with the gov't. and the BC Wildlife Federation and aboriginal groups and STILL are using the money they extort from foreign hunters to try to get much more than was agreed to, by all concerned.

This means that a hunter from, for example, Texas, comes here, pays a "Non-resident hunting preservation fee" to the GO and this money is used to limit the rights of people like me. It is a growing concern here and an increasing number of BC people are becoming totally opposed to any hunting, except that of we citizens.

So, I think that the only solution is to end this travesty and offensive remarks on a thread of this nature, by persons who have received the privilege of hunting in Canada's wildernes simply harden my resolve in this respect. We had an election recently that set us back in conservation terms, quite severely, but, more and more of us are getting involved and we WILL have OUR WAY in OUR country, no matter what.

copied from the other thread;


You guys come in the middle of the story; dewey and I had much the same conversation last year,in fact HE has had this conversation on several different boards every year for the last few years.Probably more than I am not aware of.

IIRC,he was asked to leave one of the boards,or decided to stop posting there , because so many people were tired of his bullshit.

I left 24Hr. Campfire due to the controversy surrounding the repeated convictions for various BC Wildlife Act violations by the notorious American, Bryan Martin, who "owned" a GO concession in northern BC. A couple of friends of this pos, actually threatened me and since I had made my point, I decided to leave a board which, IMO, had declined very much and others did exactly as I chose to.

I certainly DO post on and advocate for better Canadian conservation on a variety of issues. This is not only my right, but, it is my duty, and my years of working in resource management here have given me both some insight into and also a motivation to do what I can to save Canadian wilderness, wildlife, culture and sovereignity from ANY threats; whether British-Euro. tourists who presume to demand a stop to Grizzly hunting here or loudmouths from the USA who apparently suffer from the delusion that they have some "right" to hunt here.

The attempts to denigate me, personally, simply indicate just how foolish, weak and desperate the types who make them really are; however, they do assist me in that other Canadians see just how these "sportsmen" really behave when they think that their "rights" to Canadian resources are threatened.......

Simpletons always bellow and seldom make sense.

I have no intention of hunting in your "precious province".I just tire of your whining.
If I remember correctly ,and I do,you made the mistake last year of including the other Canadian provinces in with all the other foreigners,and got spanked down for your efforts,by some of your fellow Canadians.So continue to spout venom and froth at the mouth,Dewey.You said it best yourself.


"Simpletons always bellow and seldom make sense."

No, you phoney little poser, I did NOT refer to other Canadians as anything except Canadians.

I certainly WILL continue to post on and advocate for appropriate conservation measures here and we will win.

If I have to go back farther in your list of posts to expose your BS for what it is ,I will,but I think these two say quite a bit by themselves.I could have copied dozens of posts from your fellow canadians who dont agree with your rants,but all anyone here has to do is look at your list of posts to see for themselves .

Posted 08 July 2008 03:29
My grandfather, who came to BC from Milwaukee, USA in 1893 WAS a "brewmaster"and returned there in 1898 to take his final training and then came back to BC.



Posted 14 July 2008 06:24
Actually, I did not have a government career, but, that is not important.

Keep it up, it gives me further opportunities to post the truth about this entire situation.

To clarify, ONE of my GFs, WAS born in Milwaukee as I said, so what, he was NOT the first of my ancestors to pioneer here in B.C. and my other grandfather, was born August 06, 1885, in Deloro, Ont. where HIS ancestors and mine, settled after serving in the British Army on "The Plains of Abraham", again, so what?

I do not have and have never claimed to have a "career" in government service, I DID work for a few government agencies, but, do not consider this a career, as I have posted.

The ironic aspect of all of your bullschitt is that YOU state that you do not want to hunt here, so, what is your motivation for trying to tell me and others like me, that we cannot restrict hunting here?

It seems to me, that your REAL motive is that of a schittdisturber who lacks the success in life to do anything other than deliberately attempt to interfere in decisions that are none of your affair....and, thereby, just make me that much more determined to keep YOUR kind out of B.C.

You really DO have some serious "issues", eh...maybe your local "outpatients psych." could help?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
so, what is your motivation for trying to tell me and others like me, that we cannot restrict hunting here? when have I ever said that?I dont object to the content of your argument,just the method you choose to present it.

You really DO have some serious "issues", eh...maybe your local "outpatients psych." could help?

