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Quote: It's pretty obvious here who is an uninformed fool. What it boils down to is Kutenay had the snot kicked out of him by an "injun" and hasn't been able to look in the mirror since. Time to grow up, and get a grasp on reality. Your behaviour on this thread fits every definition of the word "Troll". Regards, Doc Sharptail | ||
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Quote: If they were "Armed", this blockade would be national news, which it isn't, and has not been. Regards, Doc Sharptail | |||
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Quote:Quote: Doc A 30-30 laying on the seat of an open Pick-up, a rifle propped up against a bumper in plain sight. A rifle doesn't have to be in someones hand as they approach your vehicle for them to be armed. It doesn't make the national news because the Government doesn't want it to. Not Politically Correct don't you know. It sure does make the local news though.  | |||
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Once again, your ignorance and very obvious prejudice show through your baseless remarks; are you a radical Aborigine or simply an idiot? The incident that I refered to took place after midnight on June 6, 1991 at Athabaska Tower, Hinton Ranger District, Hinton, AB. I sudued the 6'4" drunken Aboriginal lout without violence and reported his behaviour to the RCMP, who have an incident report which is available for public scrutiny. Check it out, no Indian has ever beaten me up, although a few drunken bullies have tried. BTW, the RCMP arrested and charged this whacko about two weeks later, when he drove his 4x4 into the Hinton Elementary School playground during recess, thereby endangering dozens of little kids, Aboriginal and "white" included. This again, can be easily checked, but, you won't bother, since you already know everything. As to having a grasp on reality, your posts indicate that your mental condition precludes even the slightest possibility of your ever attaining that state. Go and play " Agricultural Bovine Exploiters and Suffering First Nation Victims" with your fellow N.D.P. politically correct social parasites, your comments are as empty as their rhetoric. BTW, the term "injun" is highly offensive and "racist", it seems to me that we have a "pot, kettle, black" type of poster; given your location, maybe your're a tax funded "legal advisor" to " The Warrors", that gang of criminal Aborigines that you have in Manitoba? | |||
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Quote: Yeah, right. Wasting a few more unarmed Indians is really going to solve the problem. I don't buy it, not for two seconds. You obviously have a racial problem with Indians- this is the third posting of this nature I've seen from you on this forum. If you've got such a problem with this take it to your local newspaper editor, or better yet, take it to the Indians at the blockade line. Postings of this nature here prove, and accomplish nothing. While we are at it, lets get all the other interest groups off the govt. tit, especially the unemployed drawing pogey, and what else- oh yeah- people on welfare too- let's cut 'em all off, white or red... single mothers and little old ladies with no pension  Regards, Doc Sharptail | |||
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Hey Doc, I am with kutenay, I am sick and tired of the racism towards us from the Indians. Daryl | |||
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I do not have a racial problem with anyone, I am even patient with idiots who deliberately distort my posts to advance their own insupportable "leftlib" agenda. I have actually been involved in some of these problems while an employee of the Alberta Forest Service, working alone in the bush, far from assistance. My only crime, according to the loudmouth Aboriginal who accosted me and threatened my life with no provocation, was that I was a "fuckin' white punk". I have worked with Aboriginal people in B.C., the NWT, Alberta and Ontario, in Forestry; I also dated a Tshimsian Chief's daughter here in Vancouver and we parted with mutual affection and respect. So, your comments are baseless as well as being foolish and typical of the sort of ignorance that started this whole mess. Aboriginals on many, if not most,of these blockades are in fact armed to the teeth, Oka and Gustafson Lake being two incidents where they were using assault weapons. The R.C.M.P. are not trained or equipped to deal with this as the Gustafson Lake situation demonstrated, consequently, the JTF2 lads are the proper way to deal with it. BTW, the ringleader there, an Aboriginal with a criminal record, one "Wolverine" frequently referred to the then Attorney-General of B.C., Ujjal Singh Dosanjh, as a "Paki"....who is a racist???? Your comments concerning welfare, employment benefits and single mothers are irrelevant to the discussion and the sort of co-opting remarks frequently made by those whose knowledge of a given situation is inadequate to sustain rational debate. As it happens, I volunteered as a "welfare advocate" during my college years, especially for elderly Doukhobour people who had little formal education; I am a very strong supporter of social programns for people in genuine need. I do not believe in special rights for anyone and I do not think blockades of legal thoroughfares are acceptable, under any circumstances. While you have every right to your version of reality, I suggest that you restrict your remarks to situations that you actually know something about; then, you will not make a fool of yourself as you did with this ridiculous post. | |||