Are you SURE your not a drinking man,Dewey?
For anyone interested,our last discourse on this topic is on page 13 of deweys past posts,in a thread titled," interesting email recieved".It plays out much the same as this one,with dewey insulting anyone who doesnt agree with him,which is just about everyone,fellow canadians and BC residents included.And,for the record,I didnt hunt or fish anywhere but minnesota in the last year.So,Im not out to steal "YOUR" game,or as noted the last time,it is actually THE CROWNS GAME to sell to whoever they see fit.

Are you actually as ignorant as you seem, or, merely bored and playing a rather neurotic little game on a Saturday morning?

First, I very seldom imbibe and then only a couple of beers; I am too busy to waste time on drinking and feel sorry for those afflicted with dipsomania or any other psychological impairment, even you.

The CROWN in Canada DOES NOT OWN anything; it is owned BY the people of Canada who are represented by the Crown in Right of the Dominion of Canada. The current "neo-con" B.C. government IS trying to introduce legislation that WILL create government "ownership" of Crown lands, etc., but, this is unpopular and not likely to become a law that anyone will conform to.

So, again, you know nothing about this situation and are the sort of Yankee that is the cause of most "animus" directed at your kind here.

The BC government is slowly responding to our concerns in that they substantially reduced the "quotas" for foreign hunters, ALL of them, not only Americans, recently. But, many GOs find ways to sneak around these regs. and thus we need to eliminate the entire GO involvement and save BC for BCers and other Canucks.

Good for you, staying home and hunting in Minnesota, seems like you are learning from my posts, afterall!!! Good boy, keep it up and continue to think that you are really "Paul Bunyan"!

actually,in my world,its saturday.

That is the FIRST attempted correction to my factual posts that you have EVER made that is right. Sorry, doing too much at once, here.

But, you ARE still full of typical Yankee arrogance and bullschitt.

why dont you point out to me,as stupid as I am,one of your major news outlets that is calling for a moratorium on foreigner hunting and fishing?I havent been able to find one on my own.

Posted 02 November 2008 23:45
I would have thought that my posts were very clear as to my being a native British Columbian, from a family that has lived here for almost 140 yrs. We also came to Canada in the early 17thC. and my nationalism and nativism are a consequence of this, as one would expect.




Posted 15 August 2009 23:32

To clarify, ONE of my GFs, WAS born in Milwaukee as I said, so what, he was NOT the first of my ancestors to pioneer here in B.C. and my other grandfather, was born August 06, 1885, in Deloro, Ont . where HIS ancestors and mine, settled after serving in the British

Posted 08 July 2008 03:29
My grandfather, who came to BC from Milwaukee, USA in 1893 WAS a "brewmaster"and returned there in 1898 to take his final training and then came back to BC.


whos full of shit and arrogance?

As I have oftimes posted, "The Vancouver Sun" frequently runs feature pieces on this topic and so does "Global TV", the largest TV outlet here. The CBC also airs various broadcasts on different aspects of environmental concern, including hunting; you may have heard of Dr. David Suzuki and his long-running programme, "The Nature of Things", for example.

I am preparing another piece for publication and it will be VERY "hardline" in demanding an IMMEDIATE cessation of ALL American hunting/angling here. This is an on-going campaign and it is taking time, but, it is also gathering social momentum much faster than I expected...

BTW, what is your obsession with my family; this seems a bit odd, to me. I posted some of the relevant details and, as it happens, SIX generations of my various family members have lived in BC and my mother's side first came to Canada with Sir William Alexander, but, so what?

Here in BC, especially when I grew up, a comment about a guy's family would result in a pretty serious problem, something I doubt you want to experience.

now you know how it feels to have someone insult you all day on the internet.

Well, your kind of American is known worldwide for having a big mouth and barging into other people's affairs and countries, so, anything you say to me is not very meaningful. But, you HAVE done what I knew you would do and that is to display what all too many of your kind feel and in a manner that will demonstrate to other Canadians here the very attitudes I object to.


So, you have, in your usual manner, assisted me to make the points here that I wished to. The comments about my family, well, come to BC, repeat these and I shall teach you some traditional Canadian methods of dealing with a guttersnipe. "Pogue Mahone" and "mangez la merde".