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Quote: Doc Why do you think they are unarmed? | |||
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Because they say they are, that's why. A few years ago an "unarmed" native protester was shot by police after the natives occupied the military base at Ipperwash, Ontario. An OPP sergeant was later convicted of criminal negligence causing death, in that he was found responsible for his officers opening fire when a bus full of supposedly "unarmed" protesters rammed a police barricade. In Ontario we have the Special Investigations Unit (SIU), which investigates police involvement in death or serious injury. They were called in to investigate this shooting. Funny thing about that whole incident was that the natives refused to let the SIU on the site to investigate until 2 WEEKS after the shooting!!!!! During this time, they had access to miles and miles of beach and boats, where they could easily either bury the guns, or spirit them off to some other place. It didn't matter that police observed protesters carrying guns in plain view. It didn't matter that at every other blockade of this type, they've been armed. It only matters that the SIU didn't find any guns and the natives say they didn't have any. So, a veteran cop had his career destroyed and got hung out to dry. Oh, well, I guess it's better than getting killed, like that cop with the Quebec Surete who was killed at Kanetsetake a few years ago, for which no one was ever prosecuted!!! | |||
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Guys As a Brit shortly on his way across to hunt northern Alberta - this kind of post is a little concerning. It follows on the heels of a Norwegian colleague stating that hunters cars had been burned by 'Indians' near the Wood Bison Park. He also mentioned an agressive attitude towards him when out snowmobiling and encountered some form of camp. Whats the situation? Are there major problems with Indian/hunter conflicts being the norm? Am I likely to have to worry about hunting then coming back to a burned out car........in minus 15-20 degrees? Would be interested to know of any incidents north of High Level / Peace river. Rgds Ian | |||
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I cannot say for sure, but, the Indians in this country are getting more violent and aggressive all the time. I would suggest trying to find private property to park on and NOT hunting alone; if threatened, do not back down as most of them are loudmouthed cowards who are all bullshit and no guts.However, they attack in packs, so, be careful. As to police officers being shot, remember Const. Strongquill a couple of years ago? He was one of them, but, they gunned him down, anyway. | |||
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Quote: It is just this kind of mentality that keeps this kind of thing going. I'm with Doc on this one. You complain about the government won't do anything. Who do you think the government is? The people, you, me, Doc, kutenay and all the others, we're the government. If you don't get involved by the methods laid down by our ancestors, what kind of lawless society do you want to live in? There's a right way and a wrong way of doing things and criminally is not the answer. Do you really want to be a criminal with all that entails? Don't sit on your ass and moan about it, get involved and stay involved in the political process. That's what it's there for, use it and use it often. | |||
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The Government of the Dominion of Canada is elected by thhe voters of Quebec, Ontario and, to a lesser extent, the Maritime Provinces. The elections are always decided BEFORE western Canada even goes to the polls and we do not have a system in which citizens voices are heard, unless said voices echo the party line of the governing elite, who even change party allegiance and membership to keep power, Scott the bumboy Brison, Keith the turncoat martin and Jean curlytops Charest, among many others. The fact is that the country is governed by the Prime Minister's Office, not by elected Parliamentarians and certainly not by the people at large. Canada has been a corporate oligarchy since the earliest days, consider the HBC, the CPR and so forth. Freedom in this country is an illusion, it always has been and the chimera of freedoms in which we so trustingly put our faith is being ripped to shreds at an ever-increasing rate; Bill C-68, the "hate speech" legislation, human rights bureaucracies and the racism practiced against native-born, "white" Canadians in government hiring practices are some examples of this. The anger shown in CampX's post is regretable, but, what other reaction can be expected from Canadians who feel used, discriminated against and cheated out of what is OUR birthright every bit as much as it is that of the Aboriginals. Sure, it would be great if the system worked, but, it doesn't and hasn't for decades, so violence may well be the result of the racist actions of the Indians and the spinelessness of the politicians. I will NOT be accosted, threatened, harassed or injured by ANYONE and if I have to use deadly force to protect myself, I shall do so, period. BTW, I think that ONE action by the JTF2 commandos, which does not have to result in death for anyone, would stop this whole thing for good; better that than the inevitable bloodbath that is going to be the result of one of these blockades and probably sooner rather than later. | |||
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I can tell you've never been involved in the process so I won't waste my time trying to convince you. Your last paragraph is pretty telling though. Perhaps you and Camp X can share a cell someday. Are you foolish enough to think that you and a few other misguided people are the first ones to be frustrated by the system? Your willingness to forego the process that you claim doesn't exist and pull the trigger as the solution is the real threat to gun ownership in this country. And quite frankly I find that offensive. | |||
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Perhaps the rcmp should set up bockades a mile or so on each side of the native blockades and cut off their supply of food and water until they agree to leave.The rcmp would have just cause to arrest anyone trying to force their way through a police barricade.If the rcmp don't have the required firepower,the military could be available to back them up. | |||
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Much of what Kutney said is as close to reality as it gets in print.But there is a lot of resentment,both sides.You don't get that with out a lot of reasons. These blockades started because Dept. of Fisheries screw-upped to the point where a run of salmon face extintion,those blockading weren't getting any. Their brothers on the coast had got them first.A lower survival rate didn't help,either. We got here because of the reserve system and womens aux. rasism,the church going ones were the very worst. Even if we got rid of the reserves and rasism,I am not sure that living our life style would be such a bargain  | |||
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Doc and Cobra, so how do you think we should put an end to this foolishness? It seems the legal channels you speak about are not working and it dosen't appear that they ever will. Are you content that this keeps on going whenever the aboriginals have a whim to blockade? Maybe it dosen't immediatly affect you so you don't care? So you think it's ok that one group can blocade roads and intimidate another group with threats, violence and weapons. You advocate that the group they are trying to intimidate should just write another letter to their MP which falls on deaf ears, turn the other cheek? Follow legal channels?? What legal channel might that be? Seems they've all been exhausted because nothing has changed in a couple generations of legal channeling. Funny how the group that blocades illegally are imune to the law while the blocaded are charged with the full force of the law should they resist an illegal act. Isn't this contrary to what is right? Those having their rights infringed upon are criminalized and the party denying those rights have free rein to illegally infringe upon others with impunity. How is anything going to be resolved with such a system? Is this the political process your refering to. I say it's political bullshit. I believe this must be brought to a head to force the government to deal with it. The sooner the better. It has gone on far too long and if it takes violence to get the ball rolling, so be it. Freedom and revolution go hand in hand. | |||
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Quote: If that is the case why don't the natives work it out amongst themselves.If the natives can't even reach an agreement amongst themselves how do they expect to deal with the non native people.Perhaps it is just easier to blame others for their problems. | |||
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I first became involved in the political process in Canada as a teenager and was writing letters to the MP for Kootenay West concerning gun control nearly forty years ago. If, in your wisdom, you can bother to read the Criminal Code of Canada, you will see that my comments are in fact grounded in law, I stated that I would use deadly force to protect myself, a right codified in Canadian laws and in the British laws from which they are derived. It is unfortunate that you find my comments offensive, but, the clear difference between you and I is that I actually have had considerable experience working with Aboriginal peoples and, ironicly, in enforcing various Provincial and some Federal statutes. Your comments demonstrate an ignorance and a desire to vilify others that indicate to me that you may well have an ulterior motive. I did not say that the process does not exist, simply that the P.M.O. controls said process. Your attempt to co-opt the discussion by misrepresenting what I said are an indication of your lack of both integrity and political savvy. What are you, a "worker" in some "Aboriginal Affairs" bureaucracy who may lose a tax funded non-job and then must find a real job, for the first time? | |||
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Actually the (lack of) Justice system and the Govt. is working pretty much the way they want it too. Just look at yourselves. You guys are so busy argueing between yourselves that you can't come to an agreement and fix the real problem,The Elected Dictatorship!  Divide and conquer has worked for the British Military for a couple of hundred years and it still works here. derf | |||