I figure anyone should be able to fly in and hunt providing they fly the plane (or helicopter)themselves. If not, they can walk. If it's a real long walk, the rewards will be greater.
Of course, this is a silly thing to say. Not everyone can make the time to walk 60 miles.
Flying in to an area? OK. Spotting game from a plane or helicopter? Not OK.
I had a friend who was flown into an area and dropped off, alone, for ten days to hunt sheep. He nearly died (he was a diabetic and ran himself down on the climb)in collecting a pretty average ram. His sheep was much more impressive to me than one where the well-to-do foriegn hunter was flown in and led to the pre-spotted book ram. I admire hunters who rise to the challenges nature offers by their own efforts. I don't think too much of the others..
On the other hand, I understand that many would have to forgo hunting areas altogether if they couldn't pay their way in. Sometimes, that's as it should be.
I've guided some really enjoyable hunters from both sides of the border. Also some I was tempted to accidently bump off a cliff.
I do wish British Columbia would establish some US-style wilderness areas in that area south of Ft Nelson (Kechika-Gataga drainage) and ban motorized travel and access but strangely, my desires don't count for much!We'll continue to see fly-in hunts and, worse, jet boat access to these areas. I don't like it. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:the very attitudes I object to.

I can see how you would bring out the worst in people,and get a lot of "bad attitudes".
In fact,you do every year,and in your mind,its everyone else's fault.

Bill, the Kechika-Gataga is WEST of Fort Nelly, are you perhaps thinking of the Muskwa-Tuchodi-Gatho drainages?

I think that, with foreign hunting gone for good, in that region, there would not be greater pressure on the access and game numbers than is genuinely sustainable, this is one of my reasons behind seeking this ban.

The air access is quite easy to monitor and regulate and there are strips there now, maintained by the Canadian MOT and these plus tightly controlled boats, horses and human feet are sufficient for entry.

I am a bit nervous about more "wilderness protection" in view of what has just happened on the coast, with the extremist "greenies" influencing the MOE to ban bear hunting and the aborigines are right in there, as they would be up north.

My feeling at this juncture, is to be relatively quiet on the "wilderness" issue, per se, and to really hit hard on the resident's rights and allocation situation, as I think that SOME B.C. Cabinet Ministers will be more agreeable to this, than to locking up large areas of northern B.C.

I was among the very first advocates of the type of wilderness you espouse here, starting in 1961 and I stuck with it for many years. However, certain GOs are now allowed to build large luxury log lodges in these areas and yet, you or I would be arrested for cutting tent poles.....Beswick in "Height of the Rockies" is one and there are a number in the Muskwa-Tuchodi-Gatho and Kechika-Gataga areas.

IF, there are NO clients with big bux and "trophy" dreams, then, there will be NO economic basis for this travesty and WE can maybe use OUR wilderness and what it contains, as is our birthright. Something has to "give" here and my preference is to get rid of foreign hunting and fishing and thus eliminate the power of the GOABC.

You know, even without taking our daily limits, many of us with large 1950s families used to EAT from Kootenay Lake and it's tributaries. NOW, huge houseboats cruise these waters, full of foreign "trophy" anglers and WE cannot keep enough fish for a good fryup, let alone freeze or can any, as my grandmother did from the 1890s onward.

No More!!!

jb, no harm intended here but maybe you should back off a bit. IMO you're arguing un-important issues on this thread. To sit there and banter with someone your not likely to win against is frivelous.

I dont always agree with everything Dewey says, I dont have too, thats one of the benefits of a "public form", dont like what someone says or believes in?.....dont read it or follow it! But I have followed his meanderings on this forum as well as several others for a long while, and will definately agree on some of what he says, and I will damn well gurantee you, he is for sure passionate about his ancestory, his past, the present & the future. I got hand it to the man, he's taking a stand to alot of things that most others only bitch about without doing anythihng about, then wonder what happened when it happens. Bringing up his family is as quoted before "bush league".

Being from Alberta, I'm not all together sure, folks coming from anywhere where there isnt the abundance of game that we are fortunate enough to have in western Canada, can understand what Dewey (and belive me, there are thousands that feel the same about "our" hunting being reduced due to GO profits) and alot of others are going through.

Maybe have a look at what it takes for an Alberta, or BC resident to get drawn for the premium areas, whether it be Sheep, Elk, Mule deer, Antelope, Moose or what have you, alot of it is wrong, when someone with alot of $$$ can by-pass me, to hunt where I was born and raised!

I have only hunted in Canada one time.

It was for black bear near Caliper Lake.

Everybody in Canada was nice and I had a great trip. Shot a great bear and caught some great fish as well.

I see nothing wrong with using a plane or "copter" to get into camp.

I have hunted Alaska a few times and think their, not hunting the same day you fly, rule is a good idea.

I also do not think spotting game from the air should be legal.


However, outlawing non resident hunters is a little over the top IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
jb, no harm intended here but maybe you should back off a bit. IMO you're arguing un-important issues on this thread. To sit there and banter with someone your not likely to win against is frivelous.

I dont always agree with everything Dewey says, I dont have too, thats one of the benefits of a "public form", dont like what someone says or believes in?.....dont read it or follow it! But I have followed his meanderings on this forum as well as several others for a long while, and will definately agree on some of what he says, and I will damn well gurantee you, he is for sure passionate about his ancestory, his past, the present & the future. I got hand it to the man, he's taking a stand to alot of things that most others only bitch about without doing anythihng about, then wonder what happened when it happens. Bringing up his family is as quoted before "bush league".

Being from Alberta, I'm not all together sure, folks coming from anywhere where there isnt the abundance of game that we are fortunate enough to have in western Canada, can understand what Dewey (and belive me, there are thousands that feel the same about "our" hunting being reduced due to GO profits) and alot of others are going through.

Maybe have a look at what it takes for an Alberta, or BC resident to get drawn for the premium areas, whether it be Sheep, Elk, Mule deer, Antelope, Moose or what have you, alot of it is wrong, when someone with alot of $$$ can by-pass me, to hunt where I was born and raised!

This isnt the first go-round for dewey and I.Maybe not the last I have looked at the things he has brought up about the guide/ outfitters taking all the game,and quite frankly,he's correct.The figures I saw would piss me off as well.
However,for Dewey to keep blaming everybody else for his problem is wrong.The problem lies with his government allocating far too much of the resource to foreigners ,so they can get the money.IIRC,the number I saw was residents get only 12% of the yearly quota.
But like I told dewey,I dont disagree with his message,just the way he chooses to present it.He gets lit up on this subject by alot of people,for the same reason,he comes across as a loon because of the way he says it.He has even gone so far as to attack the aborigines (first nation)about their share.
IT MAY BE foreigners causing the trouble,but the actual problem is the BC government officials who have allowed this to happen,probably to line their pockets.
As far as his family goes,I wanted him to see what its like to have some one attacking him ,the way he does everyone else.

I guess I'm somwhere in the middle. A little non-resident cash comeing into northern B.C. is probably a good thing, however I have a problem with Outfitters thinking the area belongs to them and residents should stay out. I've heard many horror stories about guides being pricks to locals. I've hunted in the Muskwa/Prophit area some, allways stayed away from guides as I would with any other hunter I came across. Never had any problems in the bush but have heard of some nasty stuff, as in burning out camps. My only problem (a very minor one) was many years ago when a buddy and myself were near Toad River, unfamiliar with the area we were looking for a lookout that was not too far off the Alaska Hwy. We stopped another truck to ask directions, the guy was an outfitter with a couple of dudes in the truck. Don't want to name him. The guy sent us down a little road into what appeared to be another guides place. We were driveing a truck/camper with trailer and boat. Had to go all the way in and turn around in front of the guys place. Not a big deal really but shows the type of attatude we get up there. Good thing we didn't see him on the way out as I would have relieved him of some teeth.

Dewey, What needs to change is the ownership rules for GO's. All GO's should have to be a canadian and a BC resident. There are way to many owners that are American an European that have someone hold the licence for them so they can operate legally. The plane thing, is defiently a touchy subject, but in BC you can't use heli's for anything to do with hunting. I myself look forward to having foreigners come hunting with me in the winter as this helps pay my families bills. This goes to alot of assistant guides all through the province. As far as arrogant Americans, about 20% that I deal with tend to give the rest of them a bad name. But the other 80% are genuine good guys that I would sit around with, pop a top with and BS with until the next day and enjoy the company.