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Having been across Canada enroute to Alaska in 1967 and returning in 1970 and not back since,I am not aware of the situation. I was in New Mexico one time and stopped beside the road so that my family could view a deer we spotted. We were in the car just watching--I had no gun. An Indian in an old pickup came driving up and told us to move on--it was Indian land. This was a state highway running through the Mescalaro Apache Reservation. I left without further incident ,but it sure left a bad tatste. This was in the United States and I am a citizen. The Indians don't maintain that highway. I always heard to the victor goes the spoils---did the Indians defeat us? In my state (texas)gambling is not legal,but the Indians can have public casinos on their land. When they come onto non Indian land there are no restrictions against them. They seem to have it both ways. Oh,I said Indians--I think now we should say Native Americans. | |||
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Quote: I hope you know what you're doing, pull the trigger on an Indian and see what happens. Quote: Firstly, I did not find your comments offensive. Your willingness to shoot first as a solution thereby threatening gun ownership is what I find offensive. You've got experience working with Indians you say. I have been around them my entire life. I've gone to school with them, played with them, worked with them, dated them, drank with them and done business with them. I grew up next to the Six Nations Reserve and still live there. Quote: I've been in heavy equipment my whole working life, almost forty years. By the way, I'm a registered member of my party and I'm very involved, are you? | |||
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Quote: Derf - You are exactly right. | |||
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I have NEVER stated that I would shoot first, what a stupid and typically exaggerated comment; again, your interest very obviously lies in promoting discord and attempting to co-opt the discussion. This is cheap political chicanery of the sort one associates with Sheila "Tequila" Copps or Svend the Sodomite Robinson. Your attempts to portray me and CampX as reckless gunslingers are exactly the sort of central Canadian snottiness that has precipitated the desire for western Canadian separation; these comments are baseless and ludicrous. Your political affiliations or mine are irrelevant to my original points that there should be NO special treatment for anyone in Canada, based on race or any other criteria and that I will not tolerate any harassment or attacks upon my person. You obviously want to argue, rather than discuss or debate, I have no time for such immature antics. Derf, most of us that have been discussing this question are not arguing and I do not think that debate as to the proper approach to the entire question of Aboriginal "rights" is a factor in preventing the development of a genuinely equitable society in Canada. Some posters are very pissed off and are ready to take forceful action, that's unfortunate but understandable. I honestly think that there is not enough discussion in Canada as to the various changes that have taken place since Trudeau began his destructive policies. I notice that most of us seem to agree that NOBODY should have special rights or be allowed to blockade highways. | |||
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I'm not the one backtracking son. I think Doc had you pegged right. That's it for me, I've said my piece. | |||
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I am not your "son" and I am not "backtracking" in any respect; your opinion of me is as puerile as the other foolish comments you have made. I am glad that you will no longer encumber the discussion on this thread with your comments; now, those of us who want to debate this issue can get on with it. It's very easy to attempt to dismiss a person's legitimate concerns as racially motivated and thus discredit a political position which you cannot factually refute. To actually promote genuine justice and social equality is a bit more difficult, as you have just demonstrated. | |||
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Perhaps the rcmp should set up bockades a mile or so on each side of the native blockades and cut off their supply of food and water until they agree to leave. I couldn't agree with Stubblejumper more. If we can't enter;they should not be able to leave."Any grocery stores behind that blockade? Guess you had better start exercising your native rights and get hunting then!!"  | |||
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I wonder how many of the posters on this thread realize that Aboriginals also have special privileges with respect to firearms ownership? All they need to get a P.A.L. is a note from their Chief saying that they are good to go and they are issued a P.A.L. There was an incident in the north, some time ago, where the local R.C.M.P. officers did not wish to issue an F.A.C to a local Indian who had been convicted of Manslaughter. He put up the usual cry of "racism" and the local chief came up with a note recommending that he get his permit....he got it, of course, because hunting with a rifle is part of his "tradition".......... I quite honestly expect that this entire situation is going to erupt into a shooting war and it is the fault of the radical Indians, most of who are actually of part European ancestry and the politicians who are using this to get further control over the population at large. I, for one, am going to become much more active in the B.C.W.F. and will also publicly advocate an end to all "treaties" and special rights. If the Indians do not have to obey "Whitey's" laws, except when said laws favour them, I see no reason to honour treaties...seems fair to me. | |||
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I will be traveling from the USA to Alaska next fall to go Brown Bear and Moose hunting is there any areas that I need to be careful of on my way to Alaska? | |||