Dewey,
I always think of those watersheds as coming up from the south. Down the trench. No matter, I still favor the establishment of areas which exclude mechanized travel for any purpose. Regards, Bill.

all these non motorized areas do is create little guide only areas and as the average age of hunters increase access is important to the survival of hunting a lot of oldtimers have quit hunting because they are not allowed to access areas they traveled for years, we can't afford to lose these guys. I have owned horses and used them for hunting so i have a good idea whats involved and for a youg guy coming up what do you think it would cost to get a peice of property capable of sustaining a couple horses,in my area of the east kootenay would be in excess of a mil

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Maybe have a look at what it takes for an Alberta, or BC resident to get drawn for the premium areas, whether it be Sheep, Elk, Mule deer, Antelope, Moose or what have you, alot of it is wrong, when someone with alot of $$$ can by-pass me, to hunt where I was born and raised!

That is a travesty......it should be the other way around(if that 12% of permits for residents is accurate that is sickening). But what I don't get is your buddy screaming and hollering at everyone on here when he should be down at the government center or getting petitions signed from BC residents. Perhaps he should retake the Dale Carnegie course.

As someone else said, YOUR government passed the legislation....NOT OURS!

This is an international hunting forum and this is the "Canada" section, an appropriate venue for Canadians (and others) to discuss all aspects of Canadian hunting. We communicate here and this helps develop mutual assistance and policies concerning our hunting-related issues...one would expect this to be the case on a forum of this nature, IMHO.

Nobody is yelling at anyone here and I have been very courteous in my replies to your queries. The policies of our BC government ARE being challenged by our BC Wildlife Fed., as we speak and I am also writing individual pieces for publication in various media outlets.

So, your rather inchoate and baseless rant is not really relevant and the government WILL do as we BCers demand they do, sooner than you think. If, not, guys like me will begin total blockades of access by GOs and their foreign clients to the premier hunting areas.....do you really WANT to "hunt" under such conditions, I seriously doubt it.

As I posted, these campaigns take time, this one is quite new in terms of when it began to become necessary to ban foreign hunters and it will not happen instantly...BUT, pal, we ARE lobbying, we ARE absolutely committed and WE will have our way as the alternative is both obvious to government here and has succeeded in environmental situations a number of times in recent years.

So, you can rant along with that jackass "jb", I find it stimulating and amusing.

call me a jack ass all you want dewey,I'd be pissed ,too.
This is where I remember the 12% figure,not exactly correct,but another example of YOUR government stealing your resources.
I dont know why you would blame americans for taking your resources,when obviously,there is corruption in high places in BC.
Go gettem Dewey,just get pissed of at the right people this time,maybe you'll get somewhere. *********************************************************************************************
Privatization of Resource Puts Public Fishery in Jeopardy

Vancouver - "The decision of past federal Ministers of Fisheries to restrict the public fishery to a mere 12% of the total allowable catch (TAC) of halibut for the recreational fishery will result in significant reductions in limits and fishing time for anglers in 2009. This decision will have an immense adverse impact on the economic and social benefits derived from this fishery," B.C. Wildlife Federation president Mel Arnold announced today.

"Considering that the allocation of halibut to public fisheries in jurisdictions south and north of B.C. are 51% and 20% respectively, we can only surmise that, by restricting the public¹s allocation to only 12% of TAC, Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) is deliberately and capriciously trying to minimize, if not eliminate entirely, the public fishery for halibut in the Pacific region of Canada," Arnold warned.

"This is not a conservation issue", BCWF tidal water fisheries chairman Ken Franzen pointed out. "At the end of 2008, there will be almost 1 million pounds of unused halibut quota left in the water. This is an allocation issue and DFO is determined to provide ownership of 88% of the TAC to a small number of individuals. That such a move is contrary to several Supreme Court of Canada decisions appears to mean nothing to this federal government", Franzen continued. "The Supreme Court has ruled that the Minister and government lacked the legislative authority to enter into contracts with private interests for the exclusive harvest of a common property resource".

"Already this year, while commercial harvesters continue to fish, we have seen a mid-season closure of the public Halibut fishery despite assurances from former Fisheries Ministers that there would be no such closures," Franzen continued. "Based on the level of public harvest above 12% in 2008 and the inability, or refusal, of government to facilitate transfer of additional quota from the commercial fishery to offset this overage, we can expect reduced limits and fishing period in 2009. As previously noted, this action will have negative impacts on the B.C. economy and will also mean hardships and layoffs for many of the 7,700 people employed in businesses associated with the public fishery".

"The aspect of this fiasco that is hard to comprehend is why DFO did not lease individual quotas annually and thereby maintain public ownership of the resource and provide a source of revenue for improved Halibut management and harvest information. Instead, the former Ministers chose to give away 88% of the TAC in perpetuity to commercial harvesters, many of whom no longer fish their quota but lease it to other fishermen and for considerable sums in some cases," said Wayne Harling, long time member of the BCWF Fisheries Committee. "Requiring the public to buy or lease quota from these entrepreneurs who paid not one dime for their exclusive use of this public resource is truly bizarre. Even more bizarre, is the fact that DFO has now flatly rejected the only viable "market-based mechanism" identified by all sectors to acquire additional quota for the public fishery in accordance with Thibault¹s 2003 edict".

BCWF president Mel Arnold concluded by stating, "For all of these reasons and more, our Federation publicly calls upon newly-appointed Minister of Fisheries, the Hon. Gail Shea to acknowledge that the Thibault allocation policy is unreasonable and unworkable; to recognize the public¹s right to reasonable access to their resource; and to establish a viable allocation framework that will provide stable, predictable year round opportunities for anglers and sustainable economic benefits for those who are employed in the public fishery and for the coastal communities in which they live,"

Im a jack ass and not you? hardly.but again,I dont blame you for being pissed off.


Does Resident Hunter Priority Truly Exist?
Vancouver. The BC Wildlife Federation’s 30,000 plus members believe resident
hunters’ ability to access the outdoors, hunt and harvest wildlife, has been
abandoned over the past 25 years in favour of wealthy, non-resident hunters.
Wildlife in British Columbia is supposed to be managed based on the principles
of conservation first, First Nations food, social, and ceremonial second, resident
hunters third, and non-resident hunters last. The line that separates resident and
non-resident hunters has become nothing more than a blurry shade of grey. The
Ministry of Environment’s own Wildlife Allocation Policy which states resident
hunters have priority over non-residents has been ignored.
Resident hunters support a healthy wildlife population first recognizing and
respecting First Nations needs followed by maximizing resident hunter
opportunity and harvest. Over the past 25 years there has been a significant
shift by the Ministry of Environment to move to lottery (Limited Entry Hunting) and
trophy-style hunting opportunities increasing non-resident hunter numbers and
harvest all the while driving resident hunters from their mountains and forests.
From 1982-2006 resident hunter numbers plummeted 55% while non-resident
hunters increased by 70%. Thousands of resident hunters have simply given up,
hoping for a lottery ticket for the opportunity to go hunting in their own Province
for too long.
There is no tax for conservation: funding comes directly from hunting and angling
licenses, tags and thousands of volunteer hours, the overwhelming majority of
which come from resident hunters and anglers.
In some areas over abundant game populations are causing agricultural conflict
costing producers and BC taxpayers millions of dollars. These abundant game
populations have also resulted in increased highway collisions, raising ICBC
premiums of all drivers in the Province. These are the very same areas that
have seen increased restrictions placed on residents.
In 2007 the Ministry of Environment created a strategy to increase recruitment
and retention of resident hunters. The document that maps out the strategy has
34 recommendations of which only two have been adopted. The document
states: “In general, the Fish & Wildlife Branch should pursue a quantity over
quality direction in its management of deer, moose and elk.” To date there has
been little movement to support this recommendation or this strategy and
regulatory changes have often been in direct conflict with this recommendation.
Over the past 25 years resident hunters have been chased from their woods and
wildlife by decisions that favour non-residents. Residents want the opportunity to
enjoy their Province, hunt and harvest their wildlife and provide for their families.
Residents should have priority to their own resource.