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The rumor on the street is that Canada treats the Native Americans better than the good ol U.S of A. The Nez Pierce were making tracks towards Canada when they were intercepted not to far from the border in the late 1800's. For the most part native Americans are hard workers as long as you keep booze away from them. A.I.M they are cityfied Indians they do not have a clue what life is like on the Reservations. Most of the time they are ran off reservations cause they are to damn radical for the average Native American. Most of the Native Americans don't relize how good they got it but sometimes you can't tell by the way they live. Free medical all the grants in the world to go to college. But most of the time they are scarred of leaving the reservation. I have friends back home the farthest they have been away from home in the last 10 years is going to Portland a 150 mile trip. So most of the time they very uninformed they live a isolated life. Is this what our government wants maybe, is that what the tribal government wants probably. The less educated a person is, they tend to be more easily manipulated and they usually don't have clue what is happening in the world or there home state. This is my two cents Like I said before I'm a enrolled Native American. | |||
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I prefer Indian hell they didn't start using Native American until several years ago. But if you want to know I prefer American cause that is what I am. I'm proud of my heritage but it pisses me off to see Native Americans to piss there life away. They are quick to blame everyone else but all they need to do is look in the mirror. | |||
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Quote: Don't believe everything you hear. I spent the early part of my life on a reserve in BC. Most of my friends then and some still today are First Nation. Now I live on an 'Urban' Reservation outside Seattle. All the same problems, all the same complaints. Their is not one shred of difference between the two places. I take that back, the local Tribe is making millions on gambling and will soon be able to buy the whole State back. | |||
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Shiftless welfare bums are welfare bums, doesn't matter what country they are in. | |||
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323, I think you hit the nail on the head by saying your American first...We see the same here in the UK in that too many people place the cultural/ethnic back ground before thier nationality and that is very devisive. The racial equality people scream and shout how everybody should be equal, but then want special treatment for "minorities". Regards, Pete | |||
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How true and how sad! I believe that there is one "race", the human race and that, to me, is that. THIS, not desire for extra personal material wealth or special privilege is at the very core of my philosophy of life and is why I object so strongly to the blockades that initiated this thread. I will quite bluntly say that no humans exist for whom I have greater respect than men like 323, who in spite of the injustices done to his ethnic group, treats all of us as friends and equals. One of Pete's greatest countrymen wrote nearly 400 yrs. ago....therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee..... Rev. John Donne, once a senior prelate at St. Paul's Cathedral, Londontowne. | |||
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Pete I dont think the IN-Laws would go for that one. | |||
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Quote: I'm curious about this rich tribe in Washington. Are they like the natives here? Where only the top few get and keep the money? | |||
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The Tribe, The Muckleshoots, own the largest Casino North of Reno NV. They just finished a 6 story parking garage. They also own an outdoor, covered Performing Arts Center. It happens to face my house, which is 6 miles away across a river. On Saturday Nights the concerts are clearly discernable and, depending on the artists, sometimes, enjoyable. Because this is a Reservation the Tribe can build anything, anywhere they choose without regards to Zoning or local building codes. Most of the property has been sold to non-tribal members over the 150 years the Reservation has existed but the boundaries are still in place. Any land owned by a Tribal Member or re-purchased by a Tribal Member becomes 'Indian Land'. The laws of the State do not apply. Courts are Indian Courts, Police are Indian Police. A dispute with a Tribal Member goes to Indian Court. A dispute between non tribal members goes to State Court. The money is used for improvements to the Reservation and invested in money making business's. They have established some schools and a Business College for members. They have no need for interest free loans to members as the Federal Gavernment does that. The Tribal Council is paid handsomely for their time and all Tribal Employees recieve prevailing wage or above. They seem to have a viable plan for improving their members but like Reservations and Reserves everywhere their is a problem with laziness (why work when the government will give you more money than you can earn) and alcholism. Their problem isn't with not enough jobs but with finding enough Tribal members to fill the jobs that are there. Many non Indians work to keep the thing together. | |||
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