Moose Management Inequities In the Kootenay
Region
During 1989 and 1990 moose calf recruitment in the Kootenay Region of BC fell to an
all-time low and the Fish and Wildlife Branch started to think about putting moose on a
Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) draw system
Up until 1990 non-resident interest in Kootenay moose was negligible but about this time
the Safari Club International re-classified moose in southern BC and Alberta as Shiras
Moose, despite very little biological evidence that supported the fact that moose in the
Kootenay Region were actually of the Shiras sub-species. However, this change
generated some non-resident interest and moose suddenly became a marketable item for
Kootenay Region guide-outfitters.
In 1991 LEH was announced and the allocation split, recognizing the previous low nonresident
harvest, was set at 94% for residents and 6% for non-residents. The LEH was
initially announced as a temporary measure that would be eliminated when the population
had recovered (yah right!). With the implementation of LEH resident moose hunting
participation fell from 2500 to 500 hunters and the annual resident hunter harvest fell
from 450 to 150 moose. This is very similar to what occurred in many other parts of BC
when LEH was implemented and Kootenay resident moose hunters today anxiously await
an immature (spike-fork) bull season being proposed by MOE for 2009.
As non-resident interest increased the moose quota assigned to guide-outfitters was
established at 15 moose divided amongst the outfitters of the Kootenay Region. At that
time three-year allocation periods were the norm and every three years guide-outfitters,
resident hunters represented by the BCWF, and MOE met to negotiate the allocation
percentages for the next three years.
In 2000 the MOE regional buearocracy allowed guide-outfitters in the Kootenay to stand
down from allocation negotiations and to provide input directly to MOE, bypassing
negotiations with residents. That move, although very annoying to resident hunters, was
a very successful and by 2003 moose quotas assigned to guide-outfitters by the MOE
Region had risen from the previous 15 to 127 non-resident tags. During the same period
resident LEH authorizations for residents declined even though the moose population was
making a significant recovery.
In 2004 negotiations on a new allocation policy and formula began. It was eventually
determined that too many moose were being allocated to non-residents and new
allocation percentages were calculated and roll-backs to non-resident quota began in
2007.
Today as a result of the new allocation policy non-resident quota has declined to 109
moose tags and resident LEH authorizations have increased modestly. Further
movement is expected in 2012 when allocation percentages are supposed to fall back to
80% for residents and 20% for non-residents. Guide-outfitters are currently lobbying
intensely to delay final implementation of the allocation policy, but resident hunters want
some of the opportunities back that they historically enjoyed, and some resentment has
developed regarding this Guide Outfitters Association of BC (GOABC) lobby effort and
their openly stated opposition to the proposed spike/fork moose season.
Below is a representation of the resident hunter numbers and moose harvests compared to
non-resident hunter numbers and non-resident moose harvests in Region 4 over a 30-year
period. Note the significant decline in resident moose hunting harvests and opportunities
since and the dramatic increase in non-resident harvests and opportunities since 1991.

Another factor contributing to the increase in non-resident allocation at the expense of
residents has been the Environmental Appeal Process whereby outfitters can appeal
reductions in quota but residents do not have the option of appeal. Successful appeals by
outfitters, has in several cases resulted in conservation-based decreases to the annual
allowable harvest being deducted entirely from the resident allocated share.
In light of non-resident hunting opportunities in other Pacific North Western jurisdictions
of about 10% for non-residents, BC resident hunters feel that 20% of the Kootenay
moose hunting opportunities being allocated to non-residents is very generous. Their
general feeling is that the MOE Region has shown a decided inclination to support the
commercial side of hunting at the expense of resident meat hunting opportunities. They
find the GOABC resistance to the allocation changes scheduled for 2012, and the
reluctance of MOE to accept that resident hunters have priority over non-residents, to be
extremely frustrating.
The reality is that moose are one of the primary meat hunting species for resident hunters
and they want their opportunity to hunt moose back. Currently non-resident moose
hunting activity in the Kootenay Region remains 7.3 times higher and moose harvest by
non-residents remains 10 times higher then traditional levels, while at the same time
residents must wait 10 to 15 years between moose hunts due to the high odds of being
drawn through the LEH system in BC. Resident hunters want fair consideration! The
BC Wildlife Federation, East Kootenay Region, welcomes and supports the allocation
changes proposed for 2012 and will be very disappointed if MOE does not implement
those changes as scheduled.
Submitted By:
East Kootenay Region of the BC Wildlife Federation

I have been to BC 4 times. I have not experienced the use of aircraft as you reference nor have I heard any of the other hunters speak of it. If it does go on, the individuals breaking the law should be prosecuted.

There are problem people in every country. Just because there are problem people from a particular country doesn't mean that everyone from that country is a problem. For example, I have had a drunk guide in BC. He was totally incompetent and lazy. He was so bad that I left and was home before the Outfitter found out there was a problem. That doesn't mean that all guides in BC are drunken useless bastards.

FYI, I have yet to kill a sheep in BC. I have managed 3 moose, 3 goats, 1 caribou and a grizzly. All hunted on foot or horseback. None spotted from a plane.

We have a worldwide economy now. A lot of money flows into your province from other locations. I doubt it will stop anytime soon just so you can hunt more locally.

Exactly my point LS, someone is benefitting from the influx of big $$$ hunters.......apparently it's not Angry Dewey(just relax, bud....I'd be angry too......I know you have a sense of humor, right?).

Dewey you better stop now as you are definately embarrassing yourself.

Hillbilly, which GO do you work for or are you a licencee?

Your concern for my potential embarrassment is truely touching, however, I have thick skin and I can deal with it.

I doubt I will come your way this year, but, have been in the Chilcotin in 2005, 2006 and 2007. You might know a drunken loudmouth from Gun Lake area who used to be a packer.....BM, ring any bells?

The local Indians up your way do not seem very keen on foreign hunting and they sure have a LOT of political "clout" now...until the Olympics are finished and we start paying the HUGE bill for that boondoggle.

So, don't worry about me, I survived 20+ years of active firefighting, decades of promoting wilderness parks in logger's pubs and I am still here...and, bud, I am just getting "warmed up". Cheers!

The ...money that flows into...BC, is a TINY amount compared with what we lost due to the US dirty dealing on "softwood", but, this is NOT about money.

BCers, like me, simply do NOT want Americans and most other non-Canucks hunting and fishing here, period. We DO NOT have to "justify" our attitude, this is OUR country.

As it happens, "jb" finally got something right and the disgraceful situation in the Kootenays is ONLY ONE such problem of it's type in B.C. The salmonoid situation is a Dominion Government responsibility and has nothing to do with the provincial government.

The REAL benefit in economic terms, to BCers from Americans killing our game is miniscule and most profits flow south to the Yankee "owners" of various concessions. So, that point is invalid, not that it matters, as again, this is NOT about money.

I DO have a sense of humour, but, my sense of Canadian honour is FAR more developed and important to me. So, we will end this travesty of someone from, for example, Florida, killing that many B.C. animals....HOW MUCH MEAT did you take home and eat?

Dewey I understand your fustration but the big problem is with the guys we pay and not the guys that pay. The natives kill more and and waste more meat then all the Americans and Europeans combined. You should see the wide spred waste, left by natives throughout the chilcotin, in one so called gathering near Chilko Lake 36 does were shot near the road and only their backstraps taken. Another spot along highway 20 a new logging road was put in during the winter of 04 or 05 before the road was completed 17 moose were left to dead with in sight of the road only the ones that dropped on the road was taken. In BC I feel we have long and generous seasons, which on the most part allow a decent hunter to fill his freezer and his wall if he so choses. Should there be changes, YES, most definately, should we ban foriegn hunters definately not. And no I am not a liscenee but an assistant guide who subcontracts out the preditor hunting for a couple different outfitters in the area. Maybe one day we will have to get together and raise the roof with a good discussion over the politics of the country.

Well,Dewey,I have to say most of the gripes you have come from the actions of your own government,not from foreigners who come to your country to spend money.

The softwood lumber dispute is actually a number of disputes which have gone on for over 20 years between the United States and Canada. The heart of the softwood lumber dispute is the claim of the United States that Canada is unfairly subsidizing Canadian lumber production. The Canadians insist that they are doing no such thing. The Softwood Lumber Dispute - Private vs. Public Ownership In the United States, the majority of the softwood lumber harvested is from privately owned land. This is not the case in Canada, where most of the lumber harvested comes from Crown land. That is land owned by the federal or a provincial government . The way Canadian governments and American ones set the price they charge corporations to harvest this land is quite different and is the basis for the softwood lumber dispute. In the United States, logging rights are sold by using a competitive auction. In Canada stumpage fees are set by the government. These stumpage fees, which are based on a number of factors such as labor and transportation costs, tend to be significantly lower than the prices which come out of the U.S. auctions. The American government claims that these low prices constitute a subsidy to Canadian producers. The softwood lumber dispute stems from these prices and the actions the American government has taken in response